First timer wants to take son deer hunting

[picksbigwagon]

I like that Archerysniper............I wished I had thought about those things when I took out my brother in law and his 15 year old son 2 years ago......another person had filled this kid's head with promises and "Guarantee's" and when push came to shove, I had to get them out in the woods hunting, not the promiser.....

[Bear55]

I normally wouldn't sit all day until closer to the rut. Since you and your boy are new to deer hunting I wouldn't even attempt an all day sit for a few years. Even for guys who have tons of patients and love deer hunting like nothing else it can be a long long day in the stand. Start out slow and sit for 2-4 hours in the mornings and evenings, or if you get bored have one guy sit and another guy go for a short walk to see if he can get anything moving. I wouldn't specifically try and make a deer drive but a short walk around the edges of your hunting area might kick some deer around. I don't know how many times I have had bird hunters push deer right to me. Once you get serious about deer hunting I would look into the all day hunts. Or if you have several stands setup you can hunt all day but move from stand to stand to break up the day a little.

[FishingWebGuy]

We spent the last 4 days up there and got some good scouting in. Problem is we found too many araes that look good for archery and a couple wide open, logged areas for firearms.

But now I have to wonder about proper hunter ettiqute (sp?) on public land. For archery it seems pretty straight forward. Give other hunters a couple hundred yards and probably be out of sight from each other. But for firearms, we would like to setup on an inside corner of about a 5 acre L-shaped logged area. What happens if someone else is in this logged area one morning? How much distance should we give other hunters for rifle?

It seems in the big forest there aren't nearly as many good spots for rifle unless you are willing to not see 2-300yds in each direction and settle for much shorter ranges. Not as many good spots to choose from and more hunter traffic during those weeks I imagine.

[nik]

Hunter ettiqute on public land during riffle season is interesting. It is good that you are aware that you might run into some people out there during gun season. I have a feeling that you would probably give them their space and try to avoid them. The question is, will they do the same for you? It seems like during gun season there is alot of people out in the woods that this is the only time they hit the woods all year. Some of these people wont realize that they are getting to close and other simply wont care. It's public land...right? I hunt public land myself and have encountered several problems with people over the years. My advise would to go as far away from any roads or hunting paths as possible. My walk to my deer stand is about 4 miles. It is not very fun considering I have to wear wadders to get to my spot, but I have not seen a single person out there in many years. I am not saying that you need to go as far as I do, but try to find spots that are areas that you know people wont want to travel too. That is probably the only way to avoid people that may influence your hunt in a negative way.

[Jameson]

...It seems in the big forest there aren't nearly as many good spots for rifle unless you are willing to not see 2-300yds in each direction and settle for much shorter ranges...

How many 300 yard shots have you practiced? First year hunting I would try to get shots in the 50-150 yard range.

Don't overlook all those limited range spots. Often times the deer are not going to head out into that big open clear cut during shooting hours. You may find that you will see more deer in areas with less shooting range.

[leech~~]

FWG, I put out my cam, a few weeks before bow hunting on Public land. I find a good spot that is a little thicker and then brush out a little hole from the cam to the trail. That way the cam is a little hinden from the trail if people are hiking down it. I once got a guy baiting deer with corn on the cam. He didn't know we were in there and when he found our ladder stands setup he must have been a little [PoorWordUsage], because he left his corn up on our stands. The good thing is, if the CO tried to get us for baiting we had the pic's to show who was!!

[Bear55]

Originally Posted By: FishingWebGuy

...It seems in the big forest there aren't nearly as many good spots for rifle unless you are willing to not see 2-300yds in each direction and settle for much shorter ranges...

How many 300 yard shots have you practiced? First year hunting I would try to get shots in the 50-150 yard range.

Don't overlook all those limited range spots. Often times the deer are not going to head out into that big open clear cut during shooting hours. You may find that you will see more deer in areas with less shooting range.

Jamison makes some very good points, you might catch some deer in the clear cuts on opening weekend but after the first day or two all the gunfire keeps the deer back in the woods. Get back into the thick stuff, if you can't see very far all the better, cut some shooting lanes. I beleive you can cut down trees up to 3 inches in diameter but you might want to double check the regs. I would hunt about 100 yard into the woods on that inside corner of the clear cut, trim some shooting lanes and be ready for action from all sides.

To avoid other hunters just keep you eyes open for old stands, shooting lanes, or trails they use to get to and from their stands. Like others have said if you can get away from the roads/trails you won't have to worry about too many other hunters. Usually a mile in and you will have the woods to yourself.

[FishingWebGuy]

Thanks everybody. That makes sense about the deer avoiding the open areas once the noise starts during rifle season. I think we'll go a little deeper in next time we're up there and see what we can find for intersecting trails and good ambush spots.

One thing we noticed is that it's not that easy to get a mile from any road or trail. When looking at a map a spot seems to be clear but when scouting we find there are undocumented trails, roads, etc all over -- most likely from logging activity in the past and all the horse, snowmobile, OHV, and ski trails. We even hiked back a 1/2 mile off the road once thinking we had a good area and we found a camper trailer setup in the woods.

We are thinking about putting up a canvas tent and stove setup right on the public land near the road where we will enter the woods. Our thinking is that it will be nice, close lodging and it might keep others from entering the woods from that same point. I'm sure there aren't many who stay in a tent for November deer but it sounds like a good idea to us or is that crazy thinking?

[Bear55]

FWG also remember this time of the year all the woods look thick, once the leaves are down things open up a little and the deer usually stick to the thicker stuff. You are going to find a maze of new and old trails and logging roads and sometimes you just can't get far enough back to get away from them. To find those hidden spots away from the trails you might have to put on some miles or get wet. Get some topo/aerial maps and try to find island of high land in a swamp, or cross a swamp to get on some high land on the other side. Or my favorite get a canoe and cross a river or lake to get to some remote land to the other side. It might take some time to find your spot (maybe years) but the only way to do it is get out there and hunt, then lots of trial and error.

As far as a tent goes I see guys that do it so its possible but probably not the most comfortable. Can't remember when but one opener a little while back was -20, tenting would have been miserable then, other years you can get highs in the 70's and you have to worry about your meat spoiling so be prepared for anything.

[FishingWebGuy]

Bear55 since you hunt up in that area, can you tell me if the heard pretty big? I know on each side of the areas we will be were intensive last year and our areas were managed so I'm guessing that means big heard. It seems we can't go up there without spotting deer. Probably saw at least 10 this past weekend and we certainly weren't trying that hard.

Good point on the 70 degrees on opener. I guess I always related deer hunting to cold weather. It does make me wonder what we will do during archery season if we happen to get one. Might have to break camp right away and get back into town for a cooler.

Any rules of thumb for how many hours the kill can be out when temps rise to 50, 60, 70?

[Bear55]

You must be in area 175, there is a good sized heard in that area but I still wouldn't call the hunting easy or the heard over populated. I usually hunt in 107 which is a management area, there are deer up there just about everywhere, but a lot of the time the larger numbers of deer seem to live in pockets where the best food and cover can be found, find those pockets and you should have success.

You really want to get the meat cool as fast as possible. I don't know of any time/temp ratio but the faster you can get your meat under 40 degrees the better. Keep an eye on the weather and always have a large cooler with you. If you know its going to be warm all week load that cooler up with blocks of ice. Otherwise you can always pick up extra ice at one of the local watering holes. I also skin my deer right away, to start its a heck of a lot easier to skin a warm deer than one that has been frozen all week, plus it helps cool the meat down. Finally if you shoot a buck, make sure to hang the balls in a tree. There is no scientific reason for this, just a long standing tradition that has been passed down from generation to generation.

[FishingWebGuy]

We plan on hunting 107 and 168. I don't have my map in front of me but both were management areas last year and I'm pretty sure the areas E and W were Intensive. From last years survey, 107 and 168 have 11-20 deer per mile and the WSI index seemed pretty low this winter. I'm hoping that's a good sign for us.

Is one big cooler enough? I have a 102qt but it just doesn't look big enough for a deer. I've never thought about this before but it must be a big issue during archery season.

I'm pretty excited about skinning and butchering the deer (God willing we get one). I still remember cleaning my first fish and pheasant and how rewarding it was.

Balls in the tree... got it.

[Bear55]

As long as you quarter them up and cut out the back straps and tender loins a 102qt cooler should be fine for 2 mid-sized deer plus ice. If you happened to get 2 large deer or a 3rd deer you might be in some trouble.

Hard to say what the deer hunting will be like this year, a lot of the state was down last year and I know several groups by us did very poor, but others did just fine so its hard to say. Keep an eye on the regs, I wouldn't be surprised to see some managed area go to lotto and some intensive harvest area moved to a management area or even a lotto area.

You also won't find too many bowhunters in the area this fall so you should have the woods to yourself. There will be plenty of bird hunters but don't get discouraged when you see them, they can really help move the deer around.

[motley man]

I use the same cooler and 2 full size cut deer fit tight in it. Only keep them in cooler if it's cold out. Other wise I drive home or to a locker to store them. I process all my own at home, but if I'm up north I find a local meat locker to keep them while hunting to make sure of no spoilage. Nothing worse than half spoiled meat, many people don't realize that the fresher the better. I do not age my meat by hanging, I cut and package as so as possible. Most meat lockers will keep your meat in a cooler during hunting for a small fee. Don't let deer hang if it's above 40 degrees and don't hang in the sun as it spoils the outside layer of meat. Many people don't like wild game because of this taste.

[FishingWebGuy]

Thanks Bear and MM. I guess I better have my notes on quartering, sharp knife and saw with me. Since I'll be in the woods a ways I might as well quarter it right after field dressing and pack it out instead of dragging, right?

Should I just bring some garbage bags into the field with me for packing the 1/4s, straps and loins out of the woods?

Bear I heard the same things last year. Some groups saw many deer and some saw none. Some people I talk to relate it directly to how long people stayed in the woods despite the cold, windy, snowy opener.

[Bear55]

FEG

Unfortunately you won't be able to quarter the deer right away, they must be registered first. You can however skin them right away but I wouldn't advise that until you you drag them out. Its also much easier to skin out a deer after its hanging.

The guys who spend the most time in the woods certainly do see the most deer, I saw my usual numbers last year while a lot of others in our group didn't see much. However there were guys I know of that spend all week up there and put in long hours who didn't have much luck. So like I said before, it hard to tell how the next season will turn out but if you put in your time and do some scouting you should be able to connect on a deer. Its also nice to have a little luck on your side, last opener we had wolves all around us so I only saw one flash of a deer the first 3 days of the season, thankfully things picked up after that.

[FishingWebGuy]

FEG

Unfortunately you won't be able to quarter the deer right away, they must be registered first. You can however skin them right away but I wouldn't advise that until you you drag them out. Its also much easier to skin out a deer after its hanging.

The guys who spend the most time in the woods certainly do see the most deer, I saw my usual numbers last year while a lot of others in our group didn't see much. However there were guys I know of that spend all week up there and put in long hours who didn't have much luck. So like I said before, it hard to tell how the next season will turn out but if you put in your time and do some scouting you should be able to connect on a deer. Its also nice to have a little luck on your side, last opener we had wolves all around us so I only saw one flash of a deer the first 3 days of the season, thankfully things picked up after that.

The regs from last year say, "Deer may be quartered before being registered, but the animals head must remain attached to one of the quarters."

Not sure how to keep the head attached to a quarter without keeping one side of the carcass intact?

And the regs also say that the carcass can't be disposed of on public land, so the benefit to quartering is quickly disappearing. I know somebody in this thread mentioned going 4 miles in for their spot. A 4 mile drag sounds like a challenge.

[jeffreyd]

You could hunt here is AZ where we dont have trees, or stands, and currently hunting over bait is legal. I think this will be the last year for bait tho. I would give my eyeteeth to hunt in MN one time. I think having the density of trees, the density of large deer, and the use of stands would be so great. Our deer at best here weigh high 90 lbs for whitetail and a tad larger for mule deer. But we can shoot rifles where you all have to use slugs correct?

[nik]

The 4 mile drag is a challenge. We did it the first year and it was one of the most miserable things I have ever done. Now we have a nice path that we have created. We use big game carts to roll the deer out of the woods. It works really well. The only dragging we have is about a half mile through a swamp. If you are going to be going a good distance, I would recomend getting a cart. The cart works well for hauling all your gear to your spot as well. Usually when we get deer that far back, we make two trips. Once with all of our gear and then we head back for another trip with the deer. If you take your time and take lots of water breaks, it is not too bad. The carts are a life saver. The only problem with carts is if there is snow on the ground. The snow clumps to the wheels and makes it uneven. If you are bow hunting early in the season, you shouldn't need to worry about this though.

[Bear55]

You are right about the quartering, I forgot about that. If you are skilled with a knife you should be able to skin the deer, quarter it and keep everything attached via the skin. It would probably be a big pain and take up a lot of time which is why most guys drag them out, register the deer and then start chopping them up.

We dump our carcasses on private land but that is certainly one of more ridiculous regs out there. You will have to bag your carcass and drop it in the garbage.

There is no sugar coating a 4 mile drag, just make sure you are in good health if you plan on going way back in the woods. You always hear about heart attacks during deer season, many times they happen during the drag. Another option is to get a game cart, its basically a large V shaped frame with two wheels. It might really help if you have a trail into your stand, if you had to drag over logs and trees you might be better off leaving the cart at home and doing it the old fashioned way.

I have a few locations I hunt that I will only shoot a nice buck because of the drag. Why shoot a doe 2-4 miles back when you can usually get one much closer to the road or trail.

[Bear55]

nik brings up another good point about gear. When rifle hunting I do a lot of all day sits, when the weather is cold I am dressed mega-warm. You don't want to drag a deer with all those clothes on. We usually head back to camp to put on our dragging clothes, nice light boots and some thinner pants/jacket. Also I like to tie the front legs up near the head (doe or buck) so they don't get caught on anything. With bucks they are easy enough to brag by the antlers, does we sometimes tie the rope to a sick so two guys can pull her a little easier.

[nik]

I agree 100% about being in shape. If you are out of shape, stay closer to your vehicle. Like Bear55 said, you should be able to find some does closer to the trails. Dragging deer is tough, but I am guessing dragging a human is much tougher. Physically and mentally. Stay safe out there.

[nik]

Bear55-

It sounds like we went to the same school. Your practices are very similar to mine. Great minds think alike!

[DonBo]

A good option for the carts, especially if there's snow is a cheap kids plastic sled. Even without snow it's much easier to pull than the deer by itself, and when you get to the truck, just put the whole works in there with the deer still inside. No blood in the truck!

[Bear55]

Bear55-

It sounds like we went to the same school. Your practices are very similar to mine. Great minds think alike!

Nothing like a big woods education with low deer numbers to teach a person how to hunt. Of course the population has been up lately so we have been on easy street. Closer to deer season I might start a Bigwood/Big Bucks thread for people to share all their tips. There has been some great info for beginners but as we know hunting mature bucks is a whole different ball game.