Youth Waterfowl Day Yea or Nay?

[Ray Esboldt]

I am an in-between. I think one should bring kids on the opener and well into the season. But, youth day does offer a new hunter the opportunity to focus on the task at hand and (hopefully) be well coached in executing it.

I brought my 11 year old this year. He killed his first duck and cannot stop talking about it. It was a day I have been waiting on for 11 years. He cannot wait for duck opener.

[buddha]

My 9 year old had a blast and didn't get a duck. That bummed me out but I'm glad they give kids a chance to have one day to do some shooting and get the bug. The biggest downer for me was that we didn't see many birds. I was in an area where I would have bet the farm that we were going to have a great shoot and it didn't happen. Glad to see others were able to drop a few.

[Sifty]

I'm a yea.

Sifty

[jparrucci]

No

[NR]

If youth day is so great, why is it we are down to 60,000 waterfowlers as of last year? (yeah, I know they sold over 70k stamps, but some people buy em just to support conservation and don't hunt) After almost 15 years of youth day, with about 20,000 kids participating each year, shouldn't we be up to our ears in duck hunters??? Obviously it isn't working and considering the controversial nature of youth day, it doesn't take a statistician to guess that youth day might be contributing to the decline in hunter numbers. It doesn't matter if youth day really does or does not drive ducks out. The perception is there and adults are quitting. Obviously all these youth are not sticking with the program either.

FWIW, I participated last weekend. Took a young lady that had never been duckin before. I'm pretty sure she had fun shooting up 2 boxes of shells, but she didn't kill a thing. It was fun for me to watch the birds work, but I couldn't help but think, "Gee, wish I could have this many ducks over the decoys once in a while!" She (and her dad) were so jacked up in that first hour it was really fun. Her enthusiasm waned in the second hour and she was down in the 3rd. She was clearly disappointed that she didn't connect with a duck, but she's a determined one, so I reckon she'll hang in there for a while, but when the excitement doesn't even last for 3 hours on their special day, what are the odds that she (or any youth that isn't heavily mentored long before shooting age) will put up with the large number of crappy days that we experience throughout the year, and especially when they get too old for youth day?

[Scott M]

NR, I gotta think retention is a big part of the problem. (I think you mean 20,000 over 15 years, but if the kids go once and no one takes them again, then I agree, the system is flawed and nothing the DNR does is going to make people take out kids. I'd like to see a private mentoring program, but that's a different discussion) There are a whole bunch of issues driving the decline in licenses. But not having any ducks to shoot doesn't help. When duck numbers go up, so do licenses sold. Just like grouse or pheasant, when we see big numbers of birds, we see big numbers of hunters and licenses sold.

I know two living guys in the Minnesota waterfowl hall of fame that have hung up the gun, not because of old age but because of no ducks. They are illustrations of what has happened in this state; if they can quit anyone can quit.

The DNR needs to make some serious ground on their duck recovery plan and that isn't happening. No ducks, no duck hunters.

[Stringerless!]

I think it would be safe to blame part of that attrition on an aging duck hunting population. We all know it is not a lazy mans game ! I would love to know the average age of minnesota duck hunters. I see plenty of older guys driving around watching and sitting at the public access. I can't help but think that it is still in their blood but they can not do it physically anymore but they still stay connected somehow by watching. Looking into my own future how long will I be able push pole through the cattails, or make 3 trips from the car out to the middle of a field loaded down with gear and dekes? Maybe we should allow trolling motors on Wmas if you are over 55 ? Just wondering ? Maybe a senior day ?

[NR]

From yesterday's star tribune:

"an estimated 20,000 Minnesota youths 15 and younger who slipped into duck blinds early Saturday on Minnesota's 15th annual Youth Waterfowl Day."

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/103211879.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUgOahccyiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUs

The obvious answer for MN's problem is lack of ducks (FWIW, NoDak and SoDak have also lost a lot of duck hunters - what's their excuse?) so the question is, what can DNR do to increase hunter satisfaction / give hunters more ducks to see and shoot ?

There are uncountable symptoms the DNR cannot cure - the explosion in lakeshore development, urban and ag runoff, CRP acreage, etc - but the DNR hasn't done anything different in the past 50 years. It's all about wetland and grassland complexes. Well, that obviously isn't keeping pace so DNR needs to look at the things it does control and make some changes. If they keep doing what they've always done, then we'll keep getting what we've always gotten.

They need to look at intensive management practices. Look at the Fisheries Division - would there be a million anglers in this state if it weren't for fish stocking, slot limits, etc? No way. If DNR wants to do anything about the duck season they need to get off their hands and quit talking out of their you know whats.

Hen houses, predator management, pressure control, eliminating over water goose hunting in September and revamping youth day are all excellent possibilities. We'll never know if they don't do something. It doesn't have to be permanent. Give it 5 years and if nothing improves, go back. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Iowa's North Zone has a 4 day duck season Sept 18-22, Youth days Oct 2-3, and duck season Oct 16-Dec 9. Perhaps DNR could take the hint or schedule for MEA weekend.

I fully support (and again, I participate) mentored hunting programs and opening refuge type areas for a day or two of youth hunting, but the current timing simply is not working to anyone's advantage, not even the ducks.

[HNTNBUX]

I took my daughter out for her third youth day on Saturday. Up until Saturday she had never got one on youth day and looked forward to the regular opener so we would be able to bring some home. When she shot her first duck Saturday she almost did a little dance in the boat, she was pumped. Being able to focus on the youth and give them pointers on how to make the shot and when is key to their enjoyment and success. When anyone starts something new and they are not good at it right away their enjoyment will wane or they will get determined to do it better. Luckily my daughter has tried harder and not given up. By 10:00 my daughter had four ducks which is as many she shot all of last year and she can not wait to be back out.

For declining hunter numbers I attribute it to three things, an aging group of hunters, hunters that don't want to work that hard for the sport and access to quality habitat.

I talk to many people that think that duck hunting, bear hunting and bow hunting take up to much time and are to much work. To them I say yes it is and I hope they stay home. I am willing to do what it takes to make my hunt enjoyable and youth waterfowl day is not going to affect it. All those ducks that leave in my opinion are teal and wood ducks that are leaving because of the weather not three or four hours of shooting. If the DNR opened an early teal and wood duck season I would be all over it.

To those that participated I hope you had a good time. I know I will be doing it for the next nine years if the DNR keeps it up.

[Scott M]

Wow, 20,000! That blows my mind. I know they counted kids or wanted them to register, but 20K? Geez. Better see some results down the road...

Great points NR. I couldn't agree more...Section of Fisheries is active, doing lake and stream surveys, stocking, etc. Section of Wildlife? Not so much. I see a lot of WMAs in disrepair, little work towards actual stated habitat goals, and little more than a few fly overs and roadside counts, nothing new or different. Where is the leadership, drive, and work towards improvement, in habitat maintenance and acquisition?

I'd like to see something different tried. I guess in the DNR's defense, there were some waterfowl hunting changes that died in the last omnibus bill.

[shunker_lure]

Well i did the iowa hunt this weekend i wish those kids in minnesota would have scared a few more ducks down to me. lots of wood ducks and a few teal. never saw a mallard the whole time down there. im sure glad they have a three wood duck limit. Minnesota should do the same we have a very health pop of woodies in southern mn. last year i was jumping groups of 50+ birds on sections of river in mutipul areas.

[dan z]

Now that the kids day is over. Now just think of all them ducks you saw when hunting with them you could have been shooting them with them on opener. Now that teal and wood ducks are gone so now the adults dont even get a chance to shoot at them. I hate youth day. I have seen more ducks durning early and after youth i already stated seen less ducks. I wish i could get a chance to shoot at some teal and wood ducks.

I will always be a hunter no matter how many ducks are around it just a bouns to get birds. Its all about hanging out and have fun with your hunting buddys.

[carpshooterdeluxe]

Now that the kids day is over. Now just think of all them ducks you saw when hunting with them you could have been shooting them with them on opener. Now that teal and wood ducks are gone so now the adults dont even get a chance to shoot at them. I hate youth day. I have seen more ducks durning early and after youth i already stated seen less ducks. I wish i could get a chance to shoot at some teal and wood ducks.

I will always be a hunter no matter how many ducks are around it just a bouns to get birds. Its all about hanging out and have fun with your hunting buddys.

Have you ever taken a young hunter out on a youth hunt? I didn't really like the idea of the youth hunt either, but after seeing how much fun a few kids can have i really changed my opinion on the whole deal.

[TylerS]

I don't really care either way, but for those people who are for a youth day because of the interaction with kids, I have one question: do you not interact with them during the regular season?

I've never taken youth out for their special opener, but have on several occasions during the regular season. They get just as much attention (if not more since there are more guns and paying special attention to safety is the No. 1 priority) as they would had there been no one else shooting.

I mean, if you bring kids along in October, do you just ignore them because it's not their special day? I probably pay more attention to youth when they're along than the ducks just because I like to see how they do. And I think they get a bigger kick hunting with "the grownups" than anything. Heck, that's the reason I liked hunting so much! Getting up early and being able to go out with my uncles. I didn't care about anything else. It was awesome to tell my friends what I did, even if I never fired a shot.

So I think it's great that you guys are taking youth out for waterfowl. But the argument that they need the day for the attention is bunk, IMO. If you can't give them the attention they deserve except for one weekend of the year, how do you expect to get them to come along more than once?

[chillincarp870]

whoever says no to youth waterfowl day really has some problems. This single day makes the entire year for them. And if your argument it scares the ducks, blow it out your a$$ the ducks will be back, late season is the primetime, and I would gladly give up some immature red heads, teal, and a mallard or two to make a kids year. as you can tell i'm all for it.

[jparrucci]

Well I along with almost every person I have hunted with (dozen plus guys) are against it, including those with kids. According to chillincarp870 I have problems. Well, actually I do with this whole coddle to the children generation we are bringing up. Bring them with you for the rest of the season if it is so importantant. But with limited hunting opportunities for those who are currently paying for a lisc. I would think you would not try to kick more people out of it like my father, who can't sit out in the cold for the late season. He doesn't want to go for early season now either, since the chances of pulling trigger have dropped dramatically in the last few years. I'm not saying that the youth waterfowl day is the only problem, but it is part of it. Why is every state south of us shooting ducks weeks before us, the northernmost state? This is my last duck season in MN, I would rather pay to hunt where it makes sense in ND and apply yearly for SD.

[fivebucks]

If the day truely brings kids into hunting that would not go out on opener or later, I would be all for it. I don't think it brings many (if any) so therefore I am not in favor of the early seasons for any animal. I know I have a problem but I can live with myself.

[Swampbusters]

Sorry to tell you this if your a teal lover alot of them left befor the youth hunt this year. My little bro loves to shoot teal and he was really looking forward to the youth hunt. We saw maybe three small flocks of teal. Its kinda strange how cold weather can push teal out faster than the youth hunt. It is what it is guys, its minnesota and i think the weather messes up opener more than anything. And if you still dont like it go to canada, i hear theres birds up there!

[honker23]

I am one of the guys with "real problems" too. Most of the main reasons have been pointed out very well already.

To remind those that are for it...I am not against getting kids into duck hunting. I am not saying kids don't have a ball on youth day. I just don't think the day does what it was intended to do....numbers are going down even after numerous youth days. So if the intended benefits aren't there and it has a few negatives with it, why continue it the way it is?

I am also in favor of them joining the party on the real opener. I have not hunted with a person that would have a problem with a new hunter taking the first shot on flocks or giving them the loners, especially if they are a kid!

[Beast26]

First off thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion civil thus far!

That's the part I don't quite get. We take kids with us all the time when the season is legally open for everyone to hunt. They receive the same attention they would receive on "youth waterfowl day". They always shoot first and sometime they (wink wink) kill birds that fall after a slight delayed. I am all for taking youth hunting but they should be involved in "the hunt" and not have their "own hunt" prior to the season opening. Also, as pointed out previously the number of waterfowl hunters in this state are falling year in and year out so it's NOT adding new hunters (which I believe is the DNR's ultimate goal). That can be proven by looking at license sales. Involve kids in the actual hunt! Make them part of the group! Get them involved in the duck camp chores!

[carpshooterdeluxe]

I look at it this way: there are 2 types of kids out there; those that are around hunting and the outdoors, and those that need to be introduced to it. I see the youth waterfowl hunt as a way to introduce NEW kids to the sport without added outside "pressure" if you will from other adult hunters on a marsh or field or whatever. I see the theory behind it as being a tool to recruit new hunters. is it working? probably not, as many have pointed out due to license sales.

those of us waterfowlers out there that have their own kids (i do not yet) would more than likely be taking their kids out hunting during regular season just as we all did with our dads/uncles/grandpas in the past. but the state sees what i see: the increasing trend of single parent suburban families where there is a disconnect with the outdoors.

The point of the youth waterfowl hunt is not for a 15 year old to go out an extra day even though he and his buddies have already pounded early season honks, he has been to nodak with his dad 2 years in a row, etc. the point of the youth watefowl hunt is to take your son's non hunting buddy, or the kid down the street that doesn't have a dad, etc. and have a little easier time showing them what a duck hunt CAN be.

[jparrucci]

What is also does, is chase away people (especially the older hunters) How many of them can take the time and effort for late season mallard hunts in the cold and ice? Remember, most of us on here are the hard core hunters who chase those late season red legged mallards, the vast majority of duck hunters are done in 2 weeks. Chase them out...and there is no stamp money or supporters left.

[chillincarp870]

carpshooter I am totally with you. we had a 10 year old in my boat this weekend and he hit his very first duck, his jaw just about hit his boots, he looked over at me and said i hit it i hit it, did you see that? I hit it. that made my year. He is hooked and will buy a license for the rest of his life. I do think the opener should be moved up, but this forum is about a yes or no to youth day. I don't care what your reason is it sounds selfish to put a stop to the youth day, i just don't understand your thinking. I see youth day as a special day for the kids where they get the pride and joy knowing that it is their kill and they didn't have to fight with 2-3 other guns over a duck, that the kid probably didn't hit, and they know that if they are hunting with avid duck hunter later in the season. And yes we take the kids until they can't stand the cold, breaking ice, and hockey season starts. When there are no kids that are going to hunt with me, i will never sit around pi$$ing and moaning about having less ducks to shoot at even if i'm too old to go break ice in late November, and yes I will always buy a license.

[coombia21]

I am all for youth day. That is how I got started. It is nice to be able to go out and take a kid hunting with out the pressure of other people hunting. I have taken amny people out on youth day and got them started for life. It is the perfect oppotrunity to bring someone out and teach them the ropes with out having to worry about other people on the water.

[TylerS]

He is hooked and will buy a license for the rest of his life.