Motivation

[bronzeback]

have I ever seen you out there Meat-Run? I shot you my e-mail in a different thread a few weeks back but never heard from you.

[Esox_Magnum]

I have no issues sharing pics, I'll post mine when I catch fish but the background may or may not be where the fish was caught.

Funny thing about a month ago we had a hot bite going, our boat landed 12 in 3+ days ( yes in Iowa) smallest was 39 biggest 50". Several other boats were fishing the area and only 2 others caught fish besides us. All were caught in a small 1 maybe 2 acre area over the 3+ days. 1 on Friday, 6 Saturday, 3 Sunday, 2 Monday. On Saturday 5 of the 6 were caught by 1 guy. Now most out were good fishermen but most unwilling to throw the baits we were thowing and working in the manner we were. We weren't shy about it and even told them what and how. They said no way can I throw and work those baits like you guys. We also missed and lost several more during that time most mid to upper 40" fish.

My point is sometimes just knowing where isn't enough knowing what to use and how to use it is the key. Granted 2 baits that produced for us were customs few have access to helped. Those baits will be a close guarded secret.

[urban cowboy]

I really dont care if someone knows where I caught a fish.. It really doesnt matter. There are a ton of fisherman and a ton of boats no matter where you go.

I just got back from a great trip with a few nice fish boated. They tried to guess where I caught them, so I just told them where.

There will be poeple on those spots anyway.

Now for a "secret spot" thats a little different. You may need to "WHITE OUT or SWIRL" the backround on those." Because there is a good chance that no one has ever fished that spot before.

[Muskiefool]

I have some friends that guide and I don't hate them but maybe its because we haven't been friends long enough LOL

[JRedig]

There are a ton of fisherman and a ton of boats no matter where you go.

lol at that one...

[sheephead2]

John you can tell me them fish are safe from getting hooked by me.... none last year and haven't even seen one this year....been out only 8 times this year

[john skarie]

There are two types of fisherman out there, report makers and report chasers.

The report makers are the ones that are on the "hot bite" first.

They tend to be on waters that the report chasers aren't on yet, because they are on the last hot bite.

It's the chasers that bring a ton of boats to a lake, hearing about the fish being caught and wanting to get in on that action. Understandable, we all want to catch fish.

If more people would be report makers, and get out to different lakes, explore and not follow the crowd, they would find that you can catch fish, and big fish on any water in MN. Not just the ones that had a hot bite last week or last month.

I share photos and info with people I know, but on the internet I've found that you'll bring a lot of people to the lake by putting up your pics. I don't like to share pics and not the lake, so I choose not to share pics over showing off but keeping secrets.

I try to fish the waters that the report chasers aren't on.

It just suits me better.

JS

[urban cowboy]

Here is my take.

I am not the best angler, not even close. But I was told something a while back by one of the best guides I ever hired that really sank in. He said something to me that changed the way I fish. Helped me stop worrying about other people on a spot or someone knowing where I caught a fish...

A good patern will out fish a good spot any day, week, or year.

The key to this statement is that one spot doesnt matter. It is a combination of spots and presentations over a specific period of time that will consistantly out fish the next camper.

This is why some people always catch fish. They dont have 5 great spots that they always go to. They have a 100 good spots and 10 different lakes that hold fish. They work to figure out the bite, they pattern the fish. If you think about it, that is why guides are so willing to give good info on spots. They understand that its not that one spot, its not that one fish.

[JRedig]

A good patern will out fish a good spot any day, week, or year.

The key to this statement is that one spot doesnt matter. It is a combination of spots and presentations over a specific period of time that will consistantly out fish the next camper.

This is why some people always catch fish. They dont have 5 great spots that they always go to. They have a 100 good spots and 10 different lakes that hold fish. They work to figure out the bite, they pattern the fish. If you think about it, that is why guides are so willing to give good info on spots. They understand that its not that one spot, its not that one fish.

Wait wait wait. According to AnglerX here:

http://www.fishingminnesota.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1935589/4

Muskie fishing is totally random and not pattern'able. (is that even a word?) Clearly your guide was wrong...

[Meat-Run]

Bronzeback...email sent.

thanks,

mr

[john skarie]

People who don't believe in patterns, and how successful you can be by tuning in to them have never really tuned into them.

That's why they don't think they are important.

Windows are short lived, and may or may not be at the same time from one day to the next.

Patterns allow you to be on fish, waiting for them to feed.

Knowing where fish are and why they are there is finding a pattern of the fishes location and behavior, which is the first step to catching them consistantly, not randomly.

JS

[urban cowboy]

Redig,

I went back and read your posts... Good stuff. Below I listed my favorite post in that exchange(NOT YOUR RESPONSE, THE OTHER GUY). This is a perfect example why paterning fish makes such a difference compared to having a few goods spots.

""""""""""""""""What might you mean by a pattern? One day they are deep, one day they are shallow....One day they like Bulldawgs, one day they want bucktails. A pattern on Muskies usually doesn't last much longer than a day or a few hours. If you've patterned these dumb fish then I guess you must be 10 steps ahead of the game?????"""""""""""""""""""

What he doesnt understand is that his post is what patern fishing is all about. Putting together a run that consists of all these aspects and letting the fish tell you what they are doing. More times then not, if you have two guys in a boat, you fish 10-15 different spots, different combinations of baits, different structure, and repeat it a few times making a few changes, you will see fish, you may boat a fish. You are giving your self better odds, more opportunitys to catch fish.

[JRedig]

I'm in total agreement urban cowboy and JS as well, I just find it somewhat hilarious the comments of past on this topic. I'm a pattern fisherman with any species I target, it just seems like such a fruitless effort otherwise.

These fish can be patterned and when you do, watch out. It can be the highest of high's and the lowest of lows when it runs out...i'm hoping it doesn't run out too soon, it's been good the last month or so, but i'm fully expecting it to change any outing now.

[urban cowboy]

You have to think outside the box, just like anything else.

[RK]

Hiya -

My $.02 - muskies are as patternable as bass. Sometimes more so. They're just tougher sometimes because the incidence is so low, and they're not ALL doing the same thing at the same time. I think in most cases there are multiple potential patterns available at once. Some might be better than others at any given time for a host of reasons, most of which we could probably never figure out.

I totally agree with good patterns beating good spots. There's a spot on a lake I fish fairly often that I have a real love/hate relationship with (Skarie probably knows what I'm talking about). I've caught lots of fish there, but it's just a spot. If there are fish there it's nothing you can repeat anywhere on that lake. Rick Clunn says "spots are lost in time" and I think that's a good description - they can be good at moments in time but whether you notice it or not, there's always a pattern there at work too - a set of circumstances that make the spot good at that moment. Better spots draw fish under a wider range of circumstances, because they're complex, they are at prominent places in a lake's topography, because they combine multiple edges...etc.

One thing I do think gets people screwed up though is the idea that muskies "want" bucktails one day and "want" something else the next. Muskies "want" a sucker, or bullhead or perch. But they'll respond to a bucktail or a topwater. The pattern isn't necessarily this lure on this kind of spot - it's this speed, this depth range, this combination of trigger and attraction from the lure - whatever it is.

That having been said - some days you just don't get on a pattern, or the patterns are breaking down because of weather, seasonal changes, pressure - whatever. So you end up spending the day doing what the bass guys call "junk fishing." Fish "good spots," throw the kitchen sink at them and hope for the best. Nothing wrong with that either.

[RK]

So about the original post....

I know a lot of guys who have been burned by sharing too much info. For a long time the muskie culture was pretty close mouthed about lakes and locations. The guy who discovered Lac Suel is one of my closest friends, and he managed to keep it to himself for several YEARS, until he made the mistake of bringing the wrong guy there - someone who couldn't resist the ego boost of bragging about big fish. The culture used to be that you went out and figured it out yourself. Now with the internet, stocked fisheries, etc., info is more readily available and word travels much much faster. I know I used to be a lot more open when it comes to sharing specifics, but after getting burned a few times myself (seeing info I'd shared privately online...for example) I became a lot more guarded.

Part of it - I really believe this, and I know Skarie does as well because we've talked about it out in the boat, and so do several other long time muskie anglers I know - is that stocked fisheries and the abundance/availability of big fish in recent years has really changed the culture. A lot of guys who are good fishermen and hardcore muskie anglers have never fished for native muskies - all their fishing is on stocked lakes, where in most cases population densities are higher, and frankly, the fish are a dumber, at least until they really get pressured. I realize that is a little bit controversial as a statement, but I FIRMLY believe stocked fish are dumber - whether they're stocked muskies, stocked walleyes, or stocked trout. And stocked, unpressured muskies can be REALLY stupid. All I can say is - guys that fish Plantaganet or Little Wolf or Vermilion now...you've never seen those lakes when they're unpressured. Even WITH fishing pressure, the abundance of fish on a stocked lake is awfully high compared to most natural lakes I think.

I think the abundance and size of fish that are available now gives guys who are newer to the sport a somewhat skewed view of reality. The number of 52-55 inch fish being caught now is unreal. 20 years back, people would be talking about a guy catching a 54 all season, and all the next winter. But I don't think a lot of guys who are newer to the sport realize that. They also, for SURE, don't realize how abundant fish are now with the stocked lakes we have. I hear guys who are good fishermen claiming they'd still be catching the same numbers 20 years ago as they are today if they'd have fished with the same lures and technology. They really seem to think that A.) technology has advanced that much and B.) They're really that good. No way. Not with dynamite. The fish weren't there... Some of these guys are also the same ones who've tried to fish native lakes and left with their tails between their legs.

I like helping people catch fish. I love teaching people what little I know about muskies. But I don't think I'm helping ANYONE by telling them lakes to go fish or by spilling the beans about a hot bite or a 'secret' lake. I know a lot of guys who would dearly love to take back what they've spilled about where they fish and what they catch there.

I don't think there's any single motivation for telling where you are catching fish. Genuine helpful nature, benign naivete, a little bit of a need to brag - who knows. But it's a dangerous road to go down sometimes, for lots of reasons.

Cheers,

Rob Kimm

[Scoot]

Excellent post, Rob- good info and spot on (with one minor exception IMHO).

I love teaching people what little I know about muskies.

[urban cowboy]

Last time I was at vermilion I caught a 51 by indian island on the left side of the inside weed edge off murphy point...

Boated a 49 off of boy camp reef on the front face that drops into 30 feet of water...

Now while others are fishing that I will go fish the other 5000 spots on the lake.

[bronzeback]

well hey at least now I know which end of the lake to fish on.

[scsavre]

urban cowboy,

i love it.

That is how i feel about some big lakes. When you know the lake very well. There is always a spot you can find where you can get a little water to yourself.

But i am starting to agree a little bit more with the secretive folks, when it comes to small lakes. I will give a lake name if i want to, i guess. I am just more worried about uneducated people catching fish and keeping or misshandling them. And since i know there are all types of people who do read these forums. I dont want to help those people out. I often will help people in person (face to face, maybe email) that seem to be educated on fish handling.

I also find myself being a little prejudice against summer trollers. My lake has a lot of walleye and x walleye guys who only troll for muskies. I know of alot of mounted and or killed muskies out of these guys. Nothing against all you trollers out there, just some of the guys on my lake.

So i guess be careful who you helpout, and what you post on here. I will still give people the benefit of the doubt, and post a lake or pic every now and then.

[urban cowboy]

Ya, big lake lots of spots, no big deal.

Small lakes are different. It is nomal to want to keep key spots a seceret, and normal to get erked when someone finds them out.

[PC's]

Keep your lips sealed period. Dont tell strangers, dont tell coworkers, dont tell freinds, dont even tell your family. Its sounds sad but people talk to people who talk to people who talk out of bordom and the next thing ya know your source is dryed up. Its common sense. If you wanna know what im catchin and where then hop in the boat, and if u talk thats the last time u ride

[DTro]

Keep your lips sealed period. Dont tell strangers, dont tell coworkers, dont tell freinds, dont even tell your family.

Well that sounds like fun

[PC's]

I never said it was fun. Fishing was fun when i was in grade school, now not so much. To be honest with ya had id known where outdoors sports were headed 60 years ago ida never started. Its just and evil addiction. Back in the day it wasent even a sport it was just a way of life. we used to anchor up 8,10, 12 boats to a spot and fish pike, bass, walleyes. No one tryed to impress anyone. no secretive nature. duck boats were mostly the standerd. People conversed about work, politics, whatever. If the guy in the next boat needed a cig, some bait, u offered him what he needed. Now days you cant even talk fishin at work without getting badgered to death. common sense and hospitality have gone by the wayside escp in the metro. People up north seem to be a little more down to earth and not so high strung. As for stocked muskies being dumb fish, idk they hardly eat muskie lures anymore, u gotta finnease the hell oughta them. Most muskie lakes are stocked nowdays anyway. Natural fisheries have big fish that may have never seen baits. Take LOTW for example. Lots of big dumb fish up there, cause they havent been as pressured. Not trying to start an argument with rob about whos muskies are dumber, just stating my case.

[DTro]

I never said it was fun. Fishing was fun when i was in grade school, now not so much.

That's too bad, probably time for a new hobby then.