Food plots = Baiting

[deerminator]

Neither one is an agricultural based use, we dont consume food plots nor do we harvest them, both are used to manipulate feeding and travel corridors, makes ya wonder.

This says it all. You can debate it all you want, food plots take more effort, require more work, are better for the deer, etc., etc. And for each arguement, you can counter it using common sense. Working harder doesn't mean you're a more ethical hunter. And talk to the deer farm owners. If you feed/bait the deer right, it can be much more nutritional than a corn or soybean field. And how many deer have gorged themselves to death on a cornfield food plot?

The bottom line is using a feeder or a food plot are very similar, but not in fact exactly the same. You're causing the deer to alter their travel patterns in each case. Food plots are legal and baiting isn't which is why food plots are acceptable or "ethical."

I hope the DNR never legalizes baiting, but not because its unethical, but because it will alter the way we hunt way beyond what food plots have already done. Food plots can be controlled somewhat because not everyone owns land. Everyone can bait if its legal.

Now good luck talking about how unethical and lazy baiting is for those who can do it legally in whatever states its allowed. But in my opinion, a guy sitting in box stand with a high-powered rifle hunting over a soybean field not for agricultural use is no more ethical or hard-working at getting his deer than one sitting over a feeder (as long as its legal in his state).

[luckey]

From a plot planter's perspective. This past spring and summer I planted the plot in the pictures below (pictures taken in late August). I sprayed (twice) the field (approximatly 1000 feet by 60 feet). I mixed fertilizer and seed (clover, chickory) and broadcast the area. The area is now eaten level with the ground. Did it help the local deer? I think so. It will help them even more next spring when the clover greens up. Did it help me shoot a deer? The closest deer I shot to this area was 3/4 to 1 mile away. So far this year no one in my party has hunted this plot.

East view

South view

West view

[hockeybc69]

Why is it OK for people to line ag fields with big box stands and not ok for people to to hunt over something they worked hard to get established themselves?

I gaurantee you that there is more consumable feed in an 80 acre cut corn field, compared to what most guys can get growing in their acre or two of food plots they work hard to maintain.

Pretty easy for a group of guys to just show up every fall and hunt over the hard work that some farmer put into the land all year; that in the end feeds a lot of deer in most cases.

Seems to me to be the opposite scenario.

The food plotters actually work for the reward. The groups that hunt farmers land seem to reap the benefits and do nothing in most cases, other than show up and go sit in the stand overlooking a big field of "bait".

[CANOPY SAM]

MuskyBuck. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day! Coupla' scrambled eggs, few slices of bacon and a piece of toast. It's only a buck or two if you rustle it up at home.

It's a scientific fact that skipping breakfast will make a person really cynical over 20 years.

[Big Dave2]

And the reason I don't like baiters in our state stealing from law abidders is how much bragging I hear from how well bait works. I see zero threads on here that rattling horns was the ticket or scents or deer decoys, or my trail cam patterned him perfectly or man they sure hit the salt or man my food plot was the answer. Those things can nearly become obsolete if bait is allowed, TV deer shows are not realty unless you own 1,000 acres or more, that's where a large % of shows are filmed, ever hear another gun shot on the show from a neighboring hunting group, not often.

Just because baiting works well, why does that make it "unethical"? I understand that it is illegal here in Minnesota and I am not neccesarily advocating for it to be legal, but what if it were made legal? Would you still consider it "unethical"? Do you consider anything illegal to be "unethical"? Laws are changed all the time. A year ago you could not drive your vehicle with an uncased firearm. This year you can. Was that "unethical" last year? How about this year?

[Big Dave2]

From a plot planter's perspective. This past spring and summer I planted the plot in the pictures below (pictures taken in late August). I sprayed (twice) the field (approximatly 1000 feet by 60 feet). I mixed fertilizer and seed (clover, chickory) and broadcast the area. The area is now eaten level with the ground. Did it help the local deer? I think so. It will help them even more next spring when the clover greens up. Did it help me shoot a deer? The closest deer I shot to this area was 3/4 to 1 mile away. So far this year no one in my party has hunted this plot.

If no one has hunted your plot yet, how can you comment on how successful it would be? If it is eaten down to the ground it is a sure bet that it is holding a population of deer nearby.

[bmc]

I have bowhunted over food plots (MN) and feeders with corn in them (Ontario).

Our food plot is about 2-3 acres. Because we had soooo many acorns this year, the deer pretty much ignored the food plot. Just because you have a food plot, it doesn't guarantee you a deer.

Rifle season '08 my daughter and I sat on the food plot 4 nights, before she took a shot at a small buck. 2 of the other nights we never saw a deer and the 1 other night we saw a couple fawns she passed on.

I don't believe food plots are "magic" and a guarantee to harvesting a deer. I believe a deer will concentrate on natural foods before it will start eating on a food plot.

On the other hand, when I bowhunted over feeders in Ontario, it was a given that I could of shot something if I had wanted to. As soon as the timer went off and the corn started filling the trough, the deer were running to the feeder. Heck, even if a red squirrel climbed up inside the feeder and a few kernels of corn rattled down into the trough, the deer would come running. It was great seeing all those deer, but it just didn't sit right with me. I'm actually glad I didn't shoot a deer up there, because it wasn't ethical in my opinion and would still bother me today. My dad set up the hunt and I had no idea some of the stands were within 20-30 yards of the feeders.

Granted, feeders are a little different than just dumping some bait on the ground, but it's basically the same thing.

Brian

[CANOPY SAM]

I think it kind of boils down to personal preference.

Personally, and this is just me mind you, I don't feel good about baiting bear, but in Minnesota it's legal. So how is this any different than baiting deer?

Answer: The MN DNR feels baiting is necessary to control our bear population, as "pursueing" the animal by other means results in far less hunter success.

Obviously, deer far outnumber bear in our state, so baiting shouldn't be needed to fill one's deer tag - or to keep population numbers in check. But not everyone agrees.

I think of myself as more of a "purist". I enjoy "hunting" game. I've taken very few deer from a stand. The great majority of my success has come from still hunting, or walking thru good cover. My feeling is that "hunting" implies an element of pursuit, or in other words, going after the animal I intend to harvest.

Altering an animal's normal movements, or patterns in anyway, either by feeding or providing food plots sort of diminishes the challenge - at least for me.

I truly enjoy "figuring out" the habits of deer, bear and other game. When successful, through careful preparation, and hard work, it makes the final outcome that much sweeter. That doesn't mean I won't hunt a field edge where I've scouted animal's movements.

I'm not saying this makes me a more ethical hunter. There seems to be a lot of gray area around what's ethical today, and what's not.

I also enjoy getting a stand positioned just right in an area where I've learned of deer or bear movement - and harvesting a nice animal from the stand I've placed. I don't need to put food out to be successful at this. But again, this comes from experience and personal preference.

If I did have land I would likely plant food plots designed to feed all the forest critters. Not to up the odds of filling my freezer, but to simply observe them.

On a slightly different, but analogous tangent...

What it really boils down to is what stage are we at in our lives in reference to our hunting and fishing experience?

1) Early on, most outdoorsman and woman are pleased to get pretty much anything. It's fun to be out and get something - yet at this stage we rarely know what to do with what we've got.

2) A little later in the game, when we gain some knowledge and experience we tend to want to "limit out" on everything. We're getting better at hunting and fishing.

3) Once we move on from this stage we typically want everything BIG! The trophy stage. We catch and release more fish, and often pass on smaller deer.

4) Lastly, we simply enjoy the experience of being outside, and perhaps a nice meal or two of wild game. If we haven't fired the gun or wet the net, we're not too dissappointed. We're just glad to not be at work!!!

It's in these early stages that people are tempted to do almost anything to bag game and fill tags. Lots of young hunters and fisherman live in the first few stages, and some adults never get out of these early stages and this often results in baiting, poaching, sky-busting, turf wars, etc.

Does this solve the dilemma between what's more ethical; baiting or food plots? Hardly, but I think it does apply to the conversation. Ask yourselves, what stage am I at as stated above? You might be surprised when you really get your mind around it. Maybe, when you think on it for a bit, you'll be ready to move on to the next stage?

[luckey]

Big Dave2,

"If no one has hunted your plot yet, how can you comment on how successful it would be? If it is eaten down to the ground it is a sure bet that it is holding a population of deer nearby."

Good point, I never said the plot was successful or not. But I did say it was munched to the ground. From the evidence left behind (droppings, tracks) I would say it really provided a lot of good nutrition this fall (and will also provide a good food source next spring) for many local deer.

Like "CANOPY SAM" said, he would "plant a plot to help feed all the forest critters and to observe them". I think this is the primary reason I put in this plot.

[SpitnArgueDuckClub*]

But you aren't adding that they are slaughtering deer in barren, no cover food plots ntrider. Baiting is a lazier form of hunting then doing drives, rattling, still hunting, etc. If we needed baiting our grandfather's would have had that voice heard years ago. Want lower than now deer numbers, let the baiting begin.

So can we safely say that if any of us see's a deer hunter in only a loincloth and chucking a spear that it is Musky Buck?

[luckey]

No spears allowed! You have to sit in a tree, drop down on them and wrestle them.

[96trigger]

Quote:

Seems to me to be the opposite scenario.

The food plotters actually work for the reward. The groups that hunt farmers land seem to reap the benefits and do nothing in most cases, other than show up and go sit in the stand overlooking a big field of "bait".

That is me, 100%. I have said before. I know people who have planted food plots down here, the deer walk through them to get to the ag fields. Instead of planting something like sugar beets and clover, they should just plant corn. When the snow flies, nothing will help the deer like a standing corn field. Unfortunately, this is a statement that holds zero value for me as all deer in the area are going to these fields, you wouldn't be able to shoot a deer down here if they were considered bait. BTW, have you ever tried to pinpoint where a deer will come out of the woods in an 80 acre field. Its not easy, it it were, I would have a lot more deer on the wall.

One thing to also add. I think we are again, each and every one of us thinking about our own back yards. If people baited and put in food plots down here, it wouldn't bother me very much. There is enough food and hunting pressure down here to keep the deer moving, I don't think it would be very effective. However, up North, in the big woods, where the ag lands are not found and corn would be like Christmas candy to a deer. The results are going to be very different. Keep that in mind as the debate rages on....

What bothers me about bait is the risk of disease. I am going to keep saying this until I am blue in the face, and weather you think I sould like a skipping record I really don't give a rip. They tested dear for CWD down here, it is a real issue. Nothing will decimate the deer population like removing half of it because of CWD. If CWD hits, we will quit talking about QDM, baiting, and ethics, and simply go back to, how can we get the population back?

We all do things to increase our success at hunting, however, all the calls, rattles, scents, etc... will not increase the risk of spreading a disease that endangers deer hunting as we know it. We can discuss it over and over again, I don't think it will ever be legal. Food plots just do not have the same risks.