30-30 winchester

[huntfish365]

I've never rifle hunted deer before(always shotgun zone) and am planning on it this year. I have access to a 30-30 winchester model 94?????? lever action, no scope yet.

Is it a powerfull enough gun to drop a deer at 200-300yds.? What grain bullet should I use? I have been told since it is tube fed that I should use a round nosed bullet?

Or for a 150- pushing maybe 200 yds. would I be better off with the 12 gauge ithica, scoped with hornady sst's?

[Tom7227]

The 30-30 has killed more deer than any other gun in MN, but not many beyond 100 yards. Of course not many deer are shot beyond 75 yards in Minnesota anyway.

Round nose bullets are a must. I think someone has a ballistic tip for the 30-30 that's new this year and it might be a decent choice as it probably has better ballistics.

I have a 20 Ithaca with a slug barrel and a1-5 Burris. It shoots very well but i think 150 is pushing it for a standard slug.

[Froggy4371]

Look at it this way. A winchester 94 has shot the most deer in MN but that is becasue it is a short range brush gun. It will do the exact and I mean exact same thing as a 12 guage slug out of a slug barrel 140 yards tops. It is not a range gun.

Just my 2 cents.

Froggy

[Cooter]

I think your choice boils down to whether or not you put a scope on the 30-30. If you don't or can't, I'd take the shotgun - unless you're a heck of a lot better than me 100 yards with open sights is really pushing it.

For the 30-30, Hornady has some sweet soft tipped, pointed loads that bump up the normal velocities plus they are better ballistically because of the pointed tip. Cabelas even has a 3-9X-40 scope with a ballistic type plex to match those Hornady loads. Pretty sure you could get 200 yards with that setup. Hope this helps, later.

[huntfish365]

Yeah, I hear ya on 150 being about the max but I believe hornady claims the bullets only drop a few inches from 100yds. to 200? I don't remember exaclty but 200 is a bit far.

Yeah, lots of help. Thank you all very much. I also could use a 300 remington auto but that is also iron sights and not as crystal sharp as the 30-30. So any long distance shots with that would also be pushing the issue.

[BobT]

I don't think I'd even attempt a shot with either a 30-30 or 12ga. at over 100-125 yards. It would be a risky shot and in my opinion not real ethical.

I don't know where you are hunting that you expect to take shots this long but in most rifle zones there shouldn't be much reason to have to take shots of that distance. I'd wait for a higher percentage shot myself.

Bob

[huntfish365]

Wouldn't take a longer shot because not enough energy in the bullet? Or that's too far for an accurate shot?

The area I was planning to rifle hunt will be in NW MN. Usually slug hunt down towards the winona area though. Ever since switching to the newer sabot slugs, I have been very impressed with their rifle like accuracy.

From the hornady sst box. Bullet zeroed at 150 yds. will drop 6.7" at 200yds. No doubt starting to lose it's power very quickly.

[irvingdog]

You're asking waaaayy to much out of your guns.

Way. Way-way.

I don't care how many guys you'll find that say "I killed X number of deer at 225 yards with a 30-30 or a slug gun". They to are asking to much out of the guns. Energy or accuracy.

If you're going to take "pokes" at deer over these distances, go get a bolt action centerfire like a 308, 270 or some such thing. The guns you are asking about 100-200 yard guns at absolute best, and that is in the hands of someone who is very practiced and understands that particular firearm.

[huntfish365]

That's why I put the ? behind the 200-300yds. I was just asking what a 30-30 could do. I have only fired a few rifle rounds in my life and yeah a higher caliber rifle would obviously be better for longer shots.

I have no problem with my 12ga. hitting a paper plate everytime at 150yds. Crank the power up on the scope so the target looks to be right on top of you, relax and gently squeeze the trigger.

How am I asking too much out of my gun when you say they are 100-200yd. guns? That's exactly what I said. A 150yd. wide open shot isn't a "poke" it's more like a "gimme" Brush and terrain obstacles seem to always be the biggest issue.

[DRH1175]

I use one I have the marlin 30-30. It does awesome work on deer. But not the right gun for 200-300 yard shots. Unless you practice a lot at those ranges with like a .270 I would never recomend shooting at that range with any gun. Proven point in MN I would say 90% of deer are killed in the 70 yd or less range which the 30-30 excels at. Where are you hunting at that you think you will be shooting 300 yds? With all that said. Many people these days think the reliable 30-30 isn't an adequete gun. I used to be one of those. After hunting with my father in law making all 1 shot kills on numerouse deer. I bought one. I prefer it over my .270 in most situations. The blunt tipped bullets actually transfer more energy than the pointed ones. I myself have shot about 5 deer with mine. Not one has gone more than 30 to 50 yds after the shot. My father in law dropped in its tracks a 280lb 12 pointer at 70 yds.

[DRH1175]

with reading you last reply. a 30-30 will do anything a slug will do and even longer ranges out to 200 yds if the right shot is taken. And I would say it is still much flatter than any shotgun slug. Hope that helps?

[DRH1175]

Last point. I prefer the 170 grain bullets out of my marlin. I have shot Federal ammo mostly. But I now reload my own with hornady interlocks. Hornady also makes ammo the leveroution that claims to be a much flatter shooting bullet. Which may actually shoot descent out to 300 yds

[Mr Special]

I personally think no other round says Deer hunting like the 30-30. Not just in MN, but in all of North America I don’t’ believe any other round has taking more deer. With the older ammo the 150gr-170gr, I wouldn’t suggest a shot past 150yrds. But with today’s technology Hornady 160gr Flextip has transformed the 30-30 into a round that can take a deer at 300yrds, with a seasoned shooter and a good scope of course. I’m not a big fan of mounting a scope on the Win 94’s. With their top ejection you’ll have to have side mounted scope. I’ve seen a lot of people having them and like them, but to me it’s a little awkward. I would rather have a peep style sight setup, like a Lyman’s, or Ghost ring.

Hornady SST slugs has also extend the distance and accuracy of today’s slug guns. I current use the SST slugs and I am very please with their accuracy, but I’m a little disappointed at their expansion. It seems as though they are too fast and don’t expand very well at closer ranges. Even though I personally wouldn’t like to take a shot at 200yrds, I’d rather wait for a better shot. But it’s very nice to know that if I had too, I can make that shot with exceptional accuracy.

All in all, I would probably just stick with using your slug gun. No, upgrading needed to the sights and you’re already accustomed to the gun.

Good luck and hope this helped.

30-30 Win 160 gr FTX LEVERevolution 82730

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)

Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd

2400/2046 2150/1643 1916/1304 1699/1025

Trajectory (inches)

Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd

-1.7 3.0 0.2 -12.1

12 Gauge 300 gr. SST Slug 8623

Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)

Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd 150 yd 200 yd

2000/264 1816/2196 1641/1793 1482/1463 1341/1198

Trajectory (inches)

Muzzle 50 yd 100 yd 150 yd 200 yd

-1.5 2.4 2.7 0 -6.7

[huntfish365]

Great info. I will probably end up sticking with the slug gun. I just love the feel of that lever action, heck I have been handling it for about 20 years, since I was young and never fired a shot through it.

Thanks for all of the input and feel free to keep it coming.

[Jim Uran]

Love the Winchester 94, I own one and wouldn't dream of putting a scope on it. I use it in the brush during drives and it rises quicker to my shoulder than any gun I have ever shot and just feels right. My brothers own 30-30 Marlins w/scopes and they shoot just fine out to 150 yards. Classic deer hunting caliber.

[tunrevir]

The 30-30 is a great deer gun! I have a lever action 44 Marlin that i shot my first couple deer with. A word of caution, shoot the gun a bit and familiarize yourself with it before you go out. The danger with a lever action is that once you eject the shell. It is ready to shoo again and the hammer is fully cocked back so be careful once you eject the spent shell. Scary lesson learned years ago when I shot my first deer and then nearly shot my foot off in my excitement afterwards. Great gun but just have to be careful after the shot.

Tunrevir~

[BobT]

Almost any firearm you use is ready to shoot again immediately after working the action. Unless you take the time to reapply the safety a semi-auto, pump, or bolt are all ready to shoot with merely the movement of the trigger. A lever is no more dangerous in this respect than any other. In fact, with the semi-auto you don't even have to remember to work the action yourself because it's done almost before you hear the exchange from the shot.

Bob

[irvingdog]

All true, but the 30-30 has a reputation of injury. I presume it is due to the soft recoil and accuracy of the gun for close quarter shooting. It winds up in the hands of a lot of youths and green-horns, and gets used often on drives where party A steps into the shooting lane of party B. Also, I suspect the lever hangs on brush, and a hammer can intimidate the unaccustomed.

Still, the best safety is the operator....

[huntfish365]

Oh yes, I am very familiar with being extremely carefull with that gun. It's not at all like an automatic. A lever action has the possibility of firing without pulling the trigger, if the action is not fully cycled.

[bubs]

the problem with the lever is putting the first round in then un-cocking the hammer. my dad has let one off in his stand when loading. It gets tough when your cold and fingers are numb. I missed a chance at a drop tine buck because I let snow fill up in the hammer pin area and it froze so when I pulled the trigger it didn"t fire. from then on I covered that part in bad weather. I love the 30-30 I have a marlin. We have killed over 40 deer with the 30-30 over the past thirty years. but we never shot over 100 yds. now we both use differnt guns because we hunt some clear cut areas and have 200 yrd shots. I would use the gun that you shoot best with. they are pretty much a wash for distance but if you are walking or hunting on the ground I would go with no scope it is much faster getting on target.

[BobT]

Oh yes, I am very familiar with being extremely carefull with that gun. It's not at all like an automatic. A lever action has the possibility of firing without pulling the trigger, if the action is not fully cycled.

One of the advantages of using a Marlin. You can't partially cycle the lever to cause that problem. I know my 336C wouldn't allow me to return the lever if I only went 90%. Once I jacked it over a minimal amount, I had to go all the way.

Don't know about Winchester though.

Bob

[huntfish365]

Ok, I scoped the winchester 30-30 with a 4x7 bushnell, no shots will be taken over 200yd. with the LEVERevolution bullets. I used the side mount base and rings. In order for the shell to eject properly the scope had to be turned a 1/4 turn. Now my "original" elevation adjustment is on the side and the "original" windage is on the top.

I had the gun bore sighted at 100yd. and it is shooting to the right by about a foot and a half. What a headache, considering this is getting pushed to the last minute and I didn't have a big enough piece of paper or the time to figure out what adjustments needed to be made.

One gunsmith told me to stick with the "original" adjustments no matter if the scope was upside down, right side up or anywhere in between. I believe he is correct?

And another told me that now the "original" windage is now my elevation and vice versa?

How much adjustments can be made before a scope breaks or is compromised?

If anyone is willing to shed some light on the situation my wallet and I would be very appreciative.

[Tom7227]

Try starting at 25 yards and work your way out. The old gunsmith would seem to be wrong IMO. Also IMO 200 is further than reasonable.

[BobT]

If you have a shooting bench, here's a quick way to sight in your scope.

Take about three shots at the bull to establish the placement pattern. Now, place you rifle on the bench again and take aim at the bull like you did before.

Without moving the gun (this can be tricky unless you have a very stable rest) adjust your cross hairs until they align with the actual shot placement pattern.

The next three shots should be very close to on target if you held your gun stable while aligning the sights.

Bob

[huntfish365]

That sounds like a great idea to lessen the amount of shots taken, thanks for the recomendation. It's a good thing that this gun has low recoil because I don't have a clamped shooting bench and I'm thinking it will take a few shots to get it on.

I failed to mention that the gun was bore sighted at 100yds. and was a foot and a half right when I started at 50yds. I will just have to pick up a few boxes of the cheaper shells and get it close with them before zeoring with the LEVERevolution loads.

Unfortunatly I will have to be the guy at the range shooting at the refrigerator box:)

The worst part about twisting the scope is, if the reticle adjustments are different now, I have an adjustment knob that says L-R but really is the up and down movement. And of course, The windage adjustments now say UP-DOWN which may be L-R. Very confusing and takes some extra thinking. I will get it figured out soon though.

Thanks for all of the input.