careful where you park!

[trapperdirk]

You know I keep looking at the pics and trying to find a way out but to me it's very obvious that you shouldn't park there . The signs are there and very legible . It's not like they are buried under 4 ft of snow plus it is an access to the top for others .Yes you may not be able to see lines on the road but not often can you in the winter even in maintained areas unless there is a meltdown from salting . Another reason for signs such as these . You can see them clear in this case . No snowbank tree or anything else obstructing the view .

I think your SOL but try to fight it as is your right if you disagree but don't think the courts will be sympathetic in this regard because it concerns the rights of people who have physical challenges to contend with .

TD

[DTro]

I consider myself a pretty observant guy, so is the area really really that obvious to be totally dedicated to a Handicapped zone???? By the pictures I sure don’t see it. I bet 8 out of 10 people would park where that Dodge is parked.

We can’t really say for sure where shnelson was parked, just that it was “left of where the Co’s truck is”.

If that is the case, then both vehicles left an opened marked handicapped spot. Let me ask all the people who say that he doesn’t have a case. How is anyone supposed to know that there is a loading zone there?

If this was me, I would drive around and find a few handicapped spots in the area that don’ t have a loading zone and take a few pictures of those as well.

[shnelson]

Good call on checking out other spots dtro, I know i've seen plenty that weren't accompanied by a loading zone in the area.

trapperdirk, I think you might be confusing the trail behind the parking spaces with the actual roadway to the launch. The tracks you see are just where someone ripped up the hill with a a snowmobile, not a dedicated travel path by any means. The actual roadway is to the left in all of the pictures.

I'd like to thank everyone for all of your input so far. It has really helped me gain a wide perspective on the situation, from many points of view. You are all correct in the fact that I will make every effort to avoid these predicaments in the future.

I think what is really driving this one for me is how sour the interaction with the CO was. I could see the excitement in his eyes to label me as a lawbreaker - I mean, did I just rob a bank or something? To pour salt into the wound, he went on to tell me in a later discussion that he'd be lenient on someone not properly displaying their registration for their ice shelter (which the regulations clearly state are required for all shelters on the ice). Guess I don't get the luxury of that same gray area in his eyes.

[croixflats]

To me, yes it is obvious. Of course I deal with trying to find handicapped spaces on a regular basis and deal with a lot sh-- out there. That's the point we should be sensitive to the needs of the disabled. Just because its not marked clearly, to say to one's standards, does it make it right to park there or assume 2 spots on the ends is acceptable for a whole parking lot, or take those spots thinking they wont be used anyways. think about it.

The decision was not to drive on the water because it was not safe. If the same amount of thought went into parking maybe we wouldn't have this conversation now.

This can can be a learning experience and an eye opener for all of us.

[croixflats]

To me, yes it is obvious. Of course I deal with trying to find handicapped spaces on a regular basis and deal with a lot sh-- out there. That's the point we should be sensitive to the needs of the disabled. Just because its not marked clearly, to say to one's standards, does it make it right to park there or assume 2 spots on the ends is acceptable for a whole parking lot, or take those spots thinking they wont be used anyways. think about it.

The decision was not to drive on the water because it was not safe. If the same amount of thought went into parking maybe we wouldn't have this conversation now.

This can can be a learning experience and an eye opener for all of us.

Shnelson hope you don't think I'm picking on you or anything like that. I understand where your coming from and all, I'd be upset also especially when the CO could have just handed out warnings. I see this as the same of a CO or sheriff cruising parking lots for expired tabs.

[DTro]

Ok for those that it's not so obvious to:

Wouldn't a

"I see you left a handicapped spot open here, but techincally the whole are is handicapped only, please don't let me see you parked here again"

be sufficient?

[Big Dave2]

I consider myself a pretty observant guy, so is the area really really that obvious to be totally dedicated to a Handicapped zone???? By the pictures I sure don’t see it. I bet 8 out of 10 people would park where that Dodge is parked.

We can’t really say for sure where shnelson was parked, just that it was “left of where the Co’s truck is”.

If that is the case, then both vehicles left an opened marked handicapped spot. Let me ask all the people who say that he doesn’t have a case. How is anyone supposed to know that there is a loading zone there?

If this was me, I would drive around and find a few handicapped spots in the area that don’ t have a loading zone and take a few pictures of those as well.

I agree with DTRO 100%. All of you who say it is "obvious" that shnelson was parked in a loading zone are also for the most part the same ones that were saying it was "obvious" there was also a trail leading from the area which appears to be untrue. I myself dont see it as obvious, neither did my wife when I showed her the pics. I myself would have never thought of that area as a loading zone especially since the sign did not specify the site as a "van accessible" site.

It is always easier to be a monday morning QB and know that the site was off limits after the story was told and you know what these sites are. I agree with DTRO, 8 out of 10 people would probably not think twice about parking in a site directly next to a handicap parking sign.

Also, these sites are easier to tell where the loading zones are once you know that there are loading zones but what about accessible sites that are surrounded on both sides by more parking spots? How is one to know which side of the handicap spot is off limits? The law states that there must be an 8' loading zone next to the site but it does not specify that it be on the right or left. If accessible sites do not need signage for the loading zones but are enforced even when the ground is covered with snow, how are we to know where the loading zone is on most sites?

[minnbowhunter]

Ok for those that it's not so obvious to:

Wouldn't a

"I see you left a handicapped spot open here, but techincally the whole are is handicapped only, please don't let me see you parked here again"

be sufficient?

Sounds pretty reasonable to me

[Big Dave2]

Ok for those that it's not so obvious to:

Wouldn't a

"I see you left a handicapped spot open here, but techincally the whole are is handicapped only, please don't let me see you parked here again"

be sufficient?

Absolutely, but that would require common sense.

[croixflats]

Ok for those that it's not so obvious to:

Wouldn't a

"I see you left a handicapped spot open here, but techincally the whole are is handicapped only, please don't let me see you parked here again"

be sufficient?

Didn't I just say that? Not those exact words but a warning is pretty much the same thing

[PierBridge]

I know I get excited for early Ice and I'll often try for the closest possible spot in order to get out quicker. But it doesn't look like the 6 or vehicles that are parked in the parking lot had to much trouble figuring it out.

The days of breaks and warnings are over so be careful.

Again I hope you win on some technicality.

[McGurk]

My bad: I thought that a groomed trail led off of the area (the sled burn). Either way, shnelson will have to tell us about the outcome. I agree with the sentiment that a warning would more than sufficed in this instance.

The good news is: we only have to worry about this for a couple more weeks until we are able to drive and park directly on the lakes. I'll be the first to say: I can't wait!

[DTro]

But it doesn't look like the 6 or vehicles that are parked in the parking lot had to much trouble figuring it out.

How do you know they didn't show up after those 2 spots were filled

[shnelson]

Here's a partial view of the lot from standing near where I was parked. When I arrived at the launch there were vehicles lined up all the way down to the lake (on both sides of the ramps), there was a car parked in front of the silver s10 blazer (putting him about 30' behind the handicap sign. There was also a vehicle parked in the handicap spot next to the dodge 4x4. No, he didn't have the necessary tags on his vehicle to be parked there either - the argument could be made that he was obstructing my visibility to the sign as well (I know, another excuse!).

My point here is that I was one of the vehicles parked further away from the lake, the spot I was in gave me no lazy/shortcut advantage and truly was just the next space I saw available to park in.

That morning I drove my truck to the bottom of the launch, unloaded my gear, then backed up the hill and into the spot next to the three vehicles that were already there, leaving the handicap space next to me completely open as that sign was very clear to me.

[pulleye16]

There we go, I don't mind part of my license fee to pay for someone's mistake. Just because he wont own up to it.

So Croixflats...you didn't have current tabs on your truck??? I don't mind part of my licsense fee to pay for your mistake. LOL

There's a hardware store two blocks from my house, One handicap and all the rest are not. I can park my car RIGHT NEXT to it, there's even a spot, with lines that says I can. So If I drive to a landing, and see a handicap spot with no signs indicating loading zone, I wouldn't hesitate to park in the spot next to it. And if the lot was full of snow, I'd give ample amount of room and wouldn't think twice.

Sorry about the ticket but at least you're not going down in vein...You probably just save the rest of us from making that(unfortunate) mistake!!!

[Big A]

I think one is certain you won't ever park in a Handi-Zone or Handi loading zone again.

I'm guessing the judge isn't going to be too impressed with your maintain the area defense which I find a stretch to say the least, but if he does let me know I just drove by a speed limit sign that had snow on it that was blocking the MPH for the area. I'd like an out if I ever get caught breaking the law!

Good Luck!

+ 1

[croixflats]

Originally Posted By: croixflats

There we go, I don't mind part of my license fee to pay for someone's mistake. Just because he wont own up to it.

So Croixflats...you didn't have current tabs on your truck??? I don't mind part of my licsense fee to pay for your mistake. LOL

There's a hardware store two blocks from my house, One handicap and all the rest are not. I can park my car RIGHT NEXT to it, there's even a spot, with lines that says I can. So If I drive to a landing, and see a handicap spot with no signs indicating loading zone, I wouldn't hesitate to park in the spot next to it. And if the lot was full of snow, I'd give ample amount of room and wouldn't think twice.

Sorry about the ticket but at least you're not going down in vein...You probably just save the rest of us from making that(unfortunate) mistake!!!

Didn't cost the the DMV a thing as it was parked on my own property. So I dont see how any money from license fee's would pay for this. Please explain how it would.

And if you would take into context that I was talking about charging the DNR a crime , the poster before was talking about, for not maintaining the sight, you will understand that money comes out of the DNR pot to pay for that. And its you and I and others that build that pot. Lets not forget if the CO has to go in and explain and it a day he is working we pay for that and thats one less CO out there. For what a parking ticket?

You know that's fine you disagree, is it necessary to single out and attack the person you disagree with. I see no purpose in that.

[Big Dave2]

You know that's fine you disagree, is it necessary to single out and attack the person you disagree with. I see no purpose in that.

Ha Ha Ha Ha, No one on this site ever does that!!!!

[croixflats]

Not as often as you may think. But for those that do I don't get what they are trying to accomplish except show contempt.

[shnelson]

Figured i'd give an update for those that were following this thread...

Went to court this morning, I was informed the fine amount would be $580 and some change - ouch!

Spoke with a volunteer attorney that hung out outside for some good advice, took that advice to the prosecutor and she offered the continuance for dismissal @ 6 months and $100 in charges. After understanding how much time I would burn up by pleading not guilty and taking work off to come in a couple more times, I couldn't accept the offer fast enough.

I am still sour about getting the ticket to begin with, but I am now educated that handicap spots have adjacent loading zones (marked or not) that my vehicle will never again occupy.

Thanks again everyone for your feedback, it really helped me understand all sides of the situation and the technicalities of the law.

[DTro]

$580? !!!!

I wonder how many "uninformed" people would have just paid the fine?

That is ridiculous.

Glad you found a solution and like you said probably came out money ahead when you factor in your time and energy.

[PierBridge]

Not too bad then.

In this particular case $580 is a absurd... heck even if it was high traveled dry commercial parking lot with everything marked clearly $580 is a bit steep.

Now go catch some Fish!

[DTro]

and from reviewing this thread, Pier was right on from day one on the $100 bill.

Nice call Gary.

[Scott Stein]

Went to court this morning, I was informed the fine amount would be $580 and some change - ouch!

so why do the signs say "up to $200 dollar fine"?

[eyebjim]

It's a bigger fine if there is no sign.