Tarvaris Jackson

[zepman]

AWH...Are you on Fishin58's payroll??

[AWH]

I'm on my own payroll, zepman! And swimbait, no I would not like to see what T-Jack could do out there. I still don't think he's ready to take the reigns of a playoff caliber tea). I simply believe he deserves the opportunity to develop/grow (as a backup) and given the chance to start again someday when he's ready, whether that's with the Vikings or someone else. Unlike many people, I'm not ready to write the guy off given everything that's already been discussed here. But now on to more imortant things...I'm going fishing!

Aaron

[Swimbait2009]

I think it would be very difficult for him to succeed here in Minnesota. He has to know that a large contingent of Vikings fans are not on his side. I don't know if he has the cojones to deal with that. Not many people do. I really think he would do better in a new environment, with a clean slate.

[james_walleye]

Pump fakes and hesitations. Boy, we haven't seen any of that out of Favre, have we? That's part of what gets defenses to bite and keep plays alive longer. That's what allowed Favre to throw the TD pass to Lewis to win the SF game. Without them, he would have been a dead duck and sacked. If guys aren't open you aren't just going to stand back there like a statue. You either need to run or do something to maniuplate the defense such as a pump fake, which T-Jack has ZERO ability to do, I've heard.

They wouldn't have traded for Sage, they would have just grabbed a backup in free agency? Ummmmm, in case you haven't noticed, Sage IS backing up T-Jack. What they SHOULD have done in the off season is go out and get a guy that can be a top tier QB since Jackson isn't ready to take that load yet. Maybe a guy like Favre.

Aaron

Are you kidding me? Are you really comparing Favres pumpfakes with Jacksons hesitations??? You know exactly what im talking about with hesitations. Im not talking pumpfakes with Jackson, im talking about a guy that in NFL terms is "open" and Jackson hesitates and pumps and pulls it back because he isnt sure about it. Because he doesnt see it clearly!

They traded a 4th rounder away for Sage in an attempt to go in a different direction. If they had any faith in Jackson they don't trade a 4th rounder away, they go pick up a free agent QB to replace Gus. Remember that plan? Pick up Gus to backup Jackson? Yeah that plan went really well. The team won 10 games inspite of the QB position. Even with a mediocre starting caliber QB this team last year would have been in a great position to make a playoff run. Thats why they traded a 4th rounder away, an attempt to go in a different direction.

[james_walleye]

My nomination for funniest quote of the year on Fishing MN.

Originally Posted By: james_walleye

We arent bashing the guy.

Priceless!!!

Aaron

Now go ahead and put that quote in the context in which it was intended. You know full well that was in relation to the drive Jackson played against the Rams in which people were hyping a 118 QB rating in garbage time. You know full well the context was no one is bashing the guy, we just arent going to jump up and down and sell balloons over a drive in that situation.

[james_walleye]

So he never pump fakes to make the defense bite? Never? Right! The way people analyze his play on here (if it were accurate) it's amazing he's ever been allowed to throw a pass at any level.

Aaron

Here i'll spell it out to you, the guy has not shown the ability to to read a defense or manipulate defenders at an NFL level. With his physical abilities if he had he would be a decent starting NFL QB. You know darn well we are speaking in NFL terms, not college or high school for gods sake.

[LMITOUT]

Come on James, you saw the video.......AWH posted the proof that he can do all those things!

[Swimbait2009]

Originally Posted By: AWH

So he never pump fakes to make the defense bite? Never? Right! The way people analyze his play on here (if it were accurate) it's amazing he's ever been allowed to throw a pass at any level.

Aaron

Here i'll spell it out to you, the guy has not shown the ability to to read a defense or manipulate defenders at an NFL level. With his physical abilities if he had he would be a decent starting NFL QB. You know darn well we are speaking in NFL terms, not college or high school for gods sake.

LMITOUT:

He says "at an NFL level". That video was not a true reflection of playoff caliber NFL play. Come on man.

[LMITOUT]

[Swimbait2009]

LOL! Missed the sarcasm in your "voice"!

[AWH]

Sorry I haven't been here to feed you guys. Hopefully someone else will take over those duties. You seem hungry! This time of year, it's time to get on the water (or in the woods) and off the computer. Sprinkle in a little football, baseball playoffs, and the start of the hoops and puck seasons...no better time of the year!

Thanks for confirming that video was just an optical illusion, LMIT. I figured it must be. After all, he can't do any of those things. Not even once (never has, never will I think are the words commonly used), let alone consistently! I can't wait until Friday when he will be released or traded. Oh wait, how many Fridays are we waiting for again?

As far as the bashing comment, maybe you should look back and see the context that it really was instead of twisting it. I mentioned how people will rip him for anything, even the way he wears his hat. I explained how this really lends a lot of credibility (or lack thereof) to the side that bashes him. It was a very general comment of bashing, no specific incident, as pretty much ANY incident involving him will be bashed on here. You then responded on the next post saying that I am missing the point, "we aren't bashing the guy." Yes, you mentioned the St. Louis drive. And in the same breath, you say that it will be a lost season if he's ever allowed to start again. (Going off of memory, the wording may have been a little different.) The point being, you can't even NOT bash him without bashing him. Sadly, maybe you don't even realize it. And that would be my reason for funniest quote of the year on FM!

Aaron

[james_walleye]

Sorry, it absolutely was in the context of that St Louis drive and you know darn well thats where it originated. I'll spell it out for you again, people werent bashing him for the drive against St. Louis, some people just arent willing to give him all kinds of props for it.

[AWH]

Perhaps you were then responding to something out of context. And really, whether it's in context or not isn't even the point. All in one breath you were saying that you aren't bashing and then went on to bash him. Good stuff, I like it! No reason to get all worked up. I'm giving you kudos for quote of the year!

Aaron

[james_walleye]

Perhaps you were then responding to something out of context. And really, whether it's in context or not isn't even the point. All in one breath you were saying that you aren't bashing and then went on to bash him. Good stuff, I like it! No reason to get all worked up. I'm giving you kudos for quote of the year!

Aaron

Dude what are you talking about?? Yeah i bash him, i don't think hes very good. Again, people were not bashing him about the rams drive and that was what was being spoken to. How hard is that to understand?

[AWH]

Not hard at all. Again, maybe that's what YOU were talking about. But that's not what it was in response to. And again, this is completely irrelevant so debating that is pointless. (As is the entire T-Jack debate)

We arent bashing the guy. We just arent going to give him props for a comeback win against an 0-16 team. We arent going to give him props for beating an AZ team who had mailed in the regular season. We arent going to stroke him for beating the giants 2nd and 3rd stringers. We arent going to give him all kinds of praise for a drive against the rams. If other people want to "forget" the circumstances that go right along with any decent performance he has had, thats fine, go ahead. If this guy ever leads this team again into a season as the starter, it will be a lost season, period!

As I said, all in one breath. THAT was the point.

Aaron

[alwaysonthemove]

One thing I noticed in the video was that Travaris was always scrambling. Even the second he gets the ball from the snap he runs back 10-15 yards no wonder he only made 7 yard passes!

[james_walleye]

Not hard at all. Again, maybe that's what YOU were talking about. But that's not what it was in response to. And again, this is completely irrelevant so debating that is pointless. (As is the entire T-Jack debate)

Originally Posted By: james_walleye

We arent bashing the guy. We just arent going to give him props for a comeback win against an 0-16 team. We arent going to give him props for beating an AZ team who had mailed in the regular season. We arent going to stroke him for beating the giants 2nd and 3rd stringers. We arent going to give him all kinds of praise for a drive against the rams. If other people want to "forget" the circumstances that go right along with any decent performance he has had, thats fine, go ahead. If this guy ever leads this team again into a season as the starter, it will be a lost season, period!

As I said, all in one breath. THAT was the point.

Aaron

I'll spell it out further. We arent bashing him for the drive against the rams. We are bashing him for other things. 2 points, in one breathe. Not me talking out of both sides of my mouth like you are implying. If you take it out of context like you are trying to do, yeah it looks funny. Put it with the multiple posts before it, its really not hard to understand and its just another post...

[AWH]

Actually, I'm not trying to say you're talking out of both sides of your mouth at all on this point. I'm simply saying that you can't NOT bash the guy without bashing him, as I stated previously. You aren't alone here, so I apologize for just bringing your post into this. Most people in the camp that you're in can't talk about T-Jack without bashing him, no matter what the topic is. Look at the "released or traded" thread. No matter what the topic, people will find something to rip him on no matter how big or small it is. People could probably find issue with how the guy eats and sleeps

And I agree, put the above quote along side the posts before it (specifically the very post it was replying to) and it's not hard to understand. The three prior posts to yours, the topic had gone back to LMIT's favorite picture of T-Jack on the sidelines. You brought it back to the Rams drive when the conversation had gone away from it. It is what it is and it doesn't change the point I'm trying (unsuccessfully, obviously) to make.

Aaron

[DHanson]

My nomination for quote of the year is in my signature. Funny that it is also by James. Funny guy.

I don't have as strong of an opinion about T-Jack as some of you, but I will say he has shown some improvements. I think he just needs to learn how to relax out there. That is easier said than done in an NFL game and can take some time. I hate to say it, but he reminds me of Cullpepper a little bit except he's about 50 pounds lighter. I'd like to see T-Jack succeed whether that is in a vikings uniform or not (as long as it's not against the vikings).

How was the fishing Aaron?

[AWH]

Nice. I must have been on to something with my nomination for James!

Fishing was alright, nothing great. Still looking for the big girls. Got into some very nice pike. But the muskies weren't as cooperative. Gonna hit some new water tomorrow and see what happens. It should only get better from here on out. Should be a fun 40 days of the season left. Hopefully the ice holds off for most of it!

Aaron

[Jim Uran]

Tjunk is his name for a reason!! He has already shown his true colors. I hope we come up with a decent replacement when #4 is gone.

[fishin58]

SO how is Sage progressing this year? Have you been keeping up with his game film james?

[Born2Fish]

Honestly, I think neither are progressing. TJ has played all of one drive, and Sage...none. SO as far as progression goes both are lacking I am sure. But with a healthy #4 under center, it really is a moot point. Let them both get better once Favre hangs up the cleats and rides into the sunset. Until then, I hope they both work hard at practices and learn a thing or 50 from Favre.

[Jim Uran]

I think Sage is learning a lot from Brett and that he'll come out guns blazing come next fall. LOL!!!!!

[james_walleye]

SO how is Sage progressing this year? Have you been keeping up with his game film james?

At least it looks like Sage is trying to soak up info from Favre, unlike someone else.