Looking for dog suggestion?

[SportFishin']

Kylersk asked for dog suggestions like so have many others in this forum & it always reverts to the Lab owners toughting that thier breed is superior above all gods creations. Yes labs have there place in the waterfowling world & limited abilities as upland bird dogs. But to say they are the "Do All" greatest thing next to sliced bread is going overboard. There are other breeds that can & will out perform labs hands down in the feild & the water. That is the great thing about breeds other than labs. Some get so single minded in here it has driven me to post this response. Lets help a fellow member do his research and quit making this "My breed is better than yours sally fest"

I was a former Chocolate Lab owner for 12 years before she passed on 2 years ago. I'm now the proud owner of 2 Wirehaired Pointing Griffons & 1 6 mo. old English Setter Pup. They are all novice trained by myself to be "Versatile gundogs" for NAVHDA & NASTRA events in the off season. By Versatile I mean to hunt all Species of Upland Birds, Ducks, Geese, & Blood tracking downed Big & Small Game alike for recovery. And that also entails working all sorts of terrain from the Midwest, The Plains, Southwest Deserts, & the Rocky Mountains where we live here in Montana.

So I would like everyone who is interested in other breeds than Labs to understand that with the right training, research, & effort you can find other versatile breeds that can and will perform as well if not better as an alternative to the Lab. Whether it be Upland Birds (Sharptail grouse, All Quail, Hungarian Partridge, Pheasants, Chukar, & Ptarmigan.), Ducks, & Geese your after or the local Peter cottontail.

Here is an example of my breeds working:

Griffons Duck hunting in Dec. Temp 15 deg. no need for a neoprene vest here!

Griffon Goose hunting & retrieving on Jan. 2nd Temp 25 deg.!

Griffon Sharptail hunting in high desert Temps near 90 in Sept!

Our English Setter Pointing Huns at 16 weeks old with Gun Fire!

Good luck with your search Kyler

Regards,

Chris

[FCspringer]

I was to stupid to be able to find those words.LOL You hit the nail on the head there. Cool pictures.

[djb1]

If the main thing I hunted was waterfowl I would think of one of the retrieving breeds with a leaning towards springers. If I wanted an all around dog that will hunt upland, waterfowl, fur and also do blood tracking I would look at one of the versitale hunting dog breeds with DD/GWP, Giffons, and GSP at the top of my list. I perfer the DD's because of the controlled breeding and the heavier coat since I expect my dog to pull a sled on winter camping trips in the BWCA as well as hunt upland and waterfowl. Do alot of research on the breeder you decided on before you buy to make sure the breeder has the same thoughts of what makes for a sound dog as you do. When you buy you are buying a breeder as well as a pup.

[waxworm09]

I was just researching weimaraners, they look like good hunters and good family dogs. I noticed no one on here recommended them, is there a reason for that? I would like to get some input on here before I look into them more. Any advice?

[kentuck_ike]

Jack of all trades master of none.

This was meant to be funny, and I actually thought I had deleted it thinking some might take it the wrong way. For the record, I own Brittanys, Llewellin Setters, and just put a deposit down for a Golden. I have owned Springers & Cockers. I also enjoy hunting behind DD, GSP, Labs, & mixed breeds that are owned by friends & family.

I would recommend to anyone looking for a dog to talk to breeders of different dogs about how & what they want to hunt, most breeders will show you what their dogs can do. See as many as you can. Narrow it down to a few breeds and then visit multiple breeders and meet their dogs. Then you will have a good sense of what a breed standard is for size & temperament.

More important then breed is the time you are willing to spend training a dog. I don't care what anyone says about their dogs not needing much training or even that they train themselves. This simply is not the way it works. If you want a good hunting dog that hunts for you. You need to spend time training to help make it happen. There are no "get a hunting dog quick" breeds out there.

My standards for a hunting dog maybe higher than some other peoples, because of some of the dogs I have seen work. It is truly amazing to see a really good dog, do what it was trained to do (with good instincts) in the field and behave & respect every person and dog in a group. This happens through training & socialization. It is also not a quick process, but it is very attainable with time & patience.

I am sorry if my previous posts have offended anyone they were not meant to do so.

[JJK]

Weimies aren't that popular around here that could be why they weren't mentioned. I have only seen one in person and a few on vids and was not impressed. But to each his own.

IMO a person looking for their first hunting dog should stay away from "rare" breeds. And also should think twice about the popular breeds. It can be hard enough learning to work with a dog, and then 3 years later realize the dog isn't what you hoped for, maybe a dud. On the flip side, some dogs might too much for new owner to handle.

[scsavre]

Whoever said the brit owners are defensive was right. wow. I think I have heard a lot more of you guys bashing labs then lab owners bragging.

I think going back to the original question, without looking back. It sounded like he was looking for a versitile dog, ducks, grouse, geese, pheasants. family dog. He also sounded like he didnt have a ton of dog training experience. The dog had to be good natured and able to get along with two Boxers.

I dont see any reason why you guys would get mad about anyone suggesting a lab.

It seems so obvious to me, that lab is going to be your best chance of encompassing all those traits.

Im sure all your dogs are great, but as I said. Your brits may retrieve ducks and your springers bring back a goose, and that lab might even point. But for the average guy, those things are not likely to happen.

I love the off breads, but for a first hunting dog, maybe not....By the way are they more expensive.

Regarding the riemriners, I know those things were in bread in back yards like no other 10-15 years ago, when there was a major population increase. Too bad too, cause I hear they can be awesome.

Oh and the best dog I have ever hunted behind.......a Mutt....2nd chocolate lab.

[FCspringer]

No body is mad, why do people always take some letters on a web site and automatically think the author is mad. My self, I just simply like to bring to light miss information, such as a person making the claim that a Lab is the only dog that will hunt ducks, pheasants, and grouse. And he appeared to be a Flabadore lover, thats all . Come on now people can't really believe that can ya. LOL, I actually got a kick out of the jack of all trades thing. I guess I would say that about good springers, but would have to change it to master of one, that being upland pheasant hunting. If we disagree, it does not mean people are screaming at the PC. I could probably have fun with any of you hunting or a cool cold activated one. Having owned Labs and Gsp's and liking them, I am a passionate Spaniel enthusiast now. I have thought about adding a wire hair to the mix just because I really like that dog as well, and I have never owned one. I feel the same way as kentuk_ike and what he said is a good piece of common sense. So now if you think I am mad, I am not. I suppose this type of thread has to be gone through by every one once.LOL

[XRap]

The right dog? Many have commented on thier favorite breed and the attributes associated to them. This is good information but breed is not the deciding factor in whether or not you have a good hunting / family companion.

I would suggest that breed is probably 3rd on the list.

1) How much time can you devote in training, maintaining / excersising your dog.

The time you can afford the dog is most critical in the first 6 mo. of its life and continues with a change in intensity for most of it's adult life. If you want a good dog but are not familiar with obedience and field training it may be well worth your while to contact a trainer that can start your dog in obedience as a puppy while teaching you commands and the finer arts of dog behavior. With a good trainer this will be worth it's weight in shotshells, high blood pressure medication and dog food. If you choose to do your own training prepare yourself to spend time every day in helping your dog understand what's fun, what's not fun and what you expect out of them. The maintenance is a requirement for both excersizing in general health terms and refining the lessons learned for most of the dogs adult life.

2) What is your current lifestyle and what are your specific preferences and expectations for the dog?

Are you an active person / outdoor enthusiast?

Socialization with other dogs/pets, family adults and children.

How often do you leave the dog unattended?

Describe your patience on a scale of one to 10, 10 being a saint.

Do you have room or facilities available for you to train?

Is the dog going to be indoors or oudoors. Family companion or utility or both?

Do you desire a male or female each have their own pro's and cons's (Breed stock or not?)

How much are you willing to spend for purchase and maintenance?

What climates do you intend to hunt geographically?

What is your favorite hunting style? Flushing or pointing or attributes of both?

Upland % Water %

What size of dog would you want / need? Large, small or somewhere in-between.

Suseptabiity to injury? Some breeds may require more attention or are more susceptable to congenital health problems that you should be aware of.

List your expectations out. What do you want from the dog - be as detailed as you can. I.e.: From come on command consistently to blind 200 yd retrieves.

3)Once you have esablished 1 and 2 you can now move into finding breed attributes that fit your list of expecations and preferences and best match your individual and family lifestyle.

The point I am trying to impart to you is that most people focus on breed, lending too much weight to the given attributes of the breed and don't focus on what makes that dog a hunting partner and/or family companion. Breed lends some natural characteristics to make the training process simpler but does not make the dog.

I have trained hunting partners and family companions for over 26 years and some of the best well rounded animals have not been pure breds. I have trained / owned Springer's, Irish Setters, Chesapeakes, Golden's, Labrador's and mixes. I am sure the thought of a mixed breed being as proficient as Joe's exemplary blood lined, titled 45 character AKC registration will raise some hackles but it is simply fact after all what is a recognized "breed" just a mix that has been bred through the ages in an attempt to bring out qualities we think make our jobs easier. New breeds are being recognized all of the time and I believe one was mentioned in an earlier post - Labradoodle?!

If you find yourself wondering about any of the concepts here I would be happy to help you make sense of it. If you would like to chat please post to this reply and add your email address.

Good Luck!

XRap

[Kylersk]

Man, this is a tough choice!

I'd love to get a GWP. From my limited (google search) they appear to be one of the better all around hunting dogs. Just not sure how they'd do with a cat/cats in the house.

Right now I think Springer Spaniel might be my front runner. My father had one (I'm guessing show since he never hunted with it) and she was a great dog.

Labs are also in the mix.

I just dont know. I've never trained a hunting dog, so maybe I should start reading some books on that before deciding?

My wife on the other hand would love to get another Boxer (and I would too) but I really want my next dog to be able to hunt.

With that said, maybe I'm looking for a house dog that could also hunt if trained? I'm guessing GWP's are out, but Spaniels and Labs are definatly in?

[FCspringer]

I would not worry about a GWP and a cat. All pups can be taught to except other animals. Again I would recommend you go watch all of what your thinking about, see how hard it is to train each, see what they do compared to your desired hunting and go from there. Wish you would have stopped out to the club before all this snow. Be patient and look them over in the spring.There are places you can watch these breeds all over. If you do decide on a Springer, I would be happy to help you find a good dog. There are some very good options coming this spring from good solid dogs that I know of in our club and else where. I would be happy to refer you to one that fits your needs. And our Club would love to have you come out to help you through the steps of training the dog. No matter what breed, it will be helpful to get involved in a club to better your experience with your dog.

[caseymcq]

With that said, maybe I'm looking for a house dog that could also hunt if trained?

Lab

[MuleShack]

All dogs take a lot of time spent on training whether it be obedience, house or field training.

In my limited experience with a lab last year and a GSP this year, the lab takes less field time to "qualify" as a hunter. Now by qualify i mean they need to retrieve, listen to commands and obey them in the field and above all know how to find birds. Most of the finding is in the genes and I only had put mine on live birds twice and she was doing pretty good (as a 7 month old). This year we spent more time in the field training but she was pretty good with coverng ground and had a good nose and doing long retrieves.

The GSP I got this year took a lot more time and $$ involving using live birds and training the point and whoa and all that stuff. He is a lot more obnoxious in the house but we have trained him to be friends with the CATS

I guess what i'm trying to say is a pointer seems to be much more time and training on the front end, but you will probably get more out of it on the back 9(years).

[mcne0101]

Here's the thing, there really is no best breed. If there was everyone would hunt with that breed. The fact of the matter is there is a plus/alpha to every breed. However, I agree with the previous poster that the breed is not the most important factor, the owner is the most important factor. I have hunted behind AWESOME GSPs, goldens, springers, griffons, labs, chessies, brittny's, and english setters...on the flip side I've hunting behind terrible english pointers, labs, gsps, and brittny's. That doesn't mean the breeds I hunted behind that were awesome are superior, it means the owners had spent more time with the pooches and had them more dialed in. With that being said there can be lemon dogs that really have no potential, but that's why you do your homework and go with a reputable breeder.

As for me I have a GSP, to me there is nothing better than watching a GSP work a field for pheasants; and no bigger thrill watching them lock up on point. With that being said, they are high energy dogs that need a lot of attention. Stress relief for me is walking my dog and working with him so its no big deal to me; for someone with less time that doesn't love spending two hours a day walking their dog that could be a problem.

From the few sentences you put up there stating pheasant hunting is your first love but you also like to do some duck hunting. To me, a pointing breed would be your best bet. Which one depends on your home situation, remember with dogs we hunt them 3 months a year but they are house dogs 12 months a year so that is an important factor. If you put in the time you cannot go wrong with a well bred gsp, griffon, wirehair, setter, brittney, etc for a pointer.

Honestly, pick any of the main breeds; do you homework, read a book, post here asking questions, and have fun training them and you will have a blast in the field next year...no matter what the breed I can guarantee you that! As most can attest to, there is no bigger thrill and you will never love hunting more than when you are sharing the field or slough with YOUR dog...watching all the time you've put into him pay off. You think you're starting to love hunting now...just wait!! Heres my 13 month old Shorthair "Boss" below!

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[caseymcq]

That's a cool picture. I always like seeing GSP's on point.

[MuleShack]

Heres my 13 month old Shorthair "Boss" below!

Thats what mine thinks his name is...

[XRap]

Kylersk,

There is a lot of training help out there in regards to literature. If I were to suggest a few that would help to explain simple training concepts, behaviors, and learning curves of dogs I would point you to the following:

Game Dog & Gun Dog both Authored by Richard A. Wolters

They may not be the best in regards to cutting edge concepts but do a very good job giving you insight to dog behavior. By reading both you will get an idea about Retrievers and Pointing breed training.

Best Wishes

[Kylersk]

After talking to a couple of GWP breeders, they are confident the breed can get along with cats as long as the GWP is raised with the cats. So, I think that pushes the GWP to the top of my list. My past 3 dogs have been boxers, so I really like the looks of the 'odd looking' breeds.

[duckhunter89]

Well aside from all the suggestions, I mself own a german shorthair lab mix. Originally I wanted a purebed lab, but oppurtunity arose and maverick climed in my lap and I was his. Started trainig on ducks but when dove season came in the pointer shined through at the oppurtunity to jump quail. Easy to train and he minds well he was crate trained with in a week or two and seems to know what im thinking with just a look. Loves the water took him to the favorite hole before season let in and he was in his own. His best friends are two minature schnauzers my sister and mom own and a friends austrailian Shepard. Timid when it comes to motor sounds but will follow me on a 4 wheeler at a distance. When he hears the guns go off he's ready to work. I believe the combination makes him more versatile with the stronger nose of the pointer and the drive of a lab not much gets lost when he'swith us for the day. Yet with a mix it's a gamble maybe I just got lucky. Whatever you decide sometimes the best things in life are free;as was the case with mav.

[mcne0101]

After talking to a couple of GWP breeders, they are confident the breed can get along with cats as long as the GWP is raised with the cats. So, I think that pushes the GWP to the top of my list. My past 3 dogs have been boxers, so I really like the looks of the 'odd looking' breeds.

If you like GWP that would be a great dog, I wouldn't put too much of a basis on your decision contingent on the fact of weather or not they will get along with your cats. Any of the hunting breeds will get along with the cats if conditioned properly. My GSP gets along with my wife's cats great. Him and the smaller one play on occasion.

[scsavre]

Hey, I like the GSP Lab mix. Sounds like you have the best of may worlds there. I am surprised I havent seen that before. Maybe GSP's arent attracted to the darn Labs.

[waxworm09]

I havent seen a lot of people recommending Golden Retreivers, are they just less popular than Labs? I am deciding between a Lab, Golden, Brittany, and Griffon. But I dont see much info on a Golden, do they have the same temperment and hunting skills as a Lab? Im looking up videos and info on hunting dogs but I just dont see much on Goldens online. How do they compare to other hunting breeds?

[Todd Caswell]

Goldens are neat dogs but you REALLY ( did I say REALLY) need to do your homework and buy from proven FT and HT lines, stay away from newspaper litters that are from "championship lines" OR " parents are good hunters" ect.

Comparing popularity if you look at the entries from a Amerature All Age FT Stake that has say 70 dogs entered

60 will be labs ( 50 of the 60 Black)

5 will be goldens

and 5 will be chessies

It's a pure numbers thing.

We dog sit a really nice female golden from FT lines that I FF and CC and I love her to death as a pet and hunting dog, she never could have made it as a HT<FT dog but she loves to please and I used her as a guide dog this fall for pheasants and the people loved her very personable, if something ever happened to the owners Id'e take her in a second as a hunting/pet dog.

[caseymcq]

... Remind me to post a pic of the canister from our Dyson Animal vacuum after a few days of not vacuuming....something to keep in mind! ...

My wife bought one of those and a just about soiled myself when I saw the price. Then she told me it was a refurbished one she got "cheap" online. We had some other name brand one and she showed me how much more hair the Dyson picked up so I figured it was money well spent.

You are definitely right though, there have been times I swear she dumped a whole other dog in the garbage.