Divorce / Custody

[walleye vision]

Things at home have been really rough lately, and the wife is driving me bonkers. I think she has a severe case of depression or may even be bipolar. I'm constantly getting yelled at for trivial stuff. She refuses to talk to anyone and seek help, stating she'd rather split up before doing that. She is extremely hard headed and says counselling if for weak people. The bad news is we have a 9 month old child. She is great with the child, but is a terrible example of respect in a relationship (the way she treats me).

I'd be long gone except for our kid. I'm afraid that if we get a divorce, she'll get custody and I'll never see her again (she's from the east coast and WILL move back). If we were to get a divorce, and we would each get partial custody, could she move out of state and take our child with her? If I could get partial custody and have the child stay in the state I'd be elated. The last thing I want is not to see my daughter.

Anyone have any advice or experience with Minnesota divorce and custody laws? While I"m at it, any lawyer recommendations?

I really appreciate any help, I'm going nuts thinking about life without my child.

[JohnMickish]

Approximately how much does a divorce cost these days?

My divorce was 12 years ago and it was about $2500 then, in Fargo.

If your heart is not 100% set on divorce but feel it's the only way out, you might consider starting the proceedings and geeting a court ordered mental exam of the childs mother. That might serve as the wake up call.

Good luck dude, believe me, it does get better so hang in there. I can't give lawyer recomendations since mine was so long ago and when I got divorced it was in Fargo, ND. All I can say is if you want custody or shared custody, go for it. It will be worth every penny.

[DRH1175]

This is a tough one and first off I would like to tell you that you have all of our support here @ FM. Marriage can be tough at times for all of us. Before giving up make sure you both make every effort for your daughter. I am sorry to hear yours is to the point that it is. How long have you been married. When you say counciling was it for her? Or was it marriage counciling for the both of you. Marriage counciling is a great thing for every couple to have at some point. My wife and I had a rocky time about 3 years into our marriage. That is about the time when all the new ness wore off for us and you can really start to think Are We Really In love? At the counciling our councilor really pointed out the flaws we both have. But most importantly how to work together. With all fo this said. If she absoulutly won't agree to this, for you, or your daughter. Than I guess your marriage isn't important enough to her. There is no point in being miserable for many years. Even though you have a daughter you owe it to yourself first to be happy. Life is too short to suffer. If you do deside to get a divorce that yes, I woujwould tak to a lawyer, before making a move. Most lawyers will give you a free consultation before making a decision on what to do. I understand your worrys about her moving and taking your daughter with her. That would be scary to me too. Good luck and we will do what we can to support you here.

[walleye vision]

Chemist, I'm trying to email you or send you a PM, but it is saying I don't have access to view profiles. Is there a way I can contact you. I've got some questions for you.

[cementhead21]

Approximately how much does a divorce cost these days?

Thst all depends on home much of a fight it is ,, I am the one who wanted out in my divorce and filed the paper work,, My Ex all she wanted to do was fight,I left most everything behind and what i was ordered to get i havent got and things i needed for taxes and such i have to take her butt back to court again,which i will handle with out a lawyer,But for the most part you will need a lawyer ,, and in my case it cost me around 12000. It dont have to be you that causes the bils to run this high, my ex ran quit her job to qualify for a free legal aid lawyer which in turn flooded my lawyer with paper work. Little unknowen fact is you can appeal the divocre proceeding out come and then it goes before a 3 judge panel and no lawyers are typically involved then. and a heck of a lot cheaper

[Bearcat]

depression is nothing to take lightly. it is not just the blues. i like many thought that way for many years but i was ignorant of the facts. two year ago at age 46 I had a stroke. My left side is a little uncoordinatd and my memory was somewhat afected. its the depression. that has been the toughest of all to deal with. I finally gave in and took some meds. Big difference.The memory issues cost me my carreer. the depression almost cost me me. god bless and good luck.

[bucketmouth64]

Thanks for all the help and encouragement so far. It feels good to finally talk about this with someone. Bucketmouth and MNFishingguy: any legal references? I'd really appreciate it.

My ex initiated the proceedings. At the time we/I didn't have the money for separate lawyers. So she retained one and all I can say do not have the same lawyer. Find a way to get your own. I consulted with one after the divorce was done. He no longer is in family practice and I then talked to another one in the same firm (female). But last I heard she was on LOA for child birth. All you can do is find someone locally where you live and go talk/interview them and see if you are a good fit. This might cost $25-50 to do this with each person. With your wife's possible medical issue you may want to find one that has some knowledge in this area...maybe a female lawyer could be a good choice since they may know something about possible post partum depression and things of that nature. Do your research, get recommendations from acquaintances.

[Double D]

I am not divorced but I (a banker) have a lot clients who are.

Cross the t's, dot the i's and get it all in writing. I could tell you horror stories, especially if you have any assets in a business, farm, land, etc. Hopefully it doesn't get to that point for you.

Maybe one of her family could help you for the babies sake?

Best of luck to you, what ever the outcome may be.

DD

[walleye vision]

Update and question:

I spoke with an attorney and she told me that I shouldn't file for a divorce in Anoka Co. (where we live), because the county is unfavorable to fathers and has a practice of not granting joint custody unless there are unique circumstances.

Does anyone have an experience with a Anoka Co. divorce/custody battle? Was the lawyer right or is she uninformed. I can't exactly move to a more favorable county (which she advised). For one I can't afford it, and if I were to leave our existing house, that would show abandonment which would not bode well for me at all.

What do you guys think?

[Chef]

My dad got custody of me from his divorce and finished adopting my sister back in 1972, he tells me he was 1 of the first men in MN to do this. I know times have changed but get a good lawyer anything can happen. If shes unwilling to see her illness you cant force her to seek help, they have to seek it when they realize they have a problem. Hopefully things can be resolved without a court, been through it and its no fun for either side and creates more problems down the road.

I think my Dad was the first. He got full physical custody in 1965 when my Mom took off w/ the marriage Counselor and they took 3 of us across country on a wild drunken ride. The Feds caught them and forced our return--a made for TV movie.

You are not alone. Mine has the same afflictions, diagnosed and on a 3 different Meds daily cocktail. It's been and continues to be a very trying experience. Like living in Beirut at times with no sign of long-term improvement.

All I can say is if you're losing your temper and she calls 911, you're going away, not her. Take yourself out of the situation and don't engage. You will lose more than joint custody if you get clipped. Move into a friend's house or your own apartment while you figure things out and get your own help, regardless of what she is or isn't doing for herself. Don't be hesitant to ask for help, many of us are willing to help. Find faith in God if you don't have it already! He's waiting for us all to ask.

[Shack]

Things at home have been really rough lately, and the wife is driving me bonkers. I think she has a severe case of depression or may even be bipolar. I'm constantly getting yelled at for trivial stuff. She refuses to talk to anyone and seek help, stating she'd rather split up before doing that. She is extremely hard headed and says counselling if for weak people. The bad news is we have a 9 month old child. She is great with the child, but is a terrible example of respect in a relationship (the way she treats me).

I'd be long gone except for our kid. I'm afraid that if we get a divorce, she'll get custody and I'll never see her again (she's from the east coast and WILL move back). If we were to get a divorce, and we would each get partial custody, could she move out of state and take our child with her? If I could get partial custody and have the child stay in the state I'd be elated. The last thing I want is not to see my daughter.

Anyone have any advice or experience with Minnesota divorce and custody laws? While I"m at it, any lawyer recommendations?

I really appreciate any help, I'm going nuts thinking about life without my child.

I am still old school and Divorce (IMO) is not an option unless the wife or husband is moving out to live with another person or abuse is involved. Short of that, a commitment is a commitment and I said "for better and for worse" for a reason.

You want a (quick) eye opener on the effects of Divorce on the spouses and children, check out some of the Divorce chat rooms and websites on the net even before you contact an attorney.

I assume your wife is most likely in her late 20's or 30's. If a husband is not holding up his end of the bargain in a marriage, wives can get like this. I know the first thing to be said on both sides of the fence is "he/she is crazy". We never like to accept (men and women) that possibly we are to blame just as much as the other spouse when differences are had. our first reaction is defense.

The other thing is (from my observations) is younger wives do go threw periods like this. Stress, home life, work life, selfishness, who knows what causes this. I blame MTV reality shows myself LIFE IS NOT LIKE THESE SHOWS!!!! All I know from being a husband is just get threw these times. I recommend from my experiences to just ramp up being the husband of the year for awhile. You do not have to buy $10,000 worth of diamonds to do this either. Simple junk like a spontaneous hug/kiss, a random phone call/text during the day to see how her day is going, try to meet for lunch (even Subway or Tacobell) or bring her lunch to her work (co-workers of hers seeing this will make the effect last all day ) , go out to dinner at a restaurant about once a month, at least act like you are listening to her, but try and listen. Go to Wal-mart and buy an inexpensive arraignment of flowers for like $3.00-$4.00 for her if money is tight. Go head strong into basic house work around the house if you have not. That is a major killer in a relationship if you dump the majority (if not all) the basic work around house on one spouse. For now take the majority, but in the long run try to keep things about 50/50. Every 3 or 4 months, hit expedia, find a 5 star hotel downtown for under $100 per night, and take her to a hotel for the evening (the results of this are huge for the cost put forth. Plus you can enjoy it also.) This helps you and her. At first this stuff may seem like a major hurtle to accomplish. After a month or so, it becomes second nature and in my case life is much better for me in the long run.

Some times it takes low spots like this to show "us" men what we are doing is causing part of the issue(s). I have been their and very simple life adjustments can actually turn into major changes in your marriage for the better (with out a divorce).

Good luck!

P.S.

Most people do regret a divorce down the road. It will have a huge impact on you child (no matter what anyone says). If anything a separation would be a good idea. Once spouses who "love" each other, but are going threw hard times get a taste of actually being apart, they find their petty differences mean nothing. I know some people who did this and for the last 20 years they made it work.

[Black_Bay]

Update and question:

I spoke with an attorney and she told me that I shouldn't file for a divorce in Anoka Co. (where we live), because the county is unfavorable to fathers and has a practice of not granting joint custody unless there are unique circumstances.

Does anyone have an experience with a Anoka Co. divorce/custody battle? Was the lawyer right or is she uninformed. I can't exactly move to a more favorable county (which she advised). For one I can't afford it, and if I were to leave our existing house, that would show abandonment which would not bode well for me at all.

What do you guys think?

I personally don't have experience with divorce court in Anoka County, and hope I never do, but a friends of mine have. Only one involved children, and what you have heard is true. My friend and his wife had everything worked out, custody, money, who got the house, cars, etc. Once they hit the court room the first thing the judge said was where are your lawers. They both replied we have everything worked out officially, signed, sealed and don't need lawers. The judge went ballistic and told them not to return until the both get lawyers. My friend ended up with everyother weekend custody with a some time during the summer and revolving holidays. He also got the privilege of paying $1000+ a month in child support for both kids. If he got a new job or increase in pay his ex could take him back to court to increase payments. Anoka county is a bad place for fathers during divorce proceedings.

[wishing for walleyes]

Hang in there Walleye Vision. It seems like the court system is tougher on males. But as b-mouth says things are changing slowly.

One small piece of advice, Document everything dates, times,what happened, etc. it could help you if it comes down to a divorce.

Good Advice

Your lawyer can only be as good as the weapons you arm them with.

If its costody you want..make sure you really want that, Then fight for your daughter.

I have 4 daughters that are all grown now.I divorced 10 years ago and my divorce started out with me being thrown out of the house with an order of protection against me.(The price i payed for threatening the other guy).In the end i won sole custody and raised my daughters.I never once downed my x to my daughters and to this day am rewarded with very happy and well adjusted daughters.2 of them are in college and my oldest has been through college.Its all about what you want and how bad you want it.

[walleye vision]

[Black_Bay]

Originally Posted By: Black_Bay

Well if that aint a punch to the gut I don't know what is. It makes me so upset that the courts can be so biased against fathers. Why not let the 2 do what they agreed to. There is no reason the judge had to stick his nose in there and go on a power trip.

I really don't want to get a divorce, and i'll continue to try and make it work. But, if she keeps acting the way she does, it is not a healthy example of how to be in a relationship. I don't want my daughter to learn from her actions. [/quote']

When I was told, by both parties involved so the story is true, it was shocking. The judge, a woman for what it's worth, is well known to be not at all supportive of fathers. I can see a reason to add lawers is so that each party gets fair representation, but this judge seemed to be more interested in giving to my friend and padding some lawers pocket.

It's a tough situation and I wish you all the luck. Your daughter sounds like she has a great dad.

[blgoose]

Courts are biased

I am one of those rare instances where I am the father trying to collect money from a dead-beat mother. Before I had custody, the system was great at ignoring my circumstances. I found myself in the court system after a total of 3 accrued months of arrears. No the roles are reversed; mother owes 52 months worth and has not paid for 8 months - good thing the county has, again, revoked her capability to get a passport. No contempt hearing yet. I agree with the fact that there seems to be a heavy burden for men to prove hardship where do not. I have seen both sides of the coin in the same court (Anoka) and the system clearly favors women. Women have many choices these days.. be a stay at home mom, work part time, work full time with a child, collect welfare. Men still have the same 2 choices; either work, or go to jail.

[BobT]

Quote:

When I was told, by both parties involved so the story is true, it was shocking. The judge, a woman for what it's worth, is well known to be not at all supportive of fathers. I can see a reason to add lawers is so that each party gets fair representation, but this judge seemed to be more interested in giving to my friend and padding some lawers pocket.

Just because the judge required representative, doesn't mean they have to each hire their own and begin a battle. They could have hired one together or each separately and still came up with the same agreement.

Without knowing the "true" situation between the couple, I wonder if it was possible the judge was trying to protect one or the other. An abusive spouse could conceivably have enough control over the other that he/she could coerce the other into accepting the agreement they had. Even if you're a close friend, what goes on behind closed doors isn't always obvious.

Just a thought.

Edit: I will agree that the court system is biased toward the mothers. I also agree that this is slowly changing and there are support groups out there to help fathers cope with this bias.

[PierBridge]

Does anyone have an experience with a Anoka Co. divorce/custody battle? Was the lawyer right or is she uninformed.

The Lawyer is right.

[wishing for walleyes]

Courts are biased

I am one of those rare instances where I am the father trying to collect money from a dead-beat mother. Before I had custody, the system was great at ignoring my circumstances. I found myself in the court system after a total of 3 accrued months of arrears. No the roles are reversed; mother owes 52 months worth and has not paid for 8 months - good thing the county has, again, revoked her capability to get a passport. No contempt hearing yet. I agree with the fact that there seems to be a heavy burden for men to prove hardship where do not. I have seen both sides of the coin in the same court (Anoka) and the system clearly favors women. Women have many choices these days.. be a stay at home mom, work part time, work full time with a child, collect welfare. Men still have the same 2 choices; either work, or go to jail.

It might not be as rare as you think.My x owed $20,000 in rearages.Now that the kids are gone she has been paying and has it down to 14k.If she would have helped me when i needed the help i would forget about the rearages.Instead i will (and have)spent money to make sure she pays it.Our great system hardly slapped her hand to get her to pay...but it does not go away.

[Chef]

Originally Posted By: walleye vision

Things at home have been really rough lately, and the wife is driving me bonkers. I think she has a severe case of depression or may even be bipolar. I'm constantly getting yelled at for trivial stuff. She refuses to talk to anyone and seek help, stating she'd rather split up before doing that. She is extremely hard headed and says counselling if for weak people. The bad news is we have a 9 month old child. She is great with the child, but is a terrible example of respect in a relationship (the way she treats me).

I'd be long gone except for our kid. I'm afraid that if we get a divorce, she'll get custody and I'll never see her again (she's from the east coast and WILL move back). If we were to get a divorce, and we would each get partial custody, could she move out of state and take our child with her? If I could get partial custody and have the child stay in the state I'd be elated. The last thing I want is not to see my daughter.

Anyone have any advice or experience with Minnesota divorce and custody laws? While I"m at it, any lawyer recommendations?

I really appreciate any help, I'm going nuts thinking about life without my child.

I am still old school and Divorce (IMO) is not an option unless the wife or husband is moving out to live with another person or abuse is involved. Short of that, a commitment is a commitment and I said "for better and for worse" for a reason.

You want a (quick) eye opener on the effects of Divorce on the spouses and children, check out some of the Divorce chat rooms and websites on the net even before you contact an attorney.

I assume your wife is most likely in her late 20's or 30's. If a husband is not holding up his end of the bargain in a marriage, wives can get like this. I know the first thing to be said on both sides of the fence is "he/she is crazy". We never like to accept (men and women) that possibly we are to blame just as much as the other spouse when differences are had. our first reaction is defense.

The other thing is (from my observations) is younger wives do go threw periods like this. Stress, home life, work life, selfishness, who knows what causes this. I blame MTV reality shows myself LIFE IS NOT LIKE THESE SHOWS!!!! All I know from being a husband is just get threw these times. I recommend from my experiences to just ramp up being the husband of the year for awhile. You do not have to buy $10,000 worth of diamonds to do this either. Simple junk like a spontaneous hug/kiss, a random phone call/text during the day to see how her day is going, try to meet for lunch (even Subway or Tacobell) or bring her lunch to her work (co-workers of hers seeing this will make the effect last all day ) , go out to dinner at a restaurant about once a month, at least act like you are listening to her, but try and listen. Go to Wal-mart and buy an inexpensive arraignment of flowers for like $3.00-$4.00 for her if money is tight. Go head strong into basic house work around the house if you have not. That is a major killer in a relationship if you dump the majority (if not all) the basic work around house on one spouse. For now take the majority, but in the long run try to keep things about 50/50. Every 3 or 4 months, hit expedia, find a 5 star hotel downtown for under $100 per night, and take her to a hotel for the evening (the results of this are huge for the cost put forth. Plus you can enjoy it also.) This helps you and her. At first this stuff may seem like a major hurtle to accomplish. After a month or so, it becomes second nature and in my case life is much better for me in the long run.

Some times it takes low spots like this to show "us" men what we are doing is causing part of the issue(s). I have been their and very simple life adjustments can actually turn into major changes in your marriage for the better (with out a divorce).

Good luck!

P.S.

Most people do regret a divorce down the road. It will have a huge impact on you child (no matter what anyone says). If anything a separation would be a good idea. Once spouses who "love" each other, but are going threw hard times get a taste of actually being apart, they find their petty differences mean nothing. I know some people who did this and for the last 20 years they made it work.

Sound Advice, Shack, that's good stuff. Your'e a Westwoodie aren't you?

[Ed Carlson]

In all this I have not seen and feedback on if she wants a divorce, or if it is just you who does at this point, and largely due to a fear she also wants one....but you want to be the one who acts on it first?

If your only forward looking strategy for this marriage is planning for a divorce, you already made your decision.

It takes two to make it work, and only one to walk away from it. It sounds to me that the decision is already made on your part, if so...be fair...tell her.

[FishNovice101]

WalleyeVision,

Since you indicated that you live in Anoka County, I'll make a suggestion.

The Anoka-Hennepin School District has a Continuing Education program. They are offering a one-night class on Jan 26 titled "Divorce: The Legal Aspects" It is taught by a lawyer.

It is cheap, and you could ask some of these important questions.

Here is the web address: www dot anoka dot k12 dot mn dot us/education/components/scrapbook/default.php?sectiondetailid=226917&

Good luck

[Shack]

Your'e a Westwoodie aren't you?

No

Just a guy who lived his life in his 20's like a cross between Archie Bunker and Al Bundy. By the time my wife and I turned 30, I learned quickly that if I wanted to stay married I would have to change. At the time I said the same things "she is nuts and crazy", but I took a look and found I was to blame for her unhappiness at times for the most part. Most times for us men, it is too late when we realize our manly selves are to blame. Sure there is legitimate times where the wife is clinically insane or medically ill.

You can only be gone during the winter so many weekends in a row ice fishing, summer all night catfishing, then have other projects before things wear thin

[Brad B]

I just completed going threw my divorce(finalized 12-17-09) and the first thing like was said already is get a good lawyer especially after what I read here about anoka county. as far as custody goes all lawyers will at first ask for sole physical and legal custody for their client but in the end of the proceeding it normally is that the custody would be joint legal and physical. the only exception to this would be if there is documented physical abuse by either party. as far as your concern about her moving out of state. it could be written in the final marital termination agreement that neither party my leaves the state unless both parties agree to it. this is how my agreement was written and mine went one step farther and said that my son had to stay in his current school district do to the fact that he is getting special help from the school(he is 3 and is developemental delayed, he doesn't talk yet). As far as child support goes the is a calculator online that you can use to get a idea of how much child support would be. In my case I got off easy in that what I make per hour is only $.64 more than her. in my case the numbers showed I would of owed her only $25.00 a month but we both agreed to reserve the child support(meaning neither of us had to pay the other) in exchange for me agreeing to pay our son's monthly insurance premiums for his health insurance which is only $13.60 a month) and we also agreed to split his doctor bills 60/40 with me paying the 60%. the amount of child support is also based on how much time you have the child in your care. in my case I have my son 47% of the month and my ex wife has him 53% of the time. so my suggestion would be to find away you would get atleast more than 45% of the time with the child. if you fall under the 45% you will have to pay higher amount for child support. one thing I would recommend also is that you look into attending a parenting through divorce class(this was required in all counties in minnesota at one time but now is not except for a handful of counties that still require it, my county being one of them that require it.)it was put together by the minnesota extension service and is overseen by the parenting through divorce office in monticello their address is po box 485 monticello, mn and thier phone number is 763-295-4302.

[walleye vision]

Ed,

To answer your questions: Some days she says she wants to be apart, and others not. I've been trying to make it work and still do. I'm holding out hope that I don't have to go down that road, but I must protect my interest with my kiddo if we have to. I'm willing/trying to make things work, she simply sees herself as perfect and thinks there is nothing wrong with her. It is hard coming home from work and getting screamed at for trivial things such as asking her to repeat herself if I didn't hear her, putting out an extra set of napkins for dinner because I didn't see she already did it, etc etc. It is a toxic environment for our child, and she doesn't care.

Brad,

Would you recommend your attorney? If so, could you pass along their contact info. Btw, great to hear that you got as much custody as you did.

[Cads]

I second the Postpartum Depression Theory. This is very common in most woman. I would look into this a little more rather than the other option. I hope everything works out for you.