Musky Fishing and the Internet

[Tim_Anderson]

Lots of internet hype going on right now about Mille Lacs.

Truth is it is really not that good. Be in the right place at the right time and you MIGHT catch a fish. Fish your tail off for a week and you MIGHT catch a fish. Thats the way of the big pond. It's the most humbling lake I know.

Don't know the lake? Well, you've got a snowballs chance...

Or you might catch the state record.

Lots of boats coming up chasing a couple of individual reports and some internet rumors. Lots of guys going home scratching their heads and wondering What The Heck? Didn't even see one!

Lots more people fishing Mille now the past week or two since the internet hype really got out.

I'm not seeing much for reports though, are you? C'mon now, not everybody is that secretive?

Fishing pressure makes what small bite there was even worse.

Some people really clam up when they get bugged. I think muskies are like that.. and at times they won't eat until they are left alone for a certain period of time.

My opinion... there are much better places to be. Just not the kind of guy who is going to use a little success and lay out the specifics in order to get some more trips.

We all need to get our noses out of the computer to a certain extent. We know where the fish live. We know what they like to eat. We know what lakes produce action, and we know which ones produce monsters. Pick your lake and go get em. Does that make sense?

Guess it really doesn't matter to me what the next guy is doing. If he's catching fish... good for him and congrats. I'll figure it out on my own, without asking, speculating, or analyzing things to death. I miss the days when that's the way it was.

And at the same time I appreciate the internet because it brings me the vast majority of my work.

Sorry for the rant guys. This internet things is just way, way powerful. We gotta be careful with it. Believe me, ONE report can change the face of fishing on a lake for all of us. Problem is, not necessarily for the better unless you think catching a fish is the be all end all. Fishing my life away for a 40 pounder in a sea of boats, and playing musical boats hopping to a spot when it opens just does not really sound like that much fun.

Sorta sticking my neck out here. I often avoid controversial stuff because in my position it's usually just not worth it, but I do really feel strongly about this. People that know me understand that I am a sincere and honest man. Go fishing and I wish you well... really. But please watch what you say... especially if you are in the limelight.

I made up my mind years ago... that I won't gain fame or fortune at the expense of the resource. And I'll keep my peace of mind (BOSTON has a great song about this very thing) knowing that I didn't bring the crowds. And I'll enjoy fishing with a certain degree of satisfaction looking around me and not seeing too many boats.

Though I LOVE guiding, I will most likely remain a part timer because of my principles. That's fine. Go to my HSOforum. I rarely ever mention a lake. Almost never mention a bait, unless I have nick-named it. I've no sponsors or merchandise to promote. I fish all over the state of Minnesota, but you won't know I was there unless you saw my rig at the landing. It's the way it's gotta be.

To sum up, what I'm mainly trying to sell here is a certain amount of caution when it comes to reporting on the internet. Please just think about it. No need for any hostility here. Lets take care of those muskies, and those bodies of water that we all love to fish!

Best of luck to all you guys. This IS THE best musky forum... why I come on here and post and read from time to time.

And if you think I've got something to hide in Mille, come on over and give it your best shot! If you find success, you're gonna most likely deserve it.

[propster]

Good post Tim. But there are X number of musky fishers (and growing it seems) and a very limited number of lakes. I kind of like when rumors get started and we all flock to a big lake like ML. Might reduce some of the pressure on the smaller lakes that had to absorb ML's loss in the first place! Besides, like my kid says "If I'm not going to catch anything, at least I'm not going to catch something big!"

[john skarie]

Hey Tim;

We met at the FM muskies meeting when you were a guest speaker.

I'm kind of scratching my head at your post.

Are you saying you regret posting your last big fish in the net because it brought more people to the pond??

The only "reports" I've seen are from you and Hammernick lately about Mille Lacs. I guess it makes sense that guides would post about big fish.

With that will come the guys who want to catch big fish.

I guess in your position it's a double edged sword. Talking about fishing is part of your livilihood. Talking about fishing also can make your job more difficult, or even less enjoyable?

Have a great fall, big fish will be biting this Sept. I believe on a lot of MN waters!!

JS

[jonesen]

I think a few older guys that fished muskies during the 70's & 80's new that things would return to normal and the glory days would come to an end, a few things helped to speed up this process in my opinion, like the increase in anglers targeting muskies, (I agree the internet contributed to the increase) another one is summertime tournaments that were held on these big lakes with big results, the word spread like wild fire with multiple mid 50's caught during these tournaments and these lakes were pounded to death because of the results of these summer time tournaments. Another thing that contributed ( in my opinion) to the decline in big fish is the lures we use today, the double ten was a great tool to catch a big fish but it had an adverse effect on the fishery because so many big fish have died (at the hands of the casual muskie angler) from being deeply hooked with the 10's. A lot of these big fish were caught after dark by anglers who were not ready to handle the situation they found themselves in and the fish suffered.

I don't believe we will ever see the amount of fifty's we saw in the last decade but there will always be a chance to catch a fifty just like in the past 40 or 50 years.

[Silver Scale]

Tim.

Does this mean you won't be making any posts about the Rainy River next spring too?

The internet boards can be a real help to some people but it also can have a negative impact on the fisheries in a hurry when the bite is on or a couple of big fish are caught and put on it...

[john skarie]

I guess I'm not sure if I'd go out on a limb and say that many fish died because of dbl 10's and the casual angler.

Personally, I've never had a fish get deeply hooked with a dbl 10, but have with other lures. Any lure you use has the potential to get you and the fish in a bad situation.

How many fish does the "casual" angler even catch? Probably not that many.

I feel that the biggest detriment to our muskie fishery is guys fishing at all costs (meaning in hot water or very windy weather) which often leads to putting fish under a lot more stress than they should be.

There a lot of muskie anglers out there nowadays that only care about fish in the bag. How they get them there and what happens to the fish are 2nd to getting a photo of that big fish.

Just MHO.

JS

[p0007]

I agree with your post, the problem seems to be, because of the internet, that many people chasing muskies chase the "hot lake", and it only takes 1 or 2 people posting reports to turn a nice lake into a zoo.

The other issue is in the musky publications, shows, etc.. that repeatedly pound into everyones head that they MUST go to mille lacs, vermilion, etc to catch big fish, while these lakes hold some big fish so do ALOT of other really nice lakes that do not receive as much pressure. Many people head to these over pressured lakes that can also dish out some tough fishing are leave wondering where they went wrong. And why someone who is taking time to go on vacation to lake would pick the over-pressured lakes is beyond me?? Playing merry go round on a reef or getting constantly cut off is frustrating for everyone involved and constant pressuring of these fished has changed they way you have to fish for them. I have found many dead muskies floating on these lakes, kill off a bunch of 20 -30 yr old fish and see how fast fishing gets tough.

While I enjoy reading/watching musky stuff, but there is absolutely no reason articles and shows need to focus on specific lakes, they should focus on tactics for conditions and along that line, don't worry about what lake or spot the fish was caught on, there are plenty of good lakes with good spots that do not get hammered by the masses!! I have focused on fishing some of the less pressured lakes and not only is it much more enjoyable, activity can be really good, and these other lakes have given up some numbers of huge fish as well.

It would appear a significant majority of these posts are by either: guides/resorts trying to shamelessly make a buck anyway possible or people who go to the lake once / yr and don't care how much undue pressure gets put on the lake. The top resorts and the best guides almost never post, while it is their livelihood, they don't need to bombard internet message boards to maintain their business AND they don't need a message board report to find/catch big fish!! go figure.

Every time someone posts they are heading to lake X, what are the latest reports? what are they biting on? what type of structure? I just shake my head. You need go and figure it out for yourself! Just because its on the internet its true??? If you go somewhere and focus only on what you read on the internet, how do you know if that is what is working best?? Don't sell yourself short by doing what someone else is. Find a lake, try weeds, try rocks, try different baits, etc, and find the pattern yourself. It changes so much anyway that by the time you read about it on the internet it could be completely different. It is not only much more rewarding and less crowded to develop your own pattern, it also makes you a better fisherman by learning why your methods worked or didn't work. Remember fish are in different areas at the same time and more than one tactic may work! Information sharing for education purposes is one thing, but all of this hype is ruining some of these lakes and giving musky fisherman a bad name.

[50inchpig]

i gotta agree with JS on this one. i got a lot of respect for you, Tim, and i think you're one of the good guys, but trying to reconcile your post about your big fish with this one has me a little confused.

if you post it, they will come, whether your fish was an ML fish or not, why try to discourage the weekend warrior from going up there and taking a shot at the fish of a lifetime?

[kingfish689]

With the internet or not 90% of the fish are still caught by 10% of the fishermen. and I am just glad I put my time on the water to earn my spot in that 10%. alot of people have the idea that reading here is a shortcut to that 10%.It is not. you still have to get out on the water and put what you have learned to work and learn how to do it right. I dont mind being in the back of the boat as I am confident that my lure looks right going throuh the water. A hungry fish will follow anything but he will only eat what looks like food to him

[scsavre]

Tim,

I guess I just dont get it here either.

You seem to be one of the people who make the biggest deal out of any big fish you catch. You sound like a good guy from the stories, but still....Sounds like you want it both ways.

I get your points, I really do. I have a couple "home body" waters that I am very tight lipped about. Now they are pretty highly pressured And yes, i do hate it if they get publicized. And like Mille Lacs, I think most of the people go home with their tails between their legs. And guess what? guides are who is bringing these people up there. I used to have 1 of the lakes to myself, now there are a couple boats on every spot.

If Mille Lacs is the lake you are talking about... good luck. People plan trips on that lake months ahead of time. Good reports or not.

As far as all the internet fisherman.... alot, but not all seem to be guys who just like to chat online and dont catch all that many fish. Obviously some do very well tho.

I wasnt going to post my report from Mille Lacs yesterday.. but you asked.. I was successful, from 5 to 9:30. It was my second time ever on the lake. The only reason I went there was because I needed to go to Reeds to return a broken rod, and figured might as well fish.

If you guys get mad about fishing reports, close down the forum, pretty sure that is what it is mainly about. There is always a way to catch fish, change up your routine. Or you can just come down to the metro where there arent even spots at the ramps anymore. Every week someone learns not to post a lake name, and every week there are newbies who post a lake.

[HugoBox]

Very interesting topic. The thing that cracks me up about pressure is how much we can turn into sheep based on reports. Its no secret that there are big fish in Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW - etc. Its also no secret that in the metro you have a good shot if you're on Waconia, Minnetonka, White Bear - etc. The funny thing is that the fish never leave the lake but we gotta see a report to get us on those lakes?

That said, I don't catch enough or big enough fish for anyone to care where or what I'm doing but I share less online now than I used to.

I'm also more skeptical of reports I read online - think the average Joe wouldn't like to direct a bit of pressure AWAY from his favorite lake?

Sorry for the rambling but my $.02 on the topic.

[Nick Kuhn]

This seems like a blame game but a good place to start would simply be the low stocking rates. With the current stocking rate and current reproduction rate, expected muskie populations are around 0.01 fish per acre (1/30th the population of a normal muskie lake). It simply means anglers should expect to put in a lot more time there if they wish to catch a fish.

[john skarie]

A buddy of mine says there are 2 kinds of fishermen.

Report Makers and Report Chasers.

The Makers are the ones that figure out the bites and catch fish. Often have bites to themselves for awhile until the word gets out.

The Chasers are the ones who hear about the bite and go chasing after it. They only fish hot lakes and are content playing bumper boats be it for walleyes, muskies etc.

Don't think that will ever change.

JS

[FutbolGuru]

Warm water temps on big lakes + musky angler boom = croweded Millelacs, Vermillion, Leech... Add the internet to that equation and people find out sooner vs later.

[honker23]

I agree we all have to be more careful about posting specifics regarding muskies, walleyes, crappies, etc..... Most of the people on here are good about protecting the resource, but unfortunately a small few aren't. Technology is the sword we are dealing with. The new graphs/chip combos can make a novice into an experienced angler in a short amount of time. The boats that drive 75 mph allow you to fish 20 spots a day, the rods, reels, lures all equate to more fish. The web definitely plays a part of this, but ultimately there are more people fishing now, or at least seriously fishing withe above mentioned technology.

Kind of funny how some people that get to fish hundreds of days a year become upset with a guy who gets 1 week and picks "their" lake! I'm not trying to bash guides or tournaments, but think how much less pressure lakes would see if there were no guides or tournaments allowed?

[smeese]

Obviously there are ways around posting a catch IE blur out picture backrounds etc...without saying hey got this on Millacs come get it too, but agreed this can take a toll on a lake.....also though this is a fast growing sport and few lakes to choose from.....try living near a 800 acre lake, add some preassure and try to catch then you will have a problem. Half the people that come up there and try may not even get near a fish...yet people from the metro come down too where the lakes can handle even less anf there is only one or two to choose from. Growing up on Cannon Lake I fished it my whole childhood. Now that I live in Mankato I fish the area lakes and still go back to Faribault sometimes to fish French or Ice Fish with friends. Never thought about or got into "going up north to fish" and the only time I did go was for a guided Muskie trip in the Alex area. I like my area to fish but don't care if people come there too as long as they respect the resource. I say fish where you want to fish to whomever, but this whole post can go two ways. You have one of the big 6 nearby....just be thankful for whats there....it could be worse yet.

[Tim_Anderson]

Hi John,

Sure, I remember you from the meeting and have read many of your posts.

Many people assumed the big fish I caught last week was from Mille. That's too bad, really. I fish Vermilion. Bemidji. The Plant. Big Detroit. Miltona. West Battle. Etc. Could have been from any of them as they all produce fish like that. I purposely didn't say anything about the lake, the bait, etc. People were left to speculate, but I had really hoped they would just enjoy a good story.

You asked do I regret posting? That's a really good question as when I do post a report and a pic (though rarely) I do so with some very mixed emotions, and I do so very carefully. You talked about it being a double edged sword. You are dead right. It's something I have really had to struggle with. I'd like to guide full time. I'm just not willing to pay the price.

I'll post from time to time for three reasons off the top of my head.

1. I enjoy sharing the thrill of a catch... especially something super special like a giant fish. I know that I love hearing about the giant fish that other guys catch. I really don't care where they got it, or how they got it - but more THAT they got it. It inspires me... sort of makes me feel like I can go out and do it too. Gives me the incentive to stay at it and keep working hard.

2. Which leads me to number two. If I enjoy another guys story, and they inspire me, then it leads me to believe that my story will be enjoyed by others, and will possibly be inspirational as well. I have had mostly nothing but positive feedback when I post on this site. It's the reason that I like this site the best. There's better comradery. It's more informative, more productive. etc.

3. And I need to admit that yes, I want to let people know that I am alive and well from time to time. It's part of doing business, but as I tried to explain in my earlier post, I work very hard to be careful about it. You can dig through the archives if you want, but you're not likely going to find me mentioning the specifics. I don't do this constantly because I don't want to attract a bunch of attention. I usually do it a couple of times a season with a big fish If I am fortunate.

My gripe is not with this site, nor with the guys that are on it. Lets just say that last night I was a bit frustrated, and aired out a bit with you guys. My complaints would likely be better served on another forum, OR to talk directly to some of the guys who are in the limelight in this industry and try to calmly make my point. I wish I could help to make things different.

Last weekend there were three boats up on the north end of Mille. This weekend there were 25.

I attribute it to internet. How else does the "dead sea" become so busy so fast?

Silver Scale... I'll try to answer your question as best as I can. Not sure that we'll see eye to eye, but that's ok.

The Rainy River is something different to me. I have come to accept that as a sort of "beginning of the year walleye fisherman's social event." Everybody is brimming with excitement to get out in the boat again and catch a fish.

There are tons of walleye and sturgies in the river. Enough fish for everyone, really. They are not top of the line predators. They are throughout the river. They are almost all released alive. I don't think I've seen a time yet in over 10 years where another boat impeded me from catching fish. I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know.

I sort of enjoy the traffic up there. The waiting in line doesn't really bother me, though I have found my ways to get around it. I usually hob-nob with the guys who are around me at the access, and help out if I can. Same thing at the campground, the hotel, or the cafe.

On the water, I enjoy talking back and forth with the boats that are around me. We almost always help each other out if we can. Not too much secrecy there. I use a pink and chartreuse jig with a stinger hook and a minnow, OR, I pitch plastics of some kind. It works for me. I hope it works for them too.

And then I get on the internet and post, simply because I enjoy helping out the other guys who are sitting back home chomping at the bit and wondering what the heck is going on up there.

I have been there many times myself (chomping/wondering). It doesn't really do me any good - the posting. Technically illegal for us to guide up there and I have stopped doing much of anything but favors for friends and clients that I guide back state side. It's not really worth it to me to do what it takes to be fully licensed to guide up there. So like I say, just trying to be helpful and enjoy the comradery. The Rainy River season is what it is... and it is a "free for all."

That said, with musky water already being so pressured, and with the fishing popularity growing so much faster than the opportunity, there is no way I would be plugging any particular lake so that I can increase MY business. I can't live with myself at the end of the day. It's as simple as that.

If people are going to assume they know where I am, then perhaps I need to stop?

If you guys think I attributed to the traffic on Mille Lacs, then I will stop. Flat out. No Problem.

You tell me....

[john skarie]

I don't think you need to stop doing anything Tim, especially not because you feel others want you to.

Personally I've wrested with the "double-edged sword" for years, as have many of my friends.

Like you stated, it is fun to talk fishing and share stories, it really is.

I guess eventually you start to wonder if your stories are the reason you're getting frustrated on your waters when the people come.

Than you have to make a choice, who do you tell, when and where do you tell?

Kind of sucks but I guess it is what it is.

Have a great fall!

P.S. Hammernick posted that he caught back to back 54 and 55"ers on the pond last week. I don't think you need to feel the increase in boats is your fault!!

JS

[scsavre]

I say keep doing what you are doing.

It isnt your fault that people assumed where you were. Just dont blame everyone else on here for increased pressure. When in reality some people might have gone to Mille Lacs because of your report. So there is a chance you increased the traffic. Personally I have absolutely no idea. I have never fished a lake or not, because of what I see on the internet. Its not like its 2001 and someone mentions Little Wolf.....

I still dont believe 90% of what I read on here anyway. I think the majority of the people on the crowded water are catching diddly squat anyway.

[Nick Kuhn]

Quote:

Last weekend there were three boats up on the north end of Mille. This weekend there were 25.

I attribute it to internet. How else does the "dead sea" become so busy so fast?

Severe weather one weekend and none the next might have something to do with it...

Again correlation does not equal causation. You could take every instance of "internet" in your argument and replace it with "weather" (keep in mind this year and last year are at complete opposite ends of the weather spectrum) and it'd probably make as much sense.

I don't go out of my way to keep where I fish a secret. I post reports in the WI forum every week, whether good or bad, and it has zero impact on the number of other boats I see out there (I've seen a grand total of 2 other muskie fisherman this year, while I have boated 6 fish this season). I will tell you that picking a lake that suits the weather conditions has been the biggest determining factor between success and failure for me this year.

[Castinski]

?

The only "reports" I've seen are from you and Hammernick lately about Mille Lacs. I guess it makes sense that guides would post about big fish.

With that will come the guys who want to catch big fish.

JS

Yeah and thanks go out to Hammernick for announcing that he moved 50 fish on opening weekend on a particular metro lake last year in a seminar at the musky show this year. I think the steam could be seen coming out of my ears. This just goes to show that it's not just the internet, but any word of mouth can ruin lakes if told to the wrong people.

And 25 boats on one whole end on Mille Lacs? Most small metro lakes see that many fishing muskies on a Saturday morning. Send more of them up to the big pond, I say.

[10,000 Casts]

Mille Lacs was the crown jewel of the Muskie world a few years ago when it came into the limelight. The last 2 years have been pretty tough out there from what I have heard and experienced. I have heard many theories on why it is tough and most guys are just waiting for it to turn on and go gangbusters and the main way they do it now is watching these forums for instant info and feedback. Any hype is still hype and will increase the boats out there whether it is size or numbers being caught.

I think you are right, the impact of the internet is causing our lakes to become more and more crowded. However, it is also the internet that will help aid in getting more lakes stocked in the future. Whether or not you want to post stories and pics is up to you..

[50inchpig]

i dunno, is this as simple as someone cutting you off and leaving a bad taste in your mouth for the rest of the evening? understood if so, been there done that. every great once in awhile, i think it's just better to yell at the other guy out on the lake and get it off your chest out there than to carry it home with you.

your fish might not have been from mille lacs but might as well have been with other recent publicity on that lake. you've got good options with all those other lakes you listed so why not hop up to one of them instead of getting bent out of shape on mille lacs being busy?

good luck the rest of the year though and we'll probably see you on the water.

[Rick]

There was a nice increase in fishing license sales in MN this year. More people who used to travel are staying closer to home and are going fishing instead.

Improved information also has the benefit of spreading people out. It used to be an article that had the top ten lakes in it that everyone read. Now we have the top 100 heck top 1000 lakes being talked about on the Internet.

At this point we aren't going to stop the sharing of information. Espeically on big lakes like Mille Lacs. You can personally stop sharing that info but it will still get out there.

In my opinion we're better off getting reports on EVERY muskie lake, every walleye lake, every crappie lake, every bass lake and so on....

That type of info sharing is good for everyone and will reduce your crowding problem much more so than trying to keep it quiet.

It's human nature...and it's almost impossible to keep a good bite quiet for long anymore.

As you pointed out Tim, the best bite has been reported and It has come and gone...

In my opinon it is preferable to spread em out with more info

I like things to myself on the waters as well but it just isn't always going to happen so I enjoy others success when that happens.

Hope everyone has a great time chasing muskies and all the other fish we are blessed with in our waters.

[p0007]

In theory I think Rick is right about sharing information about every lake, however it ends up most of the information posted and read is about the same few lakes, thus the pressure and related problems that have become a point of frustration for many.

I believe this forum is a wonderful tool for sharing of a lot of different types of useful information, it is the readers responsibility to sort the good and b.s. out. It seems as though it may have come to the point where specific fishing reports to a specific lake may be information that is best not plastered all over message boards, sure people will still talk, but it seems to be more common for many people to make decisions based on internet reports alone...