senate bill 2235 in ND legistrative

[brittman]

Worthless study by the anti NR side. Figured in all the gear purchased by resident hunters. Apples to oranges.

You have read the report?

Apples and oranges are still sales. Like I said, NR do provide a strong flow of dollars into the hospitatlity industry (lodging, dining, etc). This is why small town chambers of commerce - if you can call them that - support these measures.

There are no limits to the number of hunters allowed into ND to chase ducks and geese. They do limit their total days in the state.

These small town hotels and rental houses are full and often becomes the limiting factor for more NRs to visit. Just no more room. People new to hunting in ND will not be purchasing houses.

The oil industry and the windmill industry continue to take up much of the available lodging in some areas of ND. Reliance on the sportsmans dollar is gone in these locales.

[walleye18]

Brittman...not picking on you but for waterfowl hunting you are not correct. NR waterfowl hunters out number resident waterfowl hunters in ND - by a large number - Fact. These figures are published every year in the "North Dakota Outdoors Magazine" - published by the North Dakota Game and Fish Dept.

If you were comparing the small game license sales between NR and resident you might have something there. The numbers are close, but I think resident small game license sales do out number NR

Nonetheless, getting back on the topic, going from 2 14 day periods to 3 4 day periods is great IMO.

ND has so much to offer in waterfowl hunting. A person can do well/awesome given the migration and location in the State....14 days in ND is fine by me. Would I like to hunt more - you bet! Glad I have a wife from ND who "understands" that I need to go out and harvest what God has created for us. Now only if her and the kids left more birds for me to eat.

Finally, I do not have the facts to confidently comment regarding the $$ spent on waterfowl gear of the NR verses the $$ spent on waterfowl gear of the resident. Just by the shear number difference between the two, I would say NR waterfowl hunters spend more $$ verses resident waterfowl hunters

[cbrooks]

The way I figure who spends more is irrelevent. Its revenue from out of state that matters. Brittman is right about the oil industry taking up lodging is the western part. In Devils lake all the hotels and some of the resorts have people in them from working on there dike. I know because I work out there last summer. Everything is book in that town from the dike project.

[Finlander]

Like i've said in the past to avoid this non-resident bad-air, make both the Dakota's and Minnesota into one state and name it Minnkota!

[LandDr]

And make Big Stone, SD and Ortonville, MN the NEW Twin Cities!

[BoxMN]

As a NR waterfowl hunter in ND, and a small time (very small time, haha!) property owner, I would love to see the 3 four day slots. If someone only does one hunt a year, it is the same as what we have now. If you do two hunts, it is virtually the same, as you can use the last time period to "add time if hunting was bad", hunt with farmer buds, etc. We usually go in 5 day chunks, with 4 days actually hunting. Some guys only make one trip a season, I try to do two. If I had a third option, I would probably go another weekend, or do two three-day trips.

I don't hunt in the pressured areas, so competition is totally a non-factor for us. Last year we didn't see any ND hunters out at all by us, except for a few young ND guys we talked to scouting, or the farmers friends who we know.

We also don't rape the ND resources, so hopefully that type talk can stay out of this conversation. Most of us (I hope) like to go to ND because we like the hunting (of course) but also because once you get to know ND folks and farmers, you realize how truly nice they are and become lifetime friends.

So chalk me up as a NR who likes the 3 period slot, overall I will probably hunt the same amount of days, but spread it out over more time. Good luck.

[brittman]

Brittman...not picking on you but for waterfowl hunting you are not correct. NR waterfowl hunters out number resident waterfowl hunters in ND - by a large number - Fact. These figures are published every year in the "North Dakota Outdoors Magazine" - published by the North Dakota Game and Fish Dept.

Show me your numbers. ND sells about 80,000 resident small game hunting licenses. ND does not sell a state duck stamp so the state does not track number of resident waterfowl hunters by license sales. USF&WS estimate about 30,000 - 35,000 resident waterfowl hunters. ND usually sells between 20K and 28K nonresident waterfowl licenses.

Sounds like you should move to ND. I lived there for 25 years.

[brittman]

So chalk me up as a NR who likes the 3 period slot, overall I will probably hunt the same amount of days, but spread it out over more time. Good luck.

For those of us with kids it would be great. A little more time hunting and less time missing school.

[Bryce]

Please ax this thread or move it to sillytown. Brittman's "credible" report is about as politically one sided as it gets.

[cbrooks]

You can probably get a answer Bryce if you use the notify button located at the bottom of each post.

[UMC]

The reasons that ND residents want restrictions on NR hunters are simple. They don't want the state to be overrun with guiding operations and leased land which will inevitably happen more quickly if restrictions are relaxed. ND is one of the last places where you can go out and knock on a farmer's door and most of the time get permission to hunt or go to a public hunting area and not have to deal with 3 spreads on the same pond and it only seems logical that allowing NR's more priveleges will affect this. You can call them selfish or whatever you'd like but if you lived in ND - often having sacrificed higher pay and lively cities for the great outdoors opportunities in ND - you'd probably feel the same way.

[UMC]

I do agree with the argument that having a non resident 14 day season for waterfowl is @#$%#@#$.

Should we have all non residents who come to MN and fish only get 14 days? This would make things fair - would'nt it?

Too bad the polititians who make the laws in ND are all from GF and Fargo.

I will never understand the 14 day argument for non resident waterfowl hunters in ND.

Comparing MN fishing to ND duck hunting just isn't very valid. It's pretty tough to lease a whole lake and restrict anyone else from using it. Nor can 100 groups hunt the same lake while 100 boats can fish many lakes in MN without even bothering each other. Plus, fishing season is much longer than duck season and having NR's being able to hunt 3 weekends is in many years 75% of the weekends that will have decent hunting.

Your comment about legislators from GF and Fargo making all the laws is far from reality.

[cbrooks]

UMC don't you think its a bit ridiculous having only a 14 day season for NR? 14 days out of the whole season is a joke. Now it would only be 12 but they would be able to split it up better. I support this bill. The NR doesn't have alot of hunting seasson in ND in either way. I don't even think I would bother buying a license in North Dakota with the limited season IMO.

[Tom7227]

There are three bills concerning NR duck hunting in ND - direct from the Game and Fish HSOforum:

SB 2225 - (Senators Klein, Erbele, Uglem; Representatives Brandenburg, DeKrey, Weisz) - Provides for a $500 nonresident combination small game and waterfowl license that is valid for the entire season, except for the first week. SNRC to hear 1/27, 9 a.m.

HB 1237 - (Representative Kretschmar) - Nonresidents age 55 and older can purchase a nonresident senior citizen small game license for $175 that would allow them to hunt small game and waterfowl statewide for the entire season. HENRC recommended do-not-pass 13-0.

SB 2235 - (Senators Klein, Andrist, Uglem; Representatives Brandenburg, DeKrey, Weisz) - Establishes a nonresident waterfowl license valid for three four-day periods. Currently the nonresident waterfowl license is valid for 14 consecutive days or two seven-day periods. SNRC to hear 1/27, 9 a.m.

[cbrooks]

500$! What is the reasoning there? Thats out of line.

[Augusta]

The reasons that ND residents want restrictions on NR hunters are simple. They don't want the state to be overrun with guiding operations and leased land which will inevitably happen more quickly if restrictions are relaxed. ND is one of the last places where you can go out and knock on a farmer's door and most of the time get permission to hunt or go to a public hunting area and not have to deal with 3 spreads on the same pond and it only seems logical that allowing NR's more priveleges will affect this. You can call them selfish or whatever you'd like but if you lived in ND - often having sacrificed higher pay and lively cities for the great outdoors opportunities in ND - you'd probably feel the same way.

Well said, maybe us MN hunters should support our own small towns and business's. Just a thought to all the economists on this thread.

[skee0025]

The reasons that ND residents want restrictions on NR hunters are simple. They don't want the state to be overrun with guiding operations and leased land which will inevitably happen more quickly if restrictions are relaxed. ND is one of the last places where you can go out and knock on a farmer's door and most of the time get permission to hunt or go to a public hunting area and not have to deal with 3 spreads on the same pond and it only seems logical that allowing NR's more priveleges will affect this. You can call them selfish or whatever you'd like but if you lived in ND - often having sacrificed higher pay and lively cities for the great outdoors opportunities in ND - you'd probably feel the same way.

If that were indeed the case it would be much easier to place limits on the number of waterfowl hunting guides in a given area or limit the amount of land that a guide is allowed to lease. I feel the same about operations in Minnesota. With APR's making headway in deer hunting its only a matter of time before the better hunting coming to Minnesota starts to draw in more guides.

[brittman]

Please ax this thread or move it to sillytown. Brittman's "credible" report is about as politically one sided as it gets.

Really Bryce strike the debate? You make sarcastic comments on this thread, but offer little in the way of debate. Are you a NR resident landowner in ND that does not like the restrictions?

How is the data politically one sided?

The information that I pulled is from ND outdoors and a study by Mike Johnson (ND's waterfowl biologist). If my information is incorrect - please demonstrate how it is incorrect rather than call it silly.

By the way in the 1970s the data shows over 70,000 ND waterfowlers. The numbers were in all time low in the drought stricken late '80s at 20,000 and then returned to the mid 30,000s when water returned to the Dakota prairies.

[UMC]

UMC don't you think its a bit ridiculous having only a 14 day season for NR? 14 days out of the whole season is a joke. Now it would only be 12 but they would be able to split it up better. I support this bill. The NR doesn't have alot of hunting seasson in ND in either way. I don't even think I would bother buying a license in North Dakota with the limited season IMO.

I don't think it is too ridiculous that NR only get 14 days. How many guys can spend that much time in another state over the course of a 5 or 6 week hunting season anyways? Personally I'd rather see 10 or 15 thousand licenses given out but make them good for the entire season. Or zone the state up and give out a certain number in each zone, similar to deer. It could flutuate based on water & access conditions as judged by the game and fish, but that would make too much sense.

[walleye18]

UMC - you make some valid points - especially the one regarding the point about ND not wanting to have guiding and leases tie up property in the State, etc... The point I was making is - why does the regular "joe" who is a non resident get somewhat penalized when we in MN open all of our resources to anyone with no time limits. I don't think ND would be over run with waterfowl hunters harvesting all the waterfowl in the State.

Brittman - I did some research on my own. I went back to my ND Outdoors magazine. What I found was that in 2008, there were 27,367 resident waterfowl hunter and 42,621 NR waterfowl hunters. I could not find any data yet comparing 2009 or 2010. I suspect that 2009 and 2010 were lower in all NR numbers due to the economy.

Resident waterfowl hunters can be counted because everyone (NR and Res.) needs to be HIP certified - this is needed by all who hunt waterfowl and migratory birds. You are correct in saying that ND does not have a State Duck Stamp.

Lastly Brittman, I would like to move to ND, ID, MT and some other States but my law practice and partners will not let me.

MN is one awesome State. I don't think it's in the cards to move from here.

[Augusta]

Walleye is correct, MN is one awesome state. Wouldn't it be nice if we spent our sportsmans dollars here instead of our border states. We could use that money on improving habitat, access, and the list goes on......MN used to have tons of ducks, geese, and pheasants....we need to get involved in our own state and its needs, just think of the progress we could make...

[Bryce]

Really nothing to debate. Study included all gear purchased by res hunters. That included gear purchased online which may or may not have been instate. Hard to believe NR hunters are going to make the trek without pre purchased gear. Study funded by who? ND tax payers? Study taker salary funded by? Hard to imagine which way the results are going to sway.

Not calling you silly. Sillytown is the affectionate name for the political/debate forum below.

Will be on the the first line of offense hitting snow geese as they cross from sodak when most of the guides have to give up the chase.

[LandDr]

UFDA...MN duck hunters...if you want ducks in your own state so you don't have to be at the control of other state licenses and seasons, then do something about it to have ducks in your own state.

Did any of you hunt ducks in the flooded fields of MN this year due to the heavy fall rains? Looking at the reports and photos, a lot of you did and it was fantastic hunting. Why waite for it to rain each year to have that kind of hunting? Why not make a plan and get it done to have your own flooded fields each year? You could have your own great hunting each year by flooding crops or even planting wild rice, sago, celery and freshwater shrimp.

Flooded crops are one of the easiest and most productive options to bring ducks in. This is tne "norm" out in Washington and Oregon...down in Arkansas, Louisiana, etc...and out east in N. Carolina, S. Carolina, etc. Minnesota has soooooo much opportunity for this type of management due to the soils, contours and available crop land...but I see hardly any of it being done. Seems everyone wants the easy option of just throwing out the decoys, blowing the duck calls and the ducks come in. Maybe spend your time and money on working with a farmer to lease a small patch of crop field to flood that area in the fall...and then drain it again one ice over so the farmer has no "wet issues" in the spring. Who would think of leasing a bare piece of crop land? You would probably get it for a $100 or $200 bucks because no one thinks of leasing bare cropland for hunting. Then...plug the tile or ditch to easily flood the area you want to hunt and watch the ducks pile in!!!

Now this is probably going to work better in central and western MN but it can certainly work in eastern MN as well...especially if there is more of this management to the west bringing ducks further east into MN.

My farms are mostly sand so I can't hold water, but I have a neighbor farmer just across the road that has a low area. He has been trying to farm that low area each year with limited success cause he tries to get into it too early. This last year he got it planted to corn...grew great but he couldn't get it harvested due to the fall rains. I sat in my deer stand and watched the greenheads pile into that small flooded stand of corn like little tornadoes of ducks falling in. That's all it takes!

Several years ago I planted a 15 acre pond into wild rice...it took and now have a great stand of wild rice to hunt in. Each year the ducks pile into this pond after that food source. We have also put some Sago, Celery and shrimp into this pond for some extra attractant. My 8 year old son and I had a blast out there this year! Ducks pile into this pond all day in 2s, 3s, etc. but morning and evening is just incredible.

I have never duck hunted in the Dakotas...I have world class duck hunting right here in MN because I started the projects to make it this way. MN has so much opportunity for this type of management...time to get started!

Land Dr

[SledNeck]

Minnesota is not a huge breeding ground for ducks like ND and Canada north of there. There is not the number of ducks passing through here.

[LandDr]

Depends on what your goals and objectives are...do you want to "see" several hundreds of ducks or do you want to see a hundred or two or do you want to have to see enough to have good shooting and potentials for your limits (requires hitting your shots )?

I would guess I see a hundred to two hundred ducks a day thru my rice pond...probably more. I am very happy with that and we often shoot our limits...definately have the opportunity to shoot limits. I don't have to pay high out of state fees or deal with their limiting season options...and I spend my money locally.

I don't need to see a thousand(s) ducks flying everywhere...I just need a hundred or two to fly thru my rice. But that is my goal and others may have different goals. I just really feel there is so much more duck hunters can do within MN that is not being explored and developed. I feel duck hunters have some of the greatest opportunities here in MN...just need to look outside the box.

I planted wild rice several years ago and it is GREAT hunting and I am in central MN. Based on what I seen last fall with the flooded corn on my neighbors property, I have a small depressional area I am going to plant to corn next year and then flood in the fall. I will take some photos and post how it works out. I think I will have some really nice photos of greenheads next fall. Anyone else got some projects in mind or want to discuss some possible projects...let's get that thread going.

Land Dr