mn might be allowing scopes for muzzleloader season?

[bigbucks]

I'm with you, I'll hunt any deer season available, with whatever they let me hunt with. I'll go so far as to say I won't put a scope on my current spear...

If they let me use a scope on my muzzleloader I will if they don't I won't. Most of the time muzzy season is just another chance to get out & another chance for the state to get another $26 from me. I'd probably hunt a couple more times with the bow instead of with the muzzy. I've killed a lot of deer, but not that many with the muzzy or late season archery. Most of the time at that time of year for me it's about having a day that's pretty decent out & having the time to go. That usually amounts to a couple of weekend evenings & maybe one morning hunt. I'm not totally hunted out at that point, but I'm getting close.

Anybody else often get sick the first week of December because you've just plain hunted too long & too hard most of the month of November?

[Wanderer]

If they do legalize them you should probably give them a try. I bet you will flinch less with a spear or slingshot than you do with your rifle.

Got that under control - you just watch - I shoot a .243 with the best of em!

[Musky Buck]

You know it Rodd, ill indeed. I think I figured out why I'm so anti baiting,scopes on muzzy, all the opportunity, sorta pro-apr etc. I don't want to see a buck lottery come about, after shelling out so many thousands to own land to deer hunt, it's something I don't want to see and I'm still shelling it out. I hear ya Rodd, it took my 29th hunt with gun in hand to see a shootable buck on Dec. 12th, minus-8, 23 wind chill, 7 deer in the group, down he went, what a miracle that snowstorm line was like 15 miles away or I wouldn't have gone out. Persistence paid off, glad the old school musket gun fired, set a county record for field dressing, man it was cold.

[jigglestick]

I wonder how many muzzle loader hunters would give it up if they banned modern muzzle loaders? I bet there would be plenty who would say they would still go but then not.

my guess is it would be a significant decline.

I'm glad I can hunt all seasons, and if i had to choose one, it would be easy choice for me. archery all the way.

now that pop is gone, the "glue" of our hunting camp has become less sticky. that is a bummer.

still standing on a NO vote for scopes...just for the record.

[Wanderer]

I wonder how many muzzle loader hunters would give it up if they banned modern muzzle loaders?

Good question. But once you give it, it's almost impossible to take it back.

[bowhunternw]

So you guys that want it use muzzleloader as a backup plan. If you didn't get your deer in the firearms season, and you want scopes to make it easier to harvest a deer. If you are truly just using it to get out in the woods one last time, why do you care. Maybe it won't change much, but I still have not heard a good argument for the use of scopes. It will not leave less injured deer in the woods. People will always push the limits of their skills. Meaning that you felt comfortable with 70 without scope but would shoot 100 if given the oppurtunity, and with a scope felt comfortable with 150 but would lob one up to 200. I also agree that once given it is hard to take away. I have hunted muzzleloader before so it is not that I am against the season, I just see it as a low success season that you have to work at to get a deer. And yes if they want to have gunpowder powered arrows with scopes for archery, I am against that as well.

[PFUNK]

So you guys that want it use muzzleloader as a backup plan. If you didn't get your deer in the firearms season, and you want scopes to make it easier to harvest a deer. If you are truly just using it to get out in the woods one last time, why do you care. Maybe it won't change much, but I still have not heard a good argument for the use of scopes. It will not leave less injured deer in the woods. People will always push the limits of their skills. Meaning that you felt comfortable with 70 without scope but would shoot 100 if given the oppurtunity, and with a scope felt comfortable with 150 but would lob one up to 200. I also agree that once given it is hard to take away. I have hunted muzzleloader before so it is not that I am against the season, I just see it as a low success season that you have to work at to get a deer. And yes if they want to have gunpowder powered arrows with scopes for archery, I am against that as well.

And I have yet to hear a good argument for why they shouldn't be legal. So you think that legalizing scopes would change it from being a low success season where you have to work for your deer? How so?

I would like to hear your opinion on why scopes should remain illegal? What would be the consequences of legalizing them? I shared my thoughts a few posts earlier but no one has really addressed them and pointed out in what ways I may be missing something. If I am, I would love to hear it because it is obviously something I haven't considered yet and may change my opinion on the subject. But as of now, I have not yet heard why scopes would be a bad thing. I just don't see why it is any skin off your back if i want to use a scope! If you don't want to use it then don't.

As far as muzzleloader being a backup plan and wanting scopes to be legalized to make it easier to harvest a deer... I have stated before that I would not mind if they made a hunter choose between muzzleloader and firearms season. If they did, I may hunt firearms one year and muzzleloader the next just to change it up from time to time. I don't want scopes legal to make it easier for me to harvest a deer, because to be 100% honest with you, I don't feel like it is any easier with a scope. Like others have pointed out, using scopes during regular firearms is perfectly legal. I have taken my smoke pole out with the scope mounted during regular firearms before and guess what... it didn't feel like I was at staples pressing the EASY button. I still seemed to have that same human stink to me that sent the deer running the other way waving the white flag, and I couldn't get up and do jumping jacks in my tree stand without being spotted. I still liked knowing, however, that if I played all of my cards right and got a crack at a deer, I could shoot a little better with that scope on than without it. Just failing to see why it bothers you if I am in the next woods over from you, sitting in the same 0 degree weather, fighting the same 25 mph December wind, hunting the same deer that are now on edge from being pounded at for the last month, but I have a scope on my gun and you don't. How is my being there with my scope affecting your hunt?

[lakevet]

As far as muzzleloader being a backup plan and wanting scopes to be legalized to make it easier to harvest a deer..

I don't want scopes legal to make it easier for me to harvest a deer, because to be 100% honest with you, I don't feel like it is any easier with a scope.

I still liked knowing, however, that if I played all of my cards right and got a crack at a deer, I could shoot a little better with that scope on than without it.

You said it yourself, "I still liked knowing...........I could shoot a little better with that scope on than without it."

No offense but you just want to make it easier. Even if just a little easier. Like being able to extend range out from 80 yards to 150 yards for a lot of hunters.

The season being a difficult challenge that requires one to hunt as the average hunter had to 150 yrs ago was the original intent of the season, AND the reason the DNR allowed a season in the first place.

The major damage done to the season was allowing regular firearms season hunters hunt muzzy also. Before that it had ran smoothly for years with no impact on any of the other hunting seasons. We just happily cruised along under everyone's radar. Anyone could have joined us.......they just had to give up the much easier modern firearm rut hunt.....which the vast majority didn't even begin to consider doing. It was a self regulating season that had built in checks and balances that worked very well. The muzzy hunters of that season would never dream of scopes, and the scope issue never would have been anywhere on the radar screen. Thus I agree strongly with you that we need to return to hunters choose a season, especially in lottery areas/ one deer areas. However, the DNR would have to give up a very large chunk of change from license sales first. And would rather ban a muzzy kid from shooting their first deer if it is a doe.....but gladly collect money from more license sales for the buck only baby boomer hunter buying every deer license possible.

Anyone hear what the current status is on scope issue at the capital?

lakevet

[PFUNK]

You said it yourself, "I still liked knowing...........I could shoot a little better with that scope on than without it."

No offense but you just want to make it easier. Even if just a little easier. Like being able to extend range out from 80 yards to 150 yards for a lot of hunters.

The season being a difficult challenge that requires one to hunt as the average hunter had to 150 yrs ago was the original intent of the season, AND the reason the DNR allowed a season in the first place.

The major damage done to the season was allowing regular firearms season hunters hunt muzzy also. Before that it had ran smoothly for years with no impact on any of the other hunting seasons. We just happily cruised along under everyone's radar. Anyone could have joined us.......they just had to give up the much easier modern firearm rut hunt.....which the vast majority didn't even begin to consider doing. It was a self regulating season that had built in checks and balances that worked very well. The muzzy hunters of that season would never dream of scopes, and the scope issue never would have been anywhere on the radar screen. Thus I agree strongly with you that we need to return to hunters choose a season, especially in lottery areas/ one deer areas. However, the DNR would have to give up a very large chunk of change from license sales first. And would rather ban a muzzy kid from shooting their first deer if it is a doe.....but gladly collect money from more license sales for the buck only baby boomer hunter buying every deer license possible.

Anyone hear what the current status is on scope issue at the capital?

lakevet

To say that this season requires one to hunt like someone did 150 years ago would be a huge stretch. There are countless pieces of gear that are available to muzzleloader hunters now, other than scopes, that were not used "back then". Do you leave all of those at home too? Or do you pick and choose the modern amenities you want to incorporate into your hunts, and then feel that your choices of what "should" be used should be enforced upon others by law?

Of course I think I can shoot better with a scope on than I can without it. I don't want the scope to make my hunt easier... I don't know how many times I have stated what I think makes a hunt easier, but it sure isn't the scope. The only way I think you can look at a scope as making a hunt easier is by its ability to increase the hunters effective range. For some, a scope may do this... so call that easier if you want. I hunt woodlands and have rarely had the opportunity to take a shot greater than 100 yards, most being within 75. I like the fact that a scope gives a shooter a clear, unobstructed sight window. The sights on my muzzleloader are bulky, and even at those ranges can easily cover most of the vitals. A scope allows me to place my shot a little more accurately within the kill zone so that I don't make a marginal shot. Would I make an effective kill shot at those ranges with open sights?... far more often than not YES. Still, I know that I am going to end up making a poor shot sooner than later with the open sights compared to if I was using a scope. There is always human error involved, and I think, at least for myself, a scope cuts it down some. Does it increase my range from 80 to 150 yards? Nope. I still zero my scope at 75 yards. I still have thick timber keeping my range in check. Call it easier.. call it what you want. Should we ban the use of shooting sticks and bipods now too? I mean, they surely make me a little steadier as well putting me at an unfair advantage. Like you said, make a hunter pick a season. Thats the law that would actually do something, not the IMO pointless one keeping john doe from using a scope.

Like I asked in my previous post, how would my presence in the next woods over from you affect your hunt if I had a scope and you didn't?

[fr0sty]

Just curious what damage did allowing regular firearms hunters to also muzzy hunt do? I don't think it's damage to the deer population, because muzzy harvest is still lower than archery.

I think it only comes down to more people in the woods during muzzy season. That jump in numbers came with the modern inlines.

The major damage done to the season was allowing regular firearms season hunters hunt muzzy also. Before that it had ran smoothly for years with no impact on any of the other hunting seasons. We just happily cruised along under everyone's radar. Anyone could have joined us.......

lakevet

[jigglestick]

"I like the fact that a scope gives a shooter a clear, unobstructed sight window. The sights on my muzzleloader are bulky, and even at those ranges can easily cover most of the vitals. A scope allows me to place my shot a little more accurately within the kill zone so that I don't make a marginal shot."

I have a big problem with that line of thinking.

if you think your sights or skills create a marginal shot, then hone your skills, decrease the distance to your target.

let me ask you, would you still hunt the muzzle loader season if it was all traditional?

in fact that is a good across the board question, and quite possibly, the answer to why the DNR would never do such a season.

How many muzzle loader season hunters would no longer hunt if modern muzzle loaders were no longer allowed.

secondly,

how many muzzle loader hunters would no longer hunt muzzle loader season if you had to choose your season, one season or another?

finaly, a true muzzle loader, would NEVER refer to them as "muzzys".

I bet those guys still have teddy bears and blankies too.

[flipper]

let me ask you, would you still hunt the muzzle loader season if it was all traditional?

in fact that is a good across the board question, and quite possibly, the answer to why the DNR would never do such a season.

How many muzzle loader season hunters would no longer hunt if modern muzzle loaders were no longer allowed.

secondly,

how many muzzle loader hunters would no longer hunt muzzle loader season if you had to choose your season, one season or another?

finaly, a true muzzle loader, would NEVER refer to them as "muzzys".

I bet those guys still have teddy bears and blankies too.

Speaking only for myself, I would definitely hunt if only traditional muzzleladers were allowed. I would also hunt muzzleloader season if I could only pick one.

As far as the scopes go I don't care too much one way or another. There are getting to be so many anti hunters around we would all be better served not to quarrel amongst ourselves over trivial matters. People ought to take a look at how few deer are actually harvested during muzzleloader season before they get so bent out of shape.

[lakevet]

Just curious what damage did allowing regular firearms hunters to also muzzy hunt do? I don't think it's damage to the deer population, because muzzy harvest is still lower than archery.

I think it only comes down to more people in the woods during muzzy season. That jump in numbers came with the modern inlines.

With all due respect, it was not inlines, but allowing hunters to hunt multiple seasons, that increased the number of hunters in muzzy season. Inlines were available for at least 10 years before the all season concept caused a huge jump. Before that numbers were fairly flat, even though inlines were widely available. Toby Knight of Knight Rifles ranted for years against the fact that in MN one had to pick a season. It limited his guns sales.

With the increased numbers, those who hunted muzzy to get away from the crowds, especially those who still hunted and tracked deer as a preferred method of hunting, found themselves competing with other hunters and interfering with other hunters hunt. Still not as bad as reg firearms season, but worse than the "pick one season" days.

How many of you have started out on a track and successfully harvested the deer that made it? How many have done it multiple times? How many have that method as their preferred method? How many have access to enough undisturbed land to follow a track 1 to 2 miles without trespassing or screwing up another hunters hunt? I highly recommend trying it, if you can!

If you had hunted MN muzzleloader season before the all season concept of the younger DNR thinkers, you were able to do that, even in areas with a lot of private land that was owned by buck hunters. Granted you can still do that, but the opportunities have lessened, at least where we hunt. Most present muzzy hunters have not experienced that, and I am sure that the present muzzy season seems like paradise compared to regular firearms.

If you think I am a cranky relic of the past, it may be so but anyone who has waited years to accumulate preference points to hunt a season out west (in my case Colorado muzzleloader bugling elk on public land) know and value low hunter densities. Some states understand the value of a low density hunter experience and have mechanisms such as drawings and lotteries to achieve that. Some individuals pay 5 figure fees to experience low hunter density on private property. Just think it is good for MN to preserve the option of a low density hunt with easy land access for the common man, no matter what part of MN he resides in.

According to the MN DNR, the increased number of muzzy hunters DID DAMAGE the deer population in SW MN and as such the DNR placed increased restrictions on them.

I personally like to see a 12 year old hunting muzzleloader season to be able to drop the hammer on a doe, even if it means that all season hunter who hunted regular firearms and now is doing muzzy may lose the muzzy option.

When a season is opened to all, causing increased hunter numbers and over harvest, thus resulting in restrictions on what a 12 yr old kid can harvest, it is wrong.

However this is exactly what has happened in SW MN and is directly related to a large increase in muzzleloader hunters, most who have already hunted shotgun season. This is not my neck of the woods, but with 3 young boys, and muzzy being our season, it makes me wonder if deer numbers drop, are my kids going to have a reduced chance to shoot their first deer cause they had to pass on a doe, because the DNR fears too much muzzy harvest due to large number of muzzy hunters.

Good discussion!

lakevet

[jigglestick]

According to the MN DNR, the increased number of muzzy hunters DID DAMAGE the deer population in SW MN and as such the DNR placed increased restrictions on them.

I personally like to see a 12 year old hunting muzzleloader season to be able to drop the hammer on a doe, even if it means that all season hunter who hunted regular firearms and now is doing muzzy may lose the muzzy option.

When a season is opened to all, causing increased hunter numbers and over harvest, thus resulting in restrictions on what a 12 yr old kid can harvest, it is wrong.

However this is exactly what has happened in SW MN and is directly related to a large increase in muzzleloader hunters, most who have already hunted shotgun season. This is not my neck of the woods, but with 3 young boys, and muzzy being our season, it makes me wonder if deer numbers drop, are my kids going to have a reduced chance to shoot their first deer cause they had to pass on a doe, because the DNR fears too much muzzy harvest due to large number of muzzy hunters.

Good discussion!

lakevet

the best illustration so far of why we don't need to add to the take.

scopes will add to the take in a couple different reasons. usuing a scope will invite hunters whose eye sight may have swayed they're decision on whether to hunt muzzle loader season or not. secondly it will increase effective range.

both adding to the take.

Lakevet -- have we fished together before?

[fr0sty]

I can totally appreciate your position on this. You clearly state it is about hunter density during the season and not strictly about how primitive the hunt is. Anyone today could hunt the ML season as primitive as they want.

Most of the people I hear that are opposed to scopes and what not don't admit it really comes down to the # of hunter afield during the ML season.

With all due respect, it was not inlines, but allowing hunters to hunt multiple seasons, that increased the number of hunters in muzzy season. Inlines were available for at least 10 years before the all season concept caused a huge jump. Before that numbers were fairly flat, even though inlines were widely available. Toby Knight of Knight Rifles ranted for years against the fact that in MN one had to pick a season. It limited his guns sales.

With the increased numbers, those who hunted muzzy to get away from the crowds, especially those who still hunted and tracked deer as a preferred method of hunting, found themselves competing with other hunters and interfering with other hunters hunt. Still not as bad as reg firearms season, but worse than the "pick one season" days.

How many of you have started out on a track and successfully harvested the deer that made it? How many have done it multiple times? How many have that method as their preferred method? How many have access to enough undisturbed land to follow a track 1 to 2 miles without trespassing or screwing up another hunters hunt? I highly recommend trying it, if you can!

If you had hunted MN muzzleloader season before the all season concept of the younger DNR thinkers, you were able to do that, even in areas with a lot of private land that was owned by buck hunters. Granted you can still do that, but the opportunities have lessened, at least where we hunt. Most present muzzy hunters have not experienced that, and I am sure that the present muzzy season seems like paradise compared to regular firearms.

If you think I am a cranky relic of the past, it may be so but anyone who has waited years to accumulate preference points to hunt a season out west (in my case Colorado muzzleloader bugling elk on public land) know and value low hunter densities. Some states understand the value of a low density hunter experience and have mechanisms such as drawings and lotteries to achieve that. Some individuals pay 5 figure fees to experience low hunter density on private property. Just think it is good for MN to preserve the option of a low density hunt with easy land access for the common man, no matter what part of MN he resides in.

According to the MN DNR, the increased number of muzzy hunters DID DAMAGE the deer population in SW MN and as such the DNR placed increased restrictions on them.

I personally like to see a 12 year old hunting muzzleloader season to be able to drop the hammer on a doe, even if it means that all season hunter who hunted regular firearms and now is doing muzzy may lose the muzzy option.

When a season is opened to all, causing increased hunter numbers and over harvest, thus resulting in restrictions on what a 12 yr old kid can harvest, it is wrong.

However this is exactly what has happened in SW MN and is directly related to a large increase in muzzleloader hunters, most who have already hunted shotgun season. This is not my neck of the woods, but with 3 young boys, and muzzy being our season, it makes me wonder if deer numbers drop, are my kids going to have a reduced chance to shoot their first deer cause they had to pass on a doe, because the DNR fears too much muzzy harvest due to large number of muzzy hunters.

Good discussion!

lakevet

[candiru]

You also add shooting time at the beginning and end of the day. It is the party tagging that hurt things. Somehow, the person that wants to hunt muzzleloader has an open tag when muzzleloader season rolls around.

[PFUNK]

"I like the fact that a scope gives a shooter a clear, unobstructed sight window. The sights on my muzzleloader are bulky, and even at those ranges can easily cover most of the vitals. A scope allows me to place my shot a little more accurately within the kill zone so that I don't make a marginal shot."

I have a big problem with that line of thinking.

if you think your sights or skills create a marginal shot, then hone your skills, decrease the distance to your target.

let me ask you, would you still hunt the muzzle loader season if it was all traditional?

in fact that is a good across the board question, and quite possibly, the answer to why the DNR would never do such a season.

How many muzzle loader season hunters would no longer hunt if modern muzzle loaders were no longer allowed.

secondly,

how many muzzle loader hunters would no longer hunt muzzle loader season if you had to choose your season, one season or another?

finaly, a true muzzle loader, would NEVER refer to them as "muzzys".

I bet those guys still have teddy bears and blankies too.

Why exactly do you have a big problem with that statement? If you read on, I say that more often than not I am going to make a clean kill with the open sights. However, if you play the odds, like I said, a less than perfect shot is going to come sooner with the open sights than it will with the scope... in general. I can shoot a better group at ANY range with the scope than I can with the open sights 99 times out of 100. It is not a matter of honing my skills, it is simple logic. I have spent many hours shooting and ALWAYS check my firearm or bow before the hunt to be sure everything is still zeroed properly. I make every effort to be sure that I am capable of making clean, ethical kills, so if you got the impression I don't do that you are dead wrong. I can shoot 1,000 rounds through my muzzleloader with open sights and I will still shoot a better group with the scope. It gives you a clear look at the target. Like I have already stated, I am not using the scope to extend my range, as I hunt heavy timber and rarely get a chance to take a shot over 100 yards. So telling me to decrease the distance between me and my target is irrelevant. I simply feel more comfortable with a scope. Why does it bother you so bad if I am using one? I have yet to hear from anyone how it is going to change their hunt.

As far as hunting all traditional... you can count me out for now. I attend college and the last thing I can spend money on is another new gun. Got my inline muzzleloader as a graduation gift from my parents because I wanted to get into muzzleloading. If they turned around and said I couldn't use it I would sure be bummed because that would be a big waste of a great firearm. If I had to choose between seasons, and could still use my inline, I would probably do a mix of both seasons as I stated before. One year I may hunt firearm and one year muzzleloader. If I had to choose a single season though, it would be archery. I love nothing more than to spend time in the woods, and it isn't about getting out there to kill something. If I am sitting in a tree stand I am happy, and more often than not I am watching far more animals than I actually have any intention of killing. So if my presence out there during muzzleloader ticks all of you traditional guys off cuz I am stealing all the privacy you used to have, well I am sorry you feel that way. But to be honest, I have just as much of a right as you do to be out there. I pay my fees just like the next guy, and I do my best to be an ethical, responsible hunter so that our resources are conserved and managed. I think you have bigger things to worry about other than the hundreds of guys like me who just want to be spending time in the woods. You aren't going to have weekend warriors out there in harsh December conditions just by allowing scopes. Guys who aren't serious about hunting will find out real quick that hunting that time of the year is TOUGH, regardless of whether or not you have a scope on your gun. That is why I believe you will not see a whole load of bandwagon jumpers if scopes are given the OK.

[nonteepical]

fiber optics are non traditional. scopes are over a hundred years old.

[jay83196]

Pretty sure wI allows scopes and they haven't ruined deer hunting over there. Also its not 150 years ago never will be things have evolved on every level. If it passes and you don't agree with it don't use a scope then, you can sleep at night knowing you stuck to your beliefs. I personaly don't care either way but I don't thinks it matters much either way.

[reinhard1]

last year was my first year using a scope for firearms season. for years i scoffed at using a scope since i hunt up a little north of duluth and realy dont have much of a chance for a shot more than 50 yards. needing adjustments on my glasses and not being comfortable with my shot pattern, even though the grouping was in the kill zone made me decide to use a scope. so if i decide to hunt the muzzleloader season i will use a scope if it is legal. my first priority is to make certain my shot will result in a quick kill when i pull that trigger. good luck.

[lakevet]

Scoped muzzleloader proposals thankfully died again in committee, and hopefully dead for awhile. Never made it to governors desk to be vetoed.

lakevet

[TooTallTom]

Thanks lakevet good to know about the bill dying.

Reinhardt1, I believe it's legal to use a scope if you have eye issues and an eye doctor signs off that there's a medical reason. If you decide to hunt with a muzzle loader, it might be worth looking into.

[Musky Buck]

Good. Got 3 bucks with open sights and could've had 3 more with a scope, had to pass on them as I couldn't declare they were up to our standards so I had to hope to meet up with them again which never happened, with a scope they would've been easy shots, with the naked eye I couldn't tell with certainty. If you can't shoot open sights give it up or get out of your heated box stand and ground hunt closer to where you expect him to come out, you actually have to hunt according to your range but many have shooting lanes cut to rifle hunt and can't comfortably blast those ranges with open sights, there are already plenty putting that pop on pop off scope on already with no regard to the law so there you go. Simple terms, I feel the muzzy hunt should be different than a bonus rifle season with an extra week. After allowing scopes then it would be how about single shot rifles there the same as these in-lines, where does it end in our state, they allow it so we should to, etc. etc. No regard to the resources, just for self gain, people gain, financial gain, what about the over pressured, over hunted, over stressed deer in many parts of Minnesota anyone care or only care about your own ? I want the DNR to make all decisions without pressure about our resources, I don't want some high brow figure who has a relative that wants to hunt or fish a certain way with the know how to float a bill, tired of all of this 2 line fishing, baiting deer, scopes on muskets, etc. Embrace change right, I tried with zone 4 going to zone 2 and in our farming area it changed things for the worse, not all change is successful. You can bash me now.

[Crow Hunter]

"If you can't shoot open sights give it up"

I have a cataract in my dominant eye plus a severe dry eye condition in that eye. This is due to the radiation treatments I went through to knock cancer out of my eye socket. I suppose if I have to quit muzzleloader hunting I could always learn to knit, or crochet...

I don't typically like to make replies with this tone but I get rather tired of people that think this way. Not everyone has the eyesight for open sights, and they have as much right to hunt as anyone else. Nobody needs to remind me that I could get a permit for a 1X scope; I have looked through a 1X scope and it is doubtful it would help much. I hope to get cataract surgery before fall but that won't help the dry eye condition.

Good hunting to all.

[TooTallTom]

Crow Hunter, does a more-than-1x scope help? I ask because it seems like, if the problem is in the eye, it doesn't seem like it would matter how much magnification you put in front of it.

For what it's worth, one of my grandpas had the cataract surgery and couldn't be happier. I hope your operation is in time for hunting, and is just as successful. Keep in mind that there might be a "recovery" period when heavy recoil is not allowed.