30-06 or 30-30?

[WalleyeDundee]

I'm new to deer hunting and want to know what kind of rifle to buy. I'll be hunting Mn mainly (probably most in Northern Mn), but other areas around Mn too.

Would a 30-06 be the best all purpose rifle for me? Would it have enough distance to hunt out west (Montana) if I ever wanted to?

[PerchJerker]

The .30-06 is one of the most popular calibers (if not the most popular caliber) because it's one of the most versatile calibers.

No matter where you go, it is an awesome caliber for whitetails, mulies, and black bear. It's bigger than you need but does just fine on antelope or caribou. It's a little on the small side, but with a quality bullet and careful shot selection it will do the job just fine on elk and moose.

The .30-.30 is/was a popular whitetail caliber, but it loses energy and velocity very quickly over 100 yards and therefore isn't a very good choice for longer shots (like out west or over big open fields). But if you're hunting in the timber in Minnesota it will be just fine.

Hope this helps and good luck.

BTW, just to make sure you know this, you can only use a rifle in the northern portion of Minnesota. In the southern zones the state does not allow rifles, so then you'd probably be using a shotgun with slugs.

[This message has been edited by PerchJerker (edited 08-11-2004).]

[nuts]

I'll second PerchJerker's motion of not getting a 30-30.

The 30-06 is a fine deer rifle (I personally shoot a .308), but if you're thinking of taking it out west you might think about getting something a little faster and flatter shooting. I'd suggest (in the following order) a 270, 25-06, or 7mm.

You can't go wrong with those calibers for deer up north or anything you find out west.

If the price in shells doesn't scare you (and you can take the abuse), you might want to look into a .270, 7mm, or .300 in the new short mag. The ballistics on those are just awesome.

[hanson]

.30-06 would be a mighty fine rifle. Very common, very popular, and you'll always be able to find .30-06 ammo wherever you go.

.270 would be another good choice. Little bit smaller gun than a .30-06 but it'll still put the hurt on a deer.

I personally shoot a .280 Remington. Its my great grandpa's gun and it has been very good to me. .280 is a tougher caliber bullet to find in the stores.

[Norsk Fisker]

There will be a MUCH greater selection of ammo, bullet wt, etc for the '06, If you are going to have one centerfire rifle, the '06 is a safe choice. It will also come in a better selection of actions. Don't overlook some of the other calibers mentioned, but if you have already decided on these two .30 cal rifles, the '06 is the best choice.

[Flashman]

It's pretty much been covered here, the '06 will give you the range you need to hunt out west...it will shoot far enough and flat enough to cover most peoples shootable range. I have one of each myself and use them both in northern MN. I like my 30-30 when I'm in the woods and I like the '06 when I'm sitting on the edge of a field where I have the chance at longer shots.

I had to chance to hunt in Montana last year (dec damage hunt) which I took my '06 out there and I shot my deer at 250 yards.

You can't go wrong for MN hunting either way, get the 30-30 and then you'll have an excuse for getting another gun if you go out west and you can never have too many guns or fishing rods.

[bigbucks]

Same boat as you are. I rifle hunt very little as my primary hunting grounds are shotgun zone so wanted a versatile rifle. I went with the Remington 7600? (whichever model's the semi-auto) 30-06 & have been happy with it.

I shot a caribou at about 250 yards with a borrowed .06 10 years ago after shooting that rifle like 4 times. I've shot a couple of deer with my rifle at 125 & 240 yards, both shots were right on. It's plenty of rifle for any MN whitetail hunting. I went elk hunting in CO with it too, but never got a shot at a legal bull, so can't give any first hand knowledge on how it would do there.

[Bogsucker]

Neither, buy a .308 in a bolt action with a low powered variable scope and there ain't a hoofed critter on the continent you can't kill from 10 to 300 yards. Less recoil than the '06 and as many bullet styles and weights as you could imagine.

[1966]

i'll take a 270 cal with 100 grain blist tips over any of the listed here just for the long shooting i can shoot about 400-450 yards with no problems..

[DuluthGuy]

Well, I have shot 20-30 deer in nothern MN with each rifle. I have never lost a deer with both rifles. Most of my shots where >50 yards and one about 150+ all one shot kills with a 30-30. If I was still hunting thru the woods an open site 30-30 lever action would be the ticket with 170 gr's. If I was hunting from a stand with possible <50 yard shots then a 30-06 with a 2-7 or 3-9 power scope w/180gr.

So, what do I hunt with????
I started with a Marlin 30-30(my uncles) and stopped about 20-30 whitetales then, I bought a Rem 760 30-06 with redfield widefield 1.5-5 vari scope. With this combo I have shot 20-30 deer also. As I am driving deer to stander's most of the time now, I want to switch to a pistol with a red dot scope for quickness and sneak. The scope is hard to keep clean and immediatly accessable during the drives where I usually have a spilt second to shoot. But, I still get one on the drive almost every year!

Quick action in the brush - lever action 30-30 or 308, 30-06 carbine, semiauto, open site.
Stand hunting without deer drives 30-06 scoped just for power and versatility.

B2

P.S. I hunt area 115

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Jump in! There is plenty of fish for everyone!

[This message has been edited by DuluthGuy (edited 08-17-2004).]

[buzzsaw]

1966, I am of the same opinion as you! I picked up a Browning A-Bolt 270 last year and shoot the WSM's (Winchester Short Mags) and it is the nicest gun I have ever shot!
I did have one question for another gentlemen on this site.... HANSON.... I'm not sure if I understood what you posted... You said that a "270 is a smaller gun than the 30-06 but it will still put a hurtin on a deer" Are you saying the 270 is NOT as powerful as the 30-06????? I'm very curious as to what your response will be.

[TimR]

Well I'm not Hanson, but the .270 isn't as powerful as a 30-06. Look at both shooting the same 150 gr round.

270 has a muzzle velocity of 2850 fps and at 100 yds is 2652 and at 300 yds is 2282.

30-06 has a muzzle velocity of 2910 fps and at 100 yds is 2656 and at 300 yds is 2298.

270 has a muzzle energy of 2705 ft/lbs, 2343 at 100 yards and 1734 at 300 yards.

30-06 has a muzzle energy of 2820 ft/lbs, 2421 at 100 yards, and 1758 at 300 yards.

270 has a drop of 7.5 inches at 300 yds (0 @ 200)

30-06 has a drop of 7.3 inches at 300 yds (0 @ 200)

Tim

[nuts]

Sorry TimR, but you're comparing apples to oranges. A .270 at 150 grains is really beefed up (bullet weight), but a 150 grain 30-06 is normal to a little light.

Using a 150 grain 30-06 to a 130 grain .270 would be closer given the size of the calibers. That would give you the following comparison:

Velocity (fps):
.270 - muzzel:3060, 100yds:2840, 300yds:2430
30-06 - muzzel:2910, 100yds:2656, 300yds:2282

Energy (foot pounds):
.270 - muzzel:2700, 100yds:2325, 300yds:1700
30-06 - muzzel:2820, 100yds:2421, 300yds:1758

Trajectory (0 @ 200)
.270 at 300yds: -6.4
30-06 at 300yds: -7.3

So, I don't know what you mean a 30-06 is 'more powerful' unless you were talking energy. The .270 will shoot faster and flatter if you don't use too heavy of a bullet.

Buzzsaw, here’s some info on the .270 WSM:

Velocity (fps):
130gr - muzzel:3300, 100yds:3070, 300yds:2630
140gr - muzzel:3200, 100yds:2950, 300yds:2480

Energy (foot pounds):
130gr - muzzel:3145, 100yds:2710, 300yds:2000
140gr - muzzel:3185, 100yds:2700, 300yds:1910

Trajectory (0 @ 200)
130gr - at 300yds: -5.4
140gr - at 300yds: -6.0

[buzzsaw]

Thanks Nuts!
I actually finished making my last post and called a local gunsmith who confirmed my beliefs. He basically stated that the WSM's are the best thing going, which made me feel good I guess.

[TimR]

Nuts,

I disagree. If one is to make a blanket statement about a caliber as a whole, you compare equal weight and shape pills.

Also, if one is discussing the "power" of a particular caliber, KE would be the obvious choice. I didn't choose the term "powerful", someone else did.

Now don't be getting your undies in a bundle. .270 is a great caliber, the favorite of a knowledgeble man (Jack O'Connor). When choosing the optimal bullet for the .270, it DOES shoot flatter than the 30-06 with its optimal bullet.

BUT, if a man would put that same 130 grain bullet into the 30-06, it would shoot flatter than the .270. And in the end, it doesn't matter if the bullet chosen is optimal to the caliber, it matters if the bullet chosen is optimal to the game being hunted.

The 30-06 is the more capable of the calibers. It is the great do-anything rifle. Buy a 30-06 and you need no other rifle for most big game hunting in North America. This is PRECISELY why I don't own a 30-06. What fun is having only one rifle?

Thanks for posting the info on the .270 WSM. I don't have that at my fingertips.

Regards,
Tim

[nuts]

Awe Tim, don’t worry about me getting my undies in a bunch. I’m not married to the .270. Like I stated earlier, I shoot a .308. However, I do disagree about comparing the same bullet weights in different calibers because they’re NOT the ‘same shape pills’. One is short and fat (150gr. 06) and the other long and skinny (150gr. .270).

It may be true that a 30-06 at 130gr will shoot faster and flatter than the 130gr. .270, but now you’ve introduced another problem – accuracy and bullet wobble. The 30-06 bullet starts becoming very short and it becomes harder for that big of a caliber to stabilize.

I think if you’re going to talk about this caliber vs. that caliber, you need to first find out what that caliber can ideally do and then make a choice based on what you’re going after. But really, in the end, shot placement is much more important than caliber anyway.

[TimR]

Nuts,

Good points. I was thinking of bullet type when I wrote shape, ie. Nosler Ballistic tip. But you have a very good point about the same style bullet having a different shape when at the same weight for a differing caliber.

I'd like a .308. Why? I don't know, they have a reputation for being an accurate caliber, and I don't have one.

Tim

[Pooh]

tim R
i dont understand why you think a 270 has less power than an '06 the shells are the same size, you can actually shoot a 270 shell through an '06 (all though not recomended) plus the 270 is faster. and you can buy a larger grain bullet if you want. ive seen 270 bullets up to 180 grain. along with the '06 at 180 grain bullet
ive heard of plenty of people shooting elk with 270s and smaller.
im not picking on the '06 its a good caliber

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this is just my 2 cents
Pooh

[buzzsaw]

This is getting to be a good thread! With my 270 WSM I use the Winchester Supreme 130 grain CXP2 Silver Tips, I know these are rated as strong enough to take down a white tail or a black bear, you can go up to CXP4 and take down a Cape Buffalo or Elephant! I'm not sure you can do this with a 30-06... (thats my way of asking) Like somebody else said, you can't go wrong with either gun.

[hanson]

Buzzsaw,

Smaller caliber is all I mean. That's all. Plenty of power! For me, .270 is a nice gun to shoot, its a little easier on my shoulder than say a 30-06. I know the new .270 WSMs are pretty impressive.

[buzzsaw]

Good post Tim, very detailed! I should have been more specific... Wouldn't a 270 using the WSM's be more powerful than a 30-06 shooting ??? I'm not sure what would be comparable for ballistics.

[buzzsaw]

Sorry, I actually know that answer! The new 270 WSM's are more powerful, shot flatter and have alot more velocity than the 30-06's. The regular 270's are well.... you already posted the info on that! The key part of this is the WSM (winchester short mag) part.... check into it. ( :

[nuts]

Use a .270 for elephant???

Wouldn't that be like throwing rocks at a truck?

[Bogsucker]

I've heard more elephants have been killed with a 6.5mm than any other cartridge. Why? High sectional density and moderately high velocity, in power its not far from a 270 win maybe even a little less.

'06, 30-30, .270, .308, 250-3000, .243 win, 7mm-08, 260 rem...It don't matter as long as shot placement is considered.

[buzzsaw]

How did I know that was coming? I just read it off of the Winchester box of shells... you can't make this stuff up.... I wouldn't put my reputation on the line, but I'd sure pass along what it says on a box of shells... do a google search on the Winchester CXP4's and see if anything comes up... or just check out a box at Gander Mtn.
P.S. I'm no Elephant hunter.