The numbers behind CPR and "Keeping a Trophy"

[MUSKYMAN1011]

Quote:

Everyone has the Right to Keep a Trophy.

if everyone did there would be no muskies, let alone trophies.

it's a good thing what MI and Our DNR Fisheries are doing. keep up the education Shawn. it can only help. that goes for any others out there too with something intelligent to say. i know i ain't afraid to throw my two cents in. ... or 2 million cents, whatever it takes. or is that ''sense''?

WHAT A BUNCH OF BULL !

[50inchpig]

Point taken - care to elaborate?

[Shawn Kellett]

Muskyman, how long have you been fishing muskies? Back when people were keeping them you could go days without getting a follow. Actually catching a fish over a week stay meant you were a hero often time.

Now that people are releasing them, I know of MANY people who have had multiple 50" fish days. That doesn't happen when people are exercising their "Right to keep a trophy".

[guideman]

As an example,

I started Muskies fishing back when most of you guys were babies or not even born yet.

Back in the day a 50 incher was as rare as a 15lb Walleye. I fished almost 30 years on great water before I caught my first 50.

Now with all the great work by the DNR and the advent of C&R. Anglers almost expect to catch a 50 on a number of Minnesota lakes.

I never thought I'd see a time when people were disapointed to catch a 45 inch Muskie. I see it all the time,

Clients catch a fish and the first thing they ask is "Is it a 50". If I say no, they get this look on their face like it was a waste of time catching that fish.

People wouldn't have those expectations back in the day. They were just happy to catch any Muskie, even a 30 incher made you happy.

Back then all the big fish got bonked on the head and that was that.

If you doubt the long term results of that practice, just ask the guys who fish lakes in Wisconsin about the "glory days" when Wisconsin was the Muskie capital of the world.

I repeat, It Was the Muskie capital of the world...

C&R works, dead Muskies don't follow, dead Muskies don't jump and dead Muskies don't get any bigger.

"Ace"

[cjac]

First off, great post and following discussion for the most part..... If you have a differing opinion, it's more than welcome when presented with discussion and substance, not a "slam and run" post......

Couple thoughts:

Mille Lacs is an exception to the rule in many ways; we are now seeing the lake's ecosystem take a balance with the muskie populations. Refer to the In-Fisherman article from Rob Kimm last year for more info about initial stockings and population and year classes. Some of these monster ML fish are pushing 20 years old, if that helps with perspective. Granted, baitfish and walleye pops. that are ever changing also have an impact, but the muskie pop is in flux right now. 2008 was a different year on ML... I personally got my butt kicked on ML this year.

Minnetonka is unique as well, so much water and structure and a somewhat unknown muskie population. We still don't know what 'tonka is capable of, although I've seen a couple fish out there that were knee-knockers.....

Quote:

I started Muskies fishing back when most of you guys were babies or not even born yet.

I fit that category to a "T"....

I've read and learned enough to know that Wisconsin used to be the "holy graile" of muskie fishing, but that has somewhat spun around, now Minn is the destination for the trophy fish in some circles. However, Wis now has the Green Bay fishery emerging as "world class" muskie water..... as a result of management and resource preservation and awareness and promotion of concepts like C&R its now considered as great water.

Management, promotion, conservation & education are the operative words here. That is what organizations like Muskies Inc. are based on and exist for. Kellett doesn't have to do what he does or post here, but it's about what's best for the fishery and for us as muskie anglers. He's not making money (or friends in some cases) off of what he does.

Days of multiple fish or follows are a result of many working together to make it fun for the rest of us. We wouldn't have the 110+ lakes we do, the 12 proposed muskie lakes, or the fish in 'tonka or White Bear for example, that we do without MI efforts and funding and their working with the DNR.

Regarding fish being caught multiple times; I know I've caught the same fish twice on a small metro lake in consecutive years(Eagle Lake in Maple Grove). I also know if I wanted to I could have a very adverse impact on that same lake by harvesting a big fish...if I did, my buddy(s) did, and Redig did, and (fill in the blank) did, we could collectively desimate the population of that lake. Now think about that same scenario on a lake like 'tonka or Mille with "X" numbers of muskie anglers over a season.....

One more point... I have to agree with "Ace"...what's so important about the 50 inch marker? I don't own a "bump board" and likely will not ever own one unless I fish more tourneys. How is a 45-ish inch fish not seen as a great catch? The day I frown on a fish not being "X" inches long I'll quit. Some of the coolest and most memorable fish I've caught are just flirting with the 40" marker at best.....does that make it less of a catch? I use a float-stick to get a "guesstimate"... close enough for me and less time out of the water for the fish, and I'm proud to say I've had a few 49+ inch fish, pinching a tail to get an extra 1/2 inch doesn't matter to me.....

[HugoBox]

One more point... I have to agree with "Ace"...what's so important about the 50 inch marker? I don't own a "bump board" and likely will not ever own one unless I fish more tourneys. How is a 45-ish inch fish not seen as a great catch? The day I frown on a fish not being "X" inches long I'll quit. Some of the coolest and most memorable fish I've caught are just flirting with the 40" marker at best.....does that make it less of a catch? I use a float-stick to get a "guesstimate"... close enough for me and less time out of the water for the fish, and I'm proud to say I've had a few 49+ inch fish, pinching a tail to get an extra 1/2 inch doesn't matter to me.....

Well said Chris. I'm still relatively new to the muskie game. A few years ago anything over 36" was a "trophy" in my mind - I'd be lying if I didn't admit I get more excited when I get a chance at a 4 footer, but I really hope I don't make a 50 my goal everytime out or I'll fail a lot more than I succeed.

Lastly, I'd hesitate to speak for Shawn but it sure seems that the point is that with lots of muskie anglers boating lots of fish, its more important than ever to make sure we effectviely C-P-R those fish and promote that practice to others. Just ask a duck guy who enjoys hunting canvasbacks or bluebills about the importance of resource management.

[Jay Hanson]

so why keep fishing for the same fish, i leave em alone if i nail one atleast for awhile???

[Jay Hanson]

so why keep fishing for the same fish, i leave em alone if i nail one atleast for awhile???

[Shawn Kellett]

LOL Chris on the making friends comment. I'm not here to make friends as anyone who knows me can attest to. I speak my mind WAAAAYYYY too often to be popular LOL! At least everyone knows everything I do is from the heart. My mother and father raised me to volunteer/give charity because I had the facilities to do so. Muskie fishing has given me so much that I feel compelled to give back. People like John and myself aren't looking for back slaps or praise. We just respect what others have done before us and feel it's our obligation to maintain or improve what we've inherited.

Here's a question for everyone in the audience: Why was the limit of 40" adopted by the MN DNR back in the mid 80's?

Answer: At that time a 40"er was considered a "trophy" by the majority of muskie anglers.

A lot of you are probably saying "no way, my average is higher then that". It's the truth, with all of the harvest of "trophies" in the past a 40" fish was fairly rare and special. The number of 50"ers caught in the state could be counted on your hands and feet. I know one year the largest fish in the MI Lunge Log was 47". How does that play on the mentality and debate of "keeping a trophy" now?

[TheHawgTrough]

so why keep fishing for the same fish, i leave em alone if i nail one atleast for awhile???

Usually if it is a good spot there will be multiple fish using the area. I don't think he was necessarily trying to keep catching the same fish. (Maybe he wanted to see if it would hit different baits?)

[Muskiefool]

Great insight Ace.

I was with a buddy 3 years ago when he hooked a 36+/- fish I almost screwed up and dumped the fish out of the net but I asked him if he wanted a pic being he's from Nebraska, he said I have to have one that's a real Leech Lake Muskie LOL.

I got a new outlook after that.

We do have it good, I know it can be better especially on the natural lakes.

[Muskiefool]

Shawn and I don't have any friends LOL...

[b1gf1sh1]

Quote:

How is a 45-ish inch fish not seen as a great catch? The day I frown

i will interject one possible theory here... a guy makes a date with a guide say maybe a month, month and a half ahead. of course it's a great conversation starter and discussion about the ''trip''. so he's heard from everybody and their sister, read in all the muskie literature he can get his hands and eyes on that 50''s is the, as stated, ''holy grail'' of the muskie world. that a true trophy aint anything uder that. maybe the guy caught a couple near home around 43-45, or maybe never. now he hears the guide say nope not a 50. gotta go back to the office and eat crow, listen to the ''Heckleing'' ... really if a guy hires a guide most times (not all) he's not very good at getting the fish he seeks or doesn't know the waters. personally i'd rather get my fingers smashed with a hammer than pay for a trained fish finder. but thats just me. i'd get no real satisfaction if it was found for me, and if i got nothing i'd be able to blame him and not know it's ''me'' that needs to improve. i have fished with guides but only as fishing buddy type stuff.

back in the day i was lucky to have my grampa's. ''mooskie'' hunters to the bone when the bug was in the air. so i learned young about ''Her Majesty''and her little quirks. back then the croix/ssippi was about the only place that really had any big girls in it (metro). everywhere, walleye were the rage and northerns were happily caught. muskie were just an after thought with most fishermen (to me everybody is a fisherman, sorry ladies if it offends) if not just a myth. tell someone you got one and it was like the end of the world. bait stores had ''maybe'' 3 or 4 muskie size baits and if you looked hard all week you maybe could find ten different style baits. times sure have changed, huh? now a 1/2 hour trip will box up 100 different baits easy. it's the amount of baits, and kinds, quality, now that seem to be the trophy more than the muskie itself for some fishermen. which is awsome really. with all the pressure these waters get, without catch and release the fishery would be like when i was 7.... '' a what?''

[propster]

Don't let Muskyman get under your skin. He makes all kinds of bu....it unsupported posts on other forums all the time.

[b1gf1sh1]

Quote:

Don't let Muskyman get under your skin

not possible. but thanks for your emotional support

anything i wrote was for anybody who ''cares''. or simply doesn't know how it ''used'' to be. for 90 percent who searched, muskie really was the fish of 10,000 casts in the ''old'' days. i believe we've won the cpr battle, i just don't think we've conquered.

[Muskiefool]

Hey Shawn, I remember a Muskie Biologist telling us that 25 years was not unrealistic as far as age and some have been found to live 30 years if my memory serves.

I remember after my wife and I released a good fish a few years back that I was prolly washing dishes for a living when that fish was naturally spawned over the Chara with few chances of C&R for the next 10 years, but I'm sure I wasn't her first, and Thanks to anyone before me that let her swim.

If a 50 is so valuable just imagine the inherent value of a 54-56.

Many years ago I said I'll mount my first over 50, then after many more years I realized how rare they were, if not for C&R I like many that fished in the years before myself may have never even seen one.

I absolutely could not see myself killing that fish when I touched her, I had devoted so much time and money that I could have said "I earned that fish" but I looked at her and I was only worried about keeping her alive.

That first time Muskie fishing 20+ years ago got my attention, that one fallow of a true leviathan 15 years ago changed the way I fish, that first 50+ opened my eyes and my heart and changed my life and my whole family's, any fish from now on is in the bonus round of my life.

BTW I finally boated that Leviathan, she was a miracle, and who am I to take that away from any of you.

[JRedig]

I believe the famed O'brien fish was aged at 36 by the cleithra bone. Age is relative to water conditions from what i've read, fish down south are lucky to make it 10-12 years.

[Nick Kuhn]

I believe the famed O'brien fish was aged at 36 by the cleithra bone. Age is relative to water conditions from what i've read, fish down south are lucky to make it 10-12 years.

I read somewhere that life-expectancy is directly related to heartbeats (ie your only good for so many ticks). In the winter the fishes tickers will be going slower, allowing them to live longer. Animals with very high heart rates live short lives (mice) whereas those with slow heart rates (tortoises) live a long time.

[b1gf1sh1]

my info is, and i've heard it more than once, 30+ years is not uncommon age for an esox if left alone. 20 years is average when you factor in us, fishermen. thats average. ten 30 year olds and ten 10 year olds is a 20 year old average. people live to 100 or die at 2 mos. but yes according to my info 30+ is normal.

[Shawn Kellett]

Yeah John, we may not have many friends...but we've made plenty of enemies