Will this be repairable or will they total it??

[LightningBG]

IMO that thing is totaled. I would actually fight to have it totaled if they dont insist. You could buy someone elses problem, but you could also be keeping your own problem.

I had a car that was hit by a truck going about 5 miles an hour in my driveway. That car was a major headache for the rest of the time I owned it. It was never quite right. and I did have a reputable place repair it.

To give you an idea on the buyback. Here is my situation from earlier this week.... As you can see from my avatar or whatever they are called, my snowmobile has been crashed. I was stopped and another rider hit me going about 30mph. The sled would cost about 6700 to fix, which is way more than its worth. The ins co (for the other rider) offered to pay me 4700 and they keep the sled. OR. I could keep the sled and they would give me 3100.

So... If I thought I could fix it for less than 3100, it might work out good. but in this case, i wanted it gone, so i took the 4700.

As for the value of the totaled vehicle, they said they didn't use BB or NADA (which there is for sleds too). They said they go by listings for the same vehicle, with similar miles and condition (the "list", yahoo auto, XXX-trader, etc). IMO they were about spot on for what my sleds value was (even though I paid much less for it)

[mixxedbagg]

I'm appreciating all of the advice. I've never dealt with this before. I'm also deeply mistrustful of insurance companies--mostly due to the fact that the less they do for me, the better off they are!

Anyway, it's actually been a headache navigating things with the other person's insurance company (we only had liability, so our company has not been helpful). We're at the point where my wife will pick up the rental car (that we had to fight hard for) today. I would assume that because the insurance company is paying for a rental car now, they will have some incentive to move quickly.

The car has just been towed to a location for the adjuster to look at it. The preliminary report is that it will likely be totaled, but that was not a final call. I asked how the payout is determined if it is a total loss, and I was told that "they have a computer program that does that". I asked him what happens if that computer program spits out a figure that isn't enough to put us in a similar car and I was told that if we could prove that there was an issue with the factors entered into the program, we could get those changed, but otherwise there wasn't much! Is that true? If so, I am not optimistic about this process! Does anyone have any advice on how we can avoid taking it in the pants on this?

We REALLY TRULY are not out to make money on this and want to be as helpful as we can to the company, but we were the victims in this (the other driver was 100% at fault), we did just purchase the car that was damaged, and I just want my wife to end up in a car that is in no worse shape than what she had. We owed no money on that vehicle--we have a savings account dedicated specifically to religiously socking away for vehicle replacement and we bought the car cash.

Also, I am wondering if the insurance company is legally able to call a car totaled, but then spend the money to have it repaired and sold themselves. I would assume not, but I'm just wondering if there are legal or industry standards for totalling a vehicle or if it's really just a judgement call on the adjuster's part.

[fishwater]

I understand you wanting to protect yourself from the get-go, but I think you need to wait until you see the figure they give you for your loss. They want to protect themselves too, that means they want you happy and not visiting a chiropractor next week. They'll likely offer you a good price for your vehicle. Good luck.

[LightningBG]

I'm appreciating all of the advice. I've never dealt with this before. I'm also deeply mistrustful of insurance companies--mostly due to the fact that the less they do for me, the better off they are!

The less they do for you, the better off you are too (ie. not needing their services (no accident))

Anyway, it's actually been a headache navigating things with the other person's insurance company (we only had liability, so our company has not been helpful). We're at the point where my wife will pick up the rental car (that we had to fight hard for) today. I would assume that because the insurance company is paying for a rental car now, they will have some incentive to move quickly.

Yes, they might move more quickly. But if you have an $8K car in the future, you might want to consider putting more coverage on it. What if it would have been your fault? What would you do for a replacement if the savings acct wasn't built up again yet?

The car has just been towed to a location for the adjuster to look at it. The preliminary report is that it will likely be totaled, but that was not a final call. I asked how the payout is determined if it is a total loss, and I was told that "they have a computer program that does that". I asked him what happens if that computer program spits out a figure that isn't enough to put us in a similar car and I was told that if we could prove that there was an issue with the factors entered into the program, we could get those changed, but otherwise there wasn't much! Is that true? If so, I am not optimistic about this process! Does anyone have any advice on how we can avoid taking it in the pants on this?

Your best off to wait and see what they offer. In the meantime, look for other cars that are of similar model, condition, mileage. If they low ball you, you can show them the printouts from what you've found. But, they might come back with a # higher than you expect, and you can just keep your mouth shut (thats what happened to me)

We REALLY TRULY are not out to make money on this and want to be as helpful as we can to the company, but we were the victims in this (the other driver was 100% at fault), we did just purchase the car that was damaged, and I just want my wife to end up in a car that is in no worse shape than what she had. We owed no money on that vehicle--we have a savings account dedicated specifically to religiously socking away for vehicle replacement and we bought the car cash.

Also, I am wondering if the insurance company is legally able to call a car totaled, but then spend the money to have it repaired and sold themselves. I would assume not, but I'm just wondering if there are legal or industry standards for totalling a vehicle or if it's really just a judgement call on the adjuster's part.

Sure, if they have totaled a car and you accept the payment, they own the car. At that point they will probably sell it as is. They are not in the business of fixing cars. Once sold, another person can fix it up and sell it, but it will have a "salvaged" title.

[lawdog]

Remember the insurance company is a business designed to make money. Also remember that you are negotiating with them as to what they value of your car is. They will go as low as they can get you to bite on and you need to bring them up. The less they pay out, the more they make, plain and simple.

Just a year or so ago my kid destroyed his Grand Am. They offered like 4100 and by just looking at a couple online sites and sending one fax they gave me 5200 the next day. Do not just accept whatever they tell you they'll give you or you will get screwed. Do your due diligence they aren't out to help you, they are out to get your claim paid off at as low a price as they can.

[MJ1657]

Remember the insurance company is a business designed to make money. Also remember that you are negotiating with them as to what they value of your car is. They will go as low as they can get you to bite on and you need to bring them up. The less they pay out, the more they make, plain and simple.

Just a year or so ago my kid destroyed his Grand Am. They offered like 4100 and by just looking at a couple online sites and sending one fax they gave me 5200 the next day. Do not just accept whatever they tell you they'll give you or you will get screwed. Do your due diligence they aren't out to help you, they are out to get your claim paid off at as low a price as they can.

+1

[delcecchi]

Also remember that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and it is costing the insurance company money to mess with you. In the grand scale of things, a little extra on the value of the car isn't much when they are paying some guy to deal with it. The faster it gets settled the more they save in time.

So if you can make a case, with evidence, that you should get a certain amount more than they offer, they should come through.

[PurpleFloyd]

I'm appreciating all of the advice. I've never dealt with this before. I'm also deeply mistrustful of insurance companies--mostly due to the fact that the less they do for me, the better off they are!

Anyway, it's actually been a headache navigating things with the other person's insurance company (we only had liability, so our company has not been helpful). We're at the point where my wife will pick up the rental car (that we had to fight hard for) today. I would assume that because the insurance company is paying for a rental car now, they will have some incentive to move quickly.

The car has just been towed to a location for the adjuster to look at it. The preliminary report is that it will likely be totaled, but that was not a final call. I asked how the payout is determined if it is a total loss, and I was told that "they have a computer program that does that". I asked him what happens if that computer program spits out a figure that isn't enough to put us in a similar car and I was told that if we could prove that there was an issue with the factors entered into the program, we could get those changed, but otherwise there wasn't much! Is that true? If so, I am not optimistic about this process! Does anyone have any advice on how we can avoid taking it in the pants on this?

We REALLY TRULY are not out to make money on this and want to be as helpful as we can to the company, but we were the victims in this (the other driver was 100% at fault), we did just purchase the car that was damaged, and I just want my wife to end up in a car that is in no worse shape than what she had. We owed no money on that vehicle--we have a savings account dedicated specifically to religiously socking away for vehicle replacement and we bought the car cash.

Also, I am wondering if the insurance company is legally able to call a car totaled, but then spend the money to have it repaired and sold themselves. I would assume not, but I'm just wondering if there are legal or industry standards for totalling a vehicle or if it's really just a judgement call on the adjuster's part.

I couldn't help but notice that your neck looks a little stiff and out of alignment. Is your head feeling OK.

If not I know this guy........

[G.J.]

I'd like to second LightningBG's comment to start gathering info of similiar comp vehicles that are for sale. If totalled the ins co will probably base their numbers on an avg price of what similiar vehicles have sold for with adjustments up or down for mileage, overall condition, features etc to each comparable it is using in the avg. The process is more like a real estate appraisal with recent sales and not a book value. I don't know how many comps an adjuster uses but if your vehicle is not uncommon there will be more comps than needed and which vehicles the adjuster uses in his computer can change the number. If the number is low be ready to offer your comps to support your numbers. Receipts of recent work performed to the vehicle may also be taken into account. I believe the ins co will only be on the hook for the rental car until they make you their offer. I'd ask if they would extend it to the end of the following weekend after getting your check. They sometimes will do some extra days. Let us know how it works out.

[mixxedbagg]

Quote:

I believe the ins co will only be on the hook for the rental car until they make you their offer. I'd ask if they would extend it to the end of the following weekend after getting your check.

I figured this would be the case....which is garbage since it's not like you can have a car ready and waiting for you to purchase--you don't know when you're getting the offer or how much it will be.

[Valv]

If I was you I would start looking for a new car so you don't waste time. Between the insurance settlement and the savings you have I believe you will be surprised of what you can buy.

Tomorrow, use your rental car to go to the Sportsman show to say Hi to many of us , then try car shopping around the area, as might as well get some good use for the rental.

[mixxedbagg]

Well, they totaled it. Seems like possibly a scam to me. Unfortunately, my wife took the call, so I didn't get to ask their criteria or see the adjuster's checklist...both of which I still may call and insist on seeing (can I demand that and have a leg to stand on?). They said they would call back with an offer in 48 hours. I would assume that we can tell them we'd like time to consider what they offer, but if you can't tell, I don't know much about this process.

Probably what they're banking on.

[highlife4me]

I am surprised it took nearly two weeks for the insurance company to decide to total it.

[mixxedbagg]

Yeah, they towed it from Grand Rapids to Avon (I think) last Wed or Thurs, so they've had it for a while. They said they wouldn't be responsible for the storage fee if we opted to keep it where it was in Grand Rapids.

I would have thought they'd move faster considering they're paying for a rental now.

[LightningBG]

Well, they totaled it. Seems like possibly a scam to me. Unfortunately, my wife took the call, so I didn't get to ask their criteria or see the adjuster's checklist...both of which I still may call and insist on seeing (can I demand that and have a leg to stand on?). They said they would call back with an offer in 48 hours. I would assume that we can tell them we'd like time to consider what they offer, but if you can't tell, I don't know much about this process.

Probably what they're banking on.

I'm not really sure how you figure it could be a scam without hearing the offer....

Wait and see what the offer is, you may be pleased. You can think about it and/or ask for their calculations and try to bargain with them.

Myself, I've had a couple vehicles totaled, camper trailer, cars, snowmobile. And honestly, I've always been really satisfied with the payouts. My sled I got 4700, when i paid $3K. My camper I got $2700, when I paid $900. I had hail damage to a house once, I got $15K, and it cost me $5K to fix. (I cant remember the cars payout, but I wasn't upset about it.)

Just wait and see.

[mixxedbagg]

Was it your insurance paying or someone else's?

[LightningBG]

For the sled and the car, someone else.

For the trailer and house, mine.

[G.J.]

Just curious how fair you felt your offer was on the total and how it worked out?

[Valv]

That's right, how did it turn out ?

[mixxedbagg]

Wish I knew!!! They called my wife and told her it was totalled on 1/20 but did not have an offer yet. We expected a call or mail during this week with more info. Didn't get it. So, yesterday, I tried calling HORACE MANN INSURANCE (the insurance of the driver at fault, not ours) and could not reach anyone (left messages--during this process I have learned that HORACE MANN does not answer their phones but requires you to leave a message. So, I then called the local HORACE MANN office and they knew nothing, said they would contact the company and the claims specialist who is dealing with this claim. They told me they would call me back yesterday, but never did. I tried to call the local office again and nobody answered the phone. I would have walked in the office and refused to leave without answers, but I was not working locally this week so I didn't have that option.

I guess I'm lucky we got our hands on that rental when we did...hope they don't try to back out of their responsibility to pay for that.

I don't know how HORACE MANN treats their own clients, but I hope none of you are ever hit by a driver carrying HORACE MANN!

[G.J.]

Sorry to hear what your going thru. I work in the insurance industry and what your going thru is not the norm. I didn't see in your previous posts if you stated whether you had collision coverage or not but if you did I would have been at the point where I was ready to pay my deductible and let my insurance company collect it back from the other insurance company. Hopefully their slow response is giving you an opportunity to find a replacement vehicle and gather some numbers on similiar vehicles to what you had if you don't like their numbers.

[mixxedbagg]

I got some numbers from them today. I don't know what to make of it and they certainly didn't give me any information on how to proceed whether we did or didn't like the figures.

They emailed me an itemized cost of repair of the vehicle at $7,603.94. They sent a short list of 2005 Stratuses in the area that were being sold from $6,000-$9,000 (saying nothing about the condition, of course) and said the fair market value of the vehicle was $7,178 (according to Autosource).

I don't know what that means--if they are offering us one of those amounts or some other amount. Nothing is said explicitly.

I can say that I don't think we can replace the vehicle for either of those amounts. It was in extraordinary condition for a 2005 with no mechanical problems. Any similar vehicle of similar age we look at brings the risk of buying a lemon (that's what scares me the most in this whole deal). We have seen numerous similar vehicles listed at higher prices. I presume the lower-cost Stratuses they found were not in the good condition ours was in. I am not prepared to accept their offer.

Not to mention, the cost of replacing the vehicle (and the fact they WE are getting stuck with the risk of buying another used vehicle) includes other expenses. We will have to pay for the paperwork on another vehicle (title, tabs, license), the costs involved with shopping for a vehicle (they used vehicles primarily from St. Cloud for their estimates, so I presume they are acknowledging that we need a 6 hour round trip to replace this vehicle), our time involved in doing this, and--petty, I know--we filled the tank 20 miles before the accident. Essentially, they're saying we should just write off all of those expenses when the guy THEY insured is responsible for all of this.

We did not have full coverage, GJ. Lesson learned, I guess...I should have to incur those perpetual monthly expenses because some other guy's insurance is unlikely to treat us fairly.

[SFC]

Read all the posts above,quoted is one of them, prepare yourself with numbers for veh. similar to what u had, by what u posted they havent offered u nothing yet. These numbers are something for u to mull over that they gave u, maybe to help u come around to what they are thinking, go way over the top with what u want for dollars. You have ins, call your ins. agency see if they can tell u a price that is fair.

Remember the insurance company is a business designed to make money. Also remember that you are negotiating with them as to what they value of your car is. They will go as low as they can get you to bite on and you need to bring them up. The less they pay out, the more they make, plain and simple.

Just a year or so ago my kid destroyed his Grand Am. They offered like 4100 and by just looking at a couple online sites and sending one fax they gave me 5200 the next day. Do not just accept whatever they tell you they'll give you or you will get screwed. Do your due diligence they aren't out to help you, they are out to get your claim paid off at as low a price as they can.

[G.J.]

I think your offer is the "fair" market value, $7178. I believe you will be paid tax, title, tabs etc on top of the fair market value. Use all the questions you have as an opportunity to contact the adjuster handling the claim. Try to build a rapport because they are either going to help you or add to your misery. Have them explain how they came up with their numbers for the value and verify what you will be paid on top of the so called "fair" market value. Let the adjuster know what you've found researching the value. Be prepared to send the information of the numerous comparables you found that were higher priced to support the value you think is fair. Emphasize the condition of your vehicle to support your value. You want to get your comparables into the evaluation. The adjuster will not increase the totalled value unless they can provide documentation to the bean counter looking over their shoulder explaining why. Your hoping you have someone that will work with you and your going to need to give them the documents to work with.

One of the difficulties in figuring the value is asking price vs actual taking or selling price. Be prepared for the adjuster to try to use this line of thought to try to explain why your numbers are too high. There is truth to the statement most people don't pay asking price on vehicles and your comparables may be asking prices and theirs may be actual selling prices. I'm not familiar with "Auto Source" but it is probably used car lots and dealerships that share their selling prices with "auto source" who charges the insurance company for their data. Inquire if the vehicles used as comparables are graded by condition. Verify your on the same page on the condition of your vehicle. Did they use any values pulled from want ads? If so how are they graded? Did they pull the value down? Your trying to eliminate any of their numbers that are pulling your value down while getting comparables in that will pull it up. 6K-9k is a large variance. Your vehicle is not uncommon. Why do you think the higher values are more comparable vs how comparable was the 6K value. Have this conversation with the adjuster emphasizing the condition. Inquire with the adjuster if any of the places you found comparables at are part of this "auto source". Also find out who are the dealerships and lots in your area they are using in the auto source numbers. Your best scenario is some of your comparables are at a dealership or lot that is part of "auto source". Either way you may want to try the lots and dealerships and explain you have a check coming for a vehicle total similiar to a vehicle on their lot but your insurance check and their asking prices are not so similiar and you need their bottom line price they will take. You may also be able to cut through some of the haggling in your replacement process with some of the dealerships.

I'm not sure if this tact will help you but good luck. Try to build a rapport and wear them down. If that doesn't work start your way up the ladder.

[Capt. H (Ret.)]

Sorry to read about your troubles. There is a bright side to this-at least the other party had insurance. Having worked in the collision field (retired cop) I have seen this type of thing happen and the other party just walks away leaving you holding the bag.

Good luck!!

Mike