Illegal deer baiting hits new levels.

[FishGUY]

Here is a report I found on-line and thought I would share.

Illegal deer baiting hits new levels

Chris Niskanen - 11/12/2009

From the Grand Forks Herald.

ST. PAUL — An “unprecedented” number of firearms were seized from Minnesota hunters last weekend as illegal deer baiting reached new high levels, say Minnesota Department of Natural Resources officials. Exact figures haven’t been tallied yet, but conservation officers across northern Minnesota seized dozens of firearms and handed out just as many fines, typically $385 each, to baiters. In District 1, which includes Roseau, Baudette and Thief River Falls, nine conservation officers made 28 deer baiting cases over the weekend and seized 25 firearms, according to Lt. Pat Znajda, the district supervisor. If convicted, hunters permanently will lose those 25 firearms, which, if valued at an average of $500 each, are worth an estimated $12,500. Conservation officers don’t have to seize firearms for illegal deer baiting, and some don’t, but Znajda said frustrated ethical hunters peppered his officers with baiting complaints before the season started. The complaints most often came from hunters fed up with a neighbor’s baiting. Some hunters showed up at Znajda’s house to complain about the illegal baiting they were seeing. “Some people were pretty bold about (their baiting),” Znajda said. “We had a DNR pickup parked next to a small airport, and someone was baiting just past the pickup. They would have had to drive past our pickup to place their bait.” Deer baiting has become “epidemic” in northern Minnesota, said conservation officer Jeremy Woinarowicz in his weekend report, and many officers are now spending the bulk of their opening weekends chasing illegal baiters, according to DNR officials. In the northern two-thirds of Minnesota, about 114 officers worked the deer opener and 67 reported either investigating or writing tickets for deer baiting in their weekend reports. Keith Backer of Blackduck reported that the largest buck he saw over the weekend was taken illegally over bait. Maj. Rodmen Smith, who oversees enforcement operations for the DNR, said he believed the number of firearms seized from the two-day opening weekend was unprecedented, because of the spike in illegal baiting. He said baiting essentially has become an accepted method of taking deer for some people. “I worked on Sunday and went on some baiting cases in the Mankato area,” he said. “I heard two different parties say something that was disturbing. They said they cleaned up their bait when the ‘baiting season’ is over. That means they clean up the bait because it has to be gone 10 days before the start of the season. Apparently, people are in the mindset now that there is a baiting season — and it ends 10 days before the season.” DNR officials say seizing a firearm is one of the most effective means of getting the message across that officers are serious about enforcing the state’s baiting laws. Smith said illegal baiting began “to explode” in the early 2000s, and by 2006, the DNR faced a situation that appeared to be getting out of hand. The agency always has had the authority to seize firearms in baiting cases, but most officers used their discretion. In 2006, with baiting getting worse, the agency stepped up its efforts and sent a directive stating firearms seizure was a uniform option for officers. The baiting fine was increased from $100 to $300 (court costs typically add an additional $85 to the fine). What more could be done to discourage hunters from baiting? One policy that has been floated is to make deer feeding and baiting illegal from Sept. 1 through the end of December. That change would require legislative approval. “If you put on a feeding ban, it would put everyone on a level playing field,” Znajda said. There is no doubt that this year’s slew of baiting cases is the result of ethical hunters turning in illegal baiters. Though aerial surveillance is a big part of the DNR’s baiting enforcement, many of its best investigations start with tips from other hunters. Ethical hunters can become savvy to baiting in their neighborhood, either by detecting shifts in deer movements or by field dressing a deer and finding corn spilling out of its guts. Officers say they get plenty of calls from hunters who have had that experience. Baiting has implications for transmission of diseases and certainly for the ethics of fair chase.

[Arctic]

What kind of [PoorWordUsage] needs to "hunt" deer over bait? Certainly not any kind of hunter. I say let there be a MANDATORY confiscation of firearms and a long-term ban on hunting for those idiots. Big fines and confiscation of vehicles and ATVs would be icing on the cake. The problem would go away fast.

Plus, real hunters could buy those firearms and vehicles at auction for bargain prices! As I like to tell my friends, you can never have enough guns!

[RumRiverRat]

Deer Hunters have turned Northern MN into the second largest Grain Storage Area in the world.

[NoWiser]

Couldn't agree with you more, Arctic.

[Musky Buck]

I rest my case. Thank you to the DNR and CO's for getting telephone ear at all hours of the season and taking on as much as you do. I appreciate that you realize we never needed baiting before nor do we need it as a way to hunt now. I appreciate the size of the area you must work in and for trying your best to create as level a playing field as possible. I apologize for the people that point the finger at you when fish are not finding their net or that game they pursue is not providing a satifactory hunting experience for them. Many of the finger pointers are fish and game violators. I appreciate you trying to break sophisticated and potentially dangerous poaching/over limit rings etc and they have police scanners, cell phones, etc. all the technology to try to not get pinched. I appreciate your long hours worked, when we are asleep. I appreciate your caring for our resources and wish you and your family good health and good fortune. MB

[CatchPhotoFilet]

The DNR is not to determine if baiting is ethical or not nor is any other hunter. Ethical is in the mind of the hunter. Hunting a bear over a bait sight one might not find ethical but another might. Using a hook with a barb on it while fishing some might not find ethical either. This goes to show that zero tolerance does not work and never will. This is not a matter of disease management its a matter of potential income for the DNR. what good does it do to take a gun away from a hunter who has a bait sight. most hunters have more than 1 gun anyhow. A simple 3 or 400$ fine gets the point across. Anyone who actually hunts over bait and has a gun that is worth some money over a 1,000$ should make sure that gun is trashed before they turned it over so it isint worth anything any longer. I am a avid hunter of mostly everything excluding deer and have several firearms worth or 1k a piece. There is not way I would ever surrender my firearm over to a dnr in mint condition to be resold to someone else. I dont find anything wrong with someone who wants to put out "bait" for a deer. Until someone can explain how a food plot and a baiting sight differ from their overall objective than baiting should not be allowed. Scents, Food plots, shelled corn or what have you all have the intended purpose. To harvest a deer! not everyone is able to grow a food plot that requires lots of money and land. To suggest that taking someones ATV or vehicle so "real hunters" can buy them at auction. Maybe "REAL hunters" shouldnt have to reply on other peoples misfortunes and property to shoot an animal. maybe "real hunters" should have their OWN things? People dont lose their cars for a first time dwi offense, nor do they lose their cars for 1 payment being late. Your wife doesnt divorce you the first time you upset her. To send a message to abolish all things cause you dont agree with it is pretty ignorant!

[Steve Foss]

Always, ethics are up to the individual. And as always when it comes to opinion and personal preference, there are those who will stomp on others simply because they have a different view.

Since baiting is illegal in Minnesota, it's illegal. Period.

If it were legal, then it would be up to the individual to decide whether it fell within their ethical framework. There are many, many Wisconsin hunters (including some members of my family) who don't bait at all even within the counties where it is legal because baiting doesn't satisfy their personal definition of being "ethical."

Legalities aside, I've always wondered why some people think it's ethical to bait bear but not deer. Surely it's exactly the same behavior. I'm not attacking anyone for baiting, I'm just raising the question.

[Musky Buck]

Catchphoto for a non-deer hunter how do you know. The DNR does know it's not fair chase and I know it. Leave all other species out of it. Thank the good lord it's illegal, if legal you could throw out all the scents,grunt tubes etc. because you'd have the best attractant. Baiting has changed many areas in our state already. It isn't the DNR calling TIP, it's law abiding hunters who are fed up with year after year neighboring groups who are stealing and selfishly baiting deer away from law abiding land owners in the area. Deer need shelter, water, and food to survive. But, I think we should all be polled when we buy a license for or against and if the hunters say legalize it, I'm actually ok with it, but you are opening another ugly door and problems will arise from it being legal also. I just thank the almighty one my grandpa's said baiting deer for the purpose of shooting them is a classless way to hunt. If your that desperate don't go and all 24 of us in our party received that speech years ago because 1 uncle was talking about doing it. The last comment was how __ ___ lazy are ya ? If my 80 year old grandpa's know it's questionable what's the deal. I don't mean to stomp on anyone but cmon man, watch a baited show and tell me that's hunting. That's shooting. It's so powerful an attractant I've seen missed shots only to hear, he's coming back etc on these shows got him this time. Cmon Man, forget other states, we have it right. I forget we live in lazy high speed, fast,easy, easy payments, free kind of world. Go out and rattle, use your scents, put out salt, use a deer decoy, try to channel them through a fence or whatever, but leave their stomach out of the equation. Thank You. PS. Bear vs Deer. Bears hibernate and can be tough to get even over bait. By the time bears hibernate the bait is gone. We would not harvest the hopeful quota of bear without bait. With deer we are harvesting the right amount without using bait. There's your difference.

[BrdHunter01]

The DNR is not to determine if baiting is ethical or not nor is any other hunter. Ethical is in the mind of the hunter.

The DNR has set laws banning bating.... To break the law IS unethical. If you cant obey the law you shouldn't be allowed to participate... Ethics goes much deeper your right and everyones mind set of what is or isn't ethical may vary... But you CAN'T break the law! Plain and simple...

BTW: Well said SF!

[Powerstroke]

I agree with Foss. If baiting were legal, then you can encounter the discussion of ethical or not.

Since baiting is ILLEGAL, it doesn't matter. Follow the law or pay the price.

Oh and, yes you can lose your car on your first DWI, if its bad enough. Late payments aren't illegal and neither is lying to your wife, but I bet more than one guy has been divorced for less.

I personally don't think baiting in any capacity should be allowed. That's my opinion. I also don't like party hunting, but that's legal. Therefore I use my own personal judgment and don't shoot anyone else's deer.

[Steve Foss]

. Bear vs Deer. Bears hibernate and can be tough to get even over bait. By the time bears hibernate the bait is gone. We would not harvest the hopeful quota of bear without bait. With deer we are harvesting the right amount without using bait. There's your difference.

[BrdHunter01]

Ethics can have a million different opinions... I believe obeying the law is ethical behavior and not obeying the law is unethical... There are many times when an unethical behavior is not against the law however, but thats for another topic... As for the coyotes example what if that bullet comes down from the warning shot and ends up hitting an innocent bystander? Would it still be an ethical action? As I said before ethics can go a million different ways. Everyone has their own opinion on what is or isn't ethical. If you breaking the law there should and most of the time there are repercussions. It is everyone personal opnion when your diving into ethics. Just obey the law and you shouldn't have a problem...

[delcecchi]

I have a little problem understanding the exact difference between a "food plot" and dumping sacks of corn on the ground. The ethical or moral difference that is. I get the physical difference.

[BrdHunter01]

I have a little problem understanding the exact difference between a "food plot" and dumping sacks of corn on the ground. The ethical or moral difference that is. I get the physical difference.

Thats a very interesting point...

[Steve Foss]

Ethics can have a million different opinions... As for the wolves example ...

Yep, ethics are personal.

It was coyotes, by the way, not wolves.

[alg]

<<<If it's ethical to bait bear it's ethical to bait deer.>>>>

Think about what you are saying. If that were true, then if it's legal to trap beaver, then it's legal to trap deer. If it's legal to run bear with dogs, then it's legal to run deer with dogs. Etc., etc., etc. They are two different things entirely.

[Still_Huntin]

Food plots aren't much different then ag fields in my opinion. The main reason people plant food plots is for the nutrition so bucks can grow bigger racks, most people with food plots are also into QDM.

It is legal to hunt over liquid baits, mineral blocks, deer caine, buck jam, ect.

I personally don't hunt over any baits or plots, it seems kind of unfair to me but if it's within the law it's ok for people to do.

People hunting over illegal baits need to grow up.

[alg]

<<<It is legal to hunt over liquid baits, mineral blocks, deer caine, buck jam, ect.>>>

I don't think it's legal to hunt over liquid baits, deer caine, buck jam, etc. if they have any food products (grains, etc.) in them. I know lots of places sell these products, but you need to read the ingredients to see if they're legal. Salt licks, mineral blocks (not with apple products) are legal.

[Musky Buck]

I see your argument now, sorry. It is just so blatant the reasons not to bait in our state I figured most would be on board. If my grandpa's knew it was not very fair chase 40 years ago how can't we know it today. If there's 1 ioda of a chance it could lead to spreading any disease by concentrating deer it's not worth it is it ? We can already hunt the rut, what better attractant is there than a hot doe. When is enough enough. I thank the almighty one for food plots. Last winter when food was short and crops were plowed under, some neighbors that have plots helped a ton of deer make it through the winter, they dug up those fields all winter. Now, those same deer are what we are hunting on the many properties in the area. I have no food plots could, but don't want to invest the money and time. Want a difference food plots help deer and other animals and birds have something of quality to eat some year round. Bait is for the hunter, food plots are for the animals and they turn sometimes almost unusable soil/terrain into something for wildlife. A bait pile has 1 purpose a food plot can have many. 1 is legal for many reasons, 1 is illegal for many reasons. Either way, I'm off to hunt for 10 straight days with no bait, no scents,no calls, no nothing but the 30-06 in 3 different tamarac swamps. Can you imagine me baiting in those, man I could steal the deer away from so many marginal properties. Regardless, good luck to you and congrats to those that have connected. As Nancy Reagan once said "just say no".

[Steve Foss]

<<<If it's ethical to bait bear it's ethical to bait deer.>>>>

Think about what you are saying. If that were true, then if it's legal to trap beaver, then it's legal to trap deer. If it's legal to run bear with dogs, then it's legal to run deer with dogs. Etc., etc., etc. They are two different things entirely.

I'm not talking about the law, I'm talking about ethics. They are often very different. The words "legal" and "ethical" cannot be used interchangeably in many situations. It was probably a mistake for me to try to make ethical (instead of legal) distinctions on this board, but what's done is done.

FWIW, I do try hard to "think what I am saying" on these forums before I hit the "submit" button. Doesn't always turn out the way I want it to, but I do think about it.

In the end, baiting in Minnesota is illegal, and the steep rise in baiting these last several years is likely disturbing to most of us. In Minnesota, it's lawbreaking, pure and simple.

[Still_Huntin]

I don't think it's legal to hunt over liquid baits, deer caine, buck jam, etc. if they have any food products (grains, etc.) in them. I know lots of places sell these products, but you need to read the ingredients to see if they're legal. Salt licks, mineral blocks (not with apple products) are legal.

I agree, I don't need to worry about it since I don't use any but a word of advice is to read the ingredients because they do sell baits and all the local sporting good stores that would be considered hunting illegal bait.

[fsh4trout]

All baiters should have there name added to a registry so when CWD sweeps through Mn, The state can tax half their yearly income to control the spread.

[BobT]

This thread is not about ethics; it’s about poaching deer. Whether you agree with a law or not doesn’t matter. You are still bound by the law just like everyone else. If you hunt deer over bait in MN you are in violation of the game laws and therefore you are poaching.

Last Saturday we got a deer shortly before 2:00 in the afternoon. It is a 2-mile hike back to our truck so we use ATVs to get there in the morning. It is a violation of hunting law to use our ATV from 2:00 until after dark. We had to wait for over three hours before we could use our ATVs to get that deer someplace to remove the hide so it could cool down. This put the meat at risk in that 59 degree afternoon sun. I want to be able to use my ATV any time during the day while deer hunting. Does that mean that I should be exempt from the law because I don’t like it? Absolutely not!

We all have the right and maybe even the obligation to work toward changing the laws we don’t agree with. That’s the avenue to take. Blatantly violating the law will do nothing toward getting it changed and most likely will have the opposite effect.

[gunmunky]

Do what "you" feel is ethical, stay within the law, and don't worry about the "other guy" and we will all be happy.

[CatchPhotoFilet]

I doubt grandpa used a inline muzzleloader or a rifle with the optics that everyone uses now. Todays trends cannot be compared to years of past! If someone wants to bait I say go for it. Just cause someone wants to bait does not mean they are out to shoot every deer that they see. Maybe they find it an easy way to QDM in their area? If every person who baits is put on a list id like to see everyone who smokes cigarettes get put on a list and pay part of my health insurance premiums that keep going up! Tolerance is the only way to combat an issue like this. I think most people who do bait are in the know to do it smartly and dont get caught. The only way a fish gets caught is when he opens his mouth. Anyone who baits is rolling the dice its a matter of is it worth the risk? thats up to the hunter to decide i suppose