Sioux Logo

[PierBridge]

It looks like the Sioux logo is going to be changed after next season.

Published April 08 2010

N.D. higher ed board retires Fighting Sioux nickname, logo

UPDATED 5:59 P.M.

Action follows N.D. Supreme Court ruling that OKed board's right to drop nickname, logo; SBHE's original May 2009 decision stands

The State Board of Higher Education decided today to retire the UND Fighting Sioux logo and nickname and directed Chancellor Bill Goetz to so advise UND President Robert Kelley and urge him to begin the transition.

By: Chuck Haga, Grand Forks Herald

MAYVILLE, N.D. -- The State Board of Higher Education decided today to retire the UND Fighting Sioux logo and nickname and directed Chancellor Bill Goetz to so advise UND President Robert Kelley and urge him to begin the transition.

The board's president, Richie Smith, brought up the logo issue at the end of an all-day meeting, noting that as the board convened this morning the N.D. Supreme Court affirmed a district court ruling that struck down an injunction that had been sought by several members of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe.

Smith noted that the board had voted in May 2009 to retire the name. Lifting the injunction put that action back into effect, he said, and unless he heard a motion to reconsider "the name is dropped."

Board member Claus Lembke of Bismarck offered a motion to reconsider, but it died for a lack of a second.

At that point, Smith turned to Goetz and directed him to send a letter to Kelley recommending the transition begin.

"We didn't have the votes on the motion to reconsider," board member Grant Shaft of Grand Forks said.

He and board member Duaine Espegard, also of Grand Forks, said they had calculated such a vote would fail on a 4-4 tie.

"I am a longtime Grand Forks kid so I find it kind of sad," Shaft said of today's decision.

Espegard agreed. "I think it is a sad day," he said. "I don't look at it as a win for anybody. I see it as reality."

'A new set of challenges'

Kelley said the board's action today was not a surprise.

"It is a matter now of managing a transition," he said.

"I am happy to have a new set of problems to solve," he said.

"This is going to be a new set of challenges, and it is going to be hard work for everybody."

Kelley said that people "all over the country are watching to see how we handle this," including thousands of UND alumni.

Noting that many alumni are passionate about the logo and nickname, he said they also have proven to be "very resilient."

Kelley said he will call the commissioner of the Summit League Friday morning "and say the board finally acted."

[cbrooks]

I really don't have any strong opinion one way or another. The way I see it, if the name offends a certain group of people we should change it. I know alot of people will miss the old logo but its not a big deal really. There's alot of ulgy history with this nickname change. Its nice to see a UND president make a decision on this and good for him. You just had a feeling the name wasn't going to last when the new Ralph was built.

The one thing I do like that can be related to the name is when they do the national anthem at hockey events at the end of the "Star spangle banner" where they go "home of the brave" the crowd says "Sioux" instead of "brave". I will miss that part of the old nickname.

[cbrooks]

The next question is what is going to be done with all the indian head logos in the Ralph Enstad arena?

[Steve Foss]

The next question is what is going to be done with all the indian head logos in the Ralph Enstad arena?

They'll be gone. If they auction them off, I'd bet there are a fair number of alums who will pay a chunk of change for them.

Onward!

[cbrooks]

I was thinking maybe they could change the name to something where they didn't need to remove the indian heads. That logo can be alot of different maskots...maybe.

[Bear55]

My condolences Sioux fans, as much as I love to hate UND I would have never wished this on them. They really had the best name/logo in all of college hockey, I kind of feel like a little college hockey history is being erased. Too bad old Ralph isn't still around, needless to say I think things would have turned out a little more like the Florida Seminoles.

[so haaad]

As a Gopher fan, I'm disappointed to see the Sioux logo and nickname go. It will be interesting to watch this unfold.

[Steve Foss]

I feel a bit of nostalgic sadness, it is true. I graduated from Grand Forks Central High back when the nickname was "Redskins." It went to "Maroon and Gray" (very stupid, if you ask me) to "Knights."

It'll be an interesting process with UND, that's for sure. If they go back to flickertails, I'm going to go postal! There's only room for one team of rodents in the WCHA!

Good thing I've still got my Sioux game jersey with my name on the back. And Dad's got a much older jersey with the Blackhawk head logo on it which likely will be coming my way some day. It's one thing to look ahead, quite another to forget what went before.

I wonder if the good folks at the Ralph will forbid wearing of Sioux memorabilia. I sure hope not, but there are behavior Nazis all over the place these days.

[scsavre]

So a couple things, are they really going to change it, as this has been going on for way too long.

Second, will they be allowed to play in the Ralph? I am sure they will. I was at the conference up there when Ralph said no one but the Sioux, with logo would ever play in the rink. If they drop the Logo, I feel there is absolutely no possible way in heck they should ever be allowed to play in the Ralph again. Obviously I want there to be Sioux hockey. But when someone builds you a rink, and obviously helps builds you a successful program because of the rink. How can you break the rules that were in his trust. Would this not be illegal too. When building the rink he had an agreement that it was for the Sioux only. I cant remember his quote that day, something along the lines of lock the doors and only let the youth teams in, or something.

If I die and i put in the trust that Savres should only be allowed to own my cabin....... it better happen.

[Steve Foss]

Scott, my Dad says there's nothing in the agreement or Ralph's will that will force UND out of the arena after a name change. Dad has researched and written about it for quite some years.

Whether one feels it's ethical to continue playing in an arena designed for the Sioux after the name no longer is used, well, that's another matter. No doubt there are lots of opinions out there on that from both the UND and non UND people.

Me, I say if it's gonna get done, then let's quit flapping lips and let's get 'er done so we can get on with the important thing -- UND HOCKEY!

But that would go against human nature. No doubt there will be much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth as things move forward, angst and nostalgia because of the loss of the name and controversy over which name/logo to adopt. It ain't ever as easy as it should be.

Ralph had it designed to make it amazingly expensive to remove the 2,400-2,500 Sioux logos throughout the arena. His way of adding practical roadblocks to the name change. Not every Sioux reference will go. As part of a settlement with the NCAA, UND won some concessions. The following items will stay:

1. Championship banners, photos, trophies and statues, such as the Sitting Bull statue in front.

2. Images that would be cost-prohibitive to remove, namely the logos in the granite floor.

3. Images the arena may replace over time: These include carpeting, turf, wood flooring, medallions on the seats and railings, lighted logos outside and etched glass door.

Brad Schlossman, who now covers Sioux hockey for the Herald, wrote that they will still be known as the Sioux next year, and that the transition will begin in 2011.

[scsavre]

Good, I want them to be able to play there. Lets get this junk over with and move forward. No more appeals and votes. Everyone is still going to yell lets go Sioux and wear there Jerseys. I say go with no mascot. Atleast then it will still be Sioux. But on a business standpoint, they will make alot of money when people have to go out and buy their new merchandise.

Wish I knew the specifics, when I was there, years back. Ralph had a spur of the moment little announcement. That is when he said, it had to be a Sioux team playing there. I remember he said he donated the building, but he controlled the land and who could come in. Wish I was paying better attention. It was very amusing though. And not long after they addeded all those Sioux logos on the seats.

[Steve Foss]

Scott, Ralph wrote a letter to then UND Pres Charles Kupchella threatening to stop construction of the arena after spending about $35 million unless UND kept the Sioux name. This came in the middle of a lot of hemming and hawing by Kupchella. I think that's where the idea came that UND couldn't ever play in the Ralph again if they changed the name.

It's clear as crystal that Ralph will turn over in his grave with this decision.

There's quite a lot about the controversy over the years on Wikipedia. Not that a non UND fan would want to spend all that time wading through it. But it is there for the reading.

[scsavre]

HAHA, I do have a little more insight than the average Sioux hater, as unfortunately my wife went to UND. (I am still not over this by the way.) She served on the board of higher education for a couple of years. During a lot of the discussions.

I have not researched much. Looked stuff up, lots of hear say. I just go by what Ralph himself said in front of about 15 people including myself, at the rink a few years back. Most of which was scattered ramblings.

Side note, I saw his private plane one time, 727 or something, pretty amazing. Gold and different marbles and what not all over. Impressive.

I still cant believe I married a darn Sioux fan, lord be with me for I have.......

[titelines]

I will miss it too. The black sweater is the best in the league - hands down!

That being said - I think they should go so milk toast that they just mock the decision and show that they have a sense of humor about it. Go to the extreme other spectrum and maybe people will realize that there are really more important things to fight about. There's a community college in AZ that faced this and, after putting to a student vote, they ended up being renamed The Artichokes.

How about Fighting Flu? They could have a thermometer showing a really high fever on the jersey.

Fighting Through?

Fighting Doo-Doo?

Fighting Stew? I can see it now - A big bowl of steaming beef stew on the front of the sweater.

Fighting Mad?

[Steve Foss]

HAHA, I do have a little more insight than the average Sioux hater, as unfortunately my wife went to UND. (I am still not over this by the way.) I still cant believe I married a darn Sioux fan

Hey, now we know where the touch of class in your household comes from.

Sorry man, couldn't resist. When you're a Sioux fan, everyone else is just a fan of "those other teams."

[cbrooks]

It sounds like the standing rock reservation is mad that they didn't get a vote on the nickname change. How ironic that the very people that we are trying not to offend are now showing there support in keeping the nickname now. It now looks like the only people that wants to change the name is The State Board of Higher Education in ND.

[Black_Bay]

"Scoring for the Fightin' Sugar Beats, number 7 Danny Kristoooooooooo"

[Bear55]

It sounds like the standing rock reservation is mad that they didn't get a vote on the nickname change. How ironic that the very people that we are trying not to offend are now showing there support in keeping the nickname now. It now looks like the only people that wants to change the name is The State Board of Higher Education in ND.

That is because it would make way too much sense to let all the tribe members vote for themselves, you would think people with a "higher education" would know that.

[Bear55]

"Scoring for the Fightin' Sugar Beats, number 7 Danny Kristoooooooooo"

I like that name, those Fighting Sugar Beats are mean too! Just about every duck/goose hunting trip out to ND one of them sees my MN plates and jumps off the beat truck to attack me.

[Steve Foss]

It now looks like the only people that wants to change the name is The State Board of Higher Education in ND.

Don't forget the NCAA.

[cbrooks]

I don't think that changing the nickname was going to be as quiet as I once thought. If anybody want more info on this topic...the name "Brad Schlossman". He's a writer for the local paper here in GF.

[PierBridge]

I guess I'd have to disagree a bit here. I believe if you polled all Native Americans it would be overwhelmingly in favor of having the logo removed.

Now if you were to thrown in the compensation "MONEY" factor as in the FSU Seminole example you'd have a much closer vote!

IMO>>>

[goblueM]

when it all boils down to it, its a name and a logo. people will move on. I'm not terribly big on PC stuff by and large, I think we are too sensitive as a society sometimes.

however, its a school nickname and logo, lets look at the big picture, get it changed and move on to more important things

[NoWiser]

Having a twin sister, I find the name of Minnesota's baseball team very offensive. And, now the sign at Target field that I saw pictures of; the one that lights up when they hit a homer......well, that just spreads the stereotype that all twins look the same and are the same sex. I tell you what, it is just hurtful.

Come on, are people really offended by the name of the Fighting Souix or are they just looking for a reason to whine and get attention? This country is turning into a bunch of sissies, if you ask me. I'm sure if I looked back far enough in my family history I could find something to complain about. But, you know what, I have better things to worry about. Like whether or not to get my cold-cut combo at Subway toasted or not tonight.

[scsavre]

So one last thing here. Is it the Board doing this or the tribes. When it was the tribes there were a lot of angry alum and some ND residents who in retaliation mentioned things such as cutting funding. By cutting funding I mean the many many and many more dollars that go to the tribes for free education at the universities. Granted they dont use all the money that is thrown at them because some tribe members have no interest in college.

So if the tribes wouldn't support the logo from being used, why should the state colleges support tribes by giving them free education.

I have to think it is because of the tribes the logo is being removed. The NCAA rule was that schools had to get permission. UND didnt get it and tried for years.

Either way move on.

Is the mascot "gophers" taken yet. I cant remember if there is a hockey team....