Flatheads on the red?

[hanso612]

Who has tried to fish for them and what have been the results?

[Flaco651]

There is no Flats in the Red.

[Ralph Wiggum]

 Originally Posted By: Flaco651

There is no Flats in the Red.

What he said.

[Scott K]

RW there is a line you can cross with fish. And the picture of that sturgeon and you in your avatar is getting close to that line . Nice fish by the way!

[hanso612]

That's what I've been told but nature finds a way and wouldn't be surprised if a big one is pulled out of there someday.

The majority of people fish the red during the day, and it is a difficult run at night. I was hoping to hear from some all night die hards who specifically tried for them with flathead tactics in flathead hangouts before ruling it out completely.

[DTro]

There’s a chance you can get just about any fish at any time from any body of water.

It’s all about numbers. If there were any numbers of Flats there, they would be caught, even if by mistake. Yes there is probably a very small population and I guess a guy could try all he wants and maybe catch a few, but is that time well spent

I know for a fact that a few area lakes hold flats, but the effort to catch them (IMO) isn’t justified.

Pretty tough to pass up a world class channel fishery in the hopes of a rogue Flathead.

[Flaco651]

The North Dakota record Flathead is a measly 29lb. 6oz out of the Heart River.(a tributary of the Missouri) The population isn't that great either on the Missouri that far north due to dams.

With the forage base the Red has, if there are any Rouge Flats roaming it would likely surpass the ND record flathead.

Flats are also considered non-gamefish in ND.

Check it out...

[Larry FlatCaster]

Just like there are blues in the St. Croix and Mississippi.

Possible, but highly unlikely

[mplspug]

Or sharks in Minnehaha creek?

[Shack]

If I where to lay any money on the table, it would be for Tyler or Crazyice to get a blue, fishing for cannels. By what I have found (MN DNR does not even mention blues in the reg.'s) it probley would not happen.

[crazyice]

Even if that did happen, I don't know that I would know the difference. Maybe after looking at them closer in pictures I could tell.

[Blue Kayak]

 Originally Posted By: crazyice

Even if that did happen, I don't know that I would know the difference. Maybe after looking at them closer in pictures I could tell.

I agree. I'd see the forked tail and assume it was a channel. Would not even suspect it could be a blue.

[hanson]

Yeah... there are no flatheads in the Red.

What is interesting is that there are a few species of Stonecats and/or Madtoms (apologize for not knowing these fish better) that are in the Red and coincidentally look like very young flathead cats. They have the same rounded tail shape. I've caught plenty of them and they look like a very, very young flathead cats. But they aren't.

I've read on numerous forums about "supposed" catches of "small" flathead cats on the Red and I can guarantee you that they were Stonecats

IMO... the Red does a very good job of being the #1 Channel Catfishery in the world so why change that? Couple years ago, my uncle & I had 3 of our 4 rods all go down at once and we (through an act of God and a chinese fire drill in the boat) put (3) 18 pound channel cats in the boat at once. Unreal!

Here's 2 of the 3... You can't argue with that!

[Bassman55]

Yeah I have caught many of these stonecats or madtoms. I did think that they were small flatheads, just because of there flat head and I didn't know any different. But then I read an article and learned what they really were. Good thing I figured it out before I came on here braggin and all the baby flatheads I have caught on the Red.

[ec30_06]

Enough people fish the red for cats that someone would have gotten a flat by now if they were there. The red does have brown bullheads that get very large as far as bullheads go, and they can look a lot like a flathead too.

[mplspug]

 Originally Posted By: Bassman55

Yeah I have caught many of these stonecats or madtoms. I did think that they were small flatheads, just because of there flat head and I didn't know any different. But then I read an article and learned what they really were. Good thing I figured it out before I came on here braggin and all the baby flatheads I have caught on the Red.

I wish I could say the same when I caught some stonecats by the Coon Rapids [PoorWordUsage]. I thought I had verifiable proof a population existed about St Anthony Falls.

Ouch, they have some nasty stingers!

[Shack]

Flats can make it all the way up to Coon rapids dam, why they are not around that area in mubers, I do not know.

I was a firm believer in the past that flats did egsist above the Coon Rapids dam, up to St. Cloud. Since my last year or so on F.M., I have found cats can run in many different variations. In this area, they range from colors of yellow/pale, black as night, dark and light green, tan to full out brown, purple(ish), blue cat grey and other colors I have not even seen. They also can be deformed, as we all have seen in the past. Throw in (my newly findings as well) the possibility of Noturus flavus (Stonecat Madtom) and I can see why at night during the dark some think they have a small flat. Who knows, there are some die hards that will think that flats are up this way. I am not one of them any more and it is kind of sad . It was like the looking for big foot, you can try and look all you want, but you will never see it.

Another F.M. member just had a conversation last week with a local from ER that stated he got a 38lb flat last year.I just had called him and I sat on the other end of the cell phone and listened as he finished up the conversation in a parking lot some where’s. All I heard was the F.M. member saying “there are not flats up this way, go on F.M. and check it out”.

Some more reading for you guys!

Stone cat is found commonly in swift-flowing streams and is quite common and widely distributed in the interior streams. It is taken occasionally in some of the natural lakes and in the Mississippi River.

The stone cat, together with the other madtoms, represents the smallest fishes in the catfish family. Body color of this fish is yellowish-green to olive above and light below. The premaxillary band of teeth, a padlike band on the upper jaw, is U-shaped, and the chin barbels are yellow. There are usually 16 rays in the anal fin. The fish has been known to reach a length of 12 inches, although it rarely exceeds 6 to 8 inches. Most fishermen seem to distinguish this species from the other catfishes, but some confuse them with the young of other species.

The stone cat spawns in spring and, like all catfishes, builds a nest and guards the eggs and young. Madtoms exhibit an affinity for nocturnal behavior and probably spawn in areas of darkness, such as under rocks or in bank hides. The stone cat is the largest of the madtoms and lays between 500 and 1,000 eggs at a time. Stone cats prefer stream riffle habitats, but they are also found under rocks or weedy shorelines of lakes and ponds.

Most food-habit studies of the stone cat found the diet consisted mostly of the immature stages of various riffle-dwelling insects, supplemented with an occasional darter or other small fish. Like most catfishes they are omnivorous and extremely adaptable in seeking food items in ponds and lakes.

*Mayhew, J. (editor). 1987. Iowa Fish and Fishing. Iowa Department of Natural Resources, Des Moines, Iowa. 323 pp.

Stonecat Madtom (Noturus flavus)

The Stonecat received its name because of its tendency to hide beneath flat rocks in fast flowing riffles and runs. They are also the largest of the madtoms reaching lengths of ten to twelve inches.

The spines present on the pectoral fins can deliver a painful sting if this fish is handled carelessly. Like other members of the genus they possess a poison gland at the base of the pectoral fins which secretes a venomous toxin that forms part of the mucus coating on these spines.

Although the Stonecat is mainly a riffle species, it tends to be more successful in lower to moderate gradient streams where siltation is at a minimum.

Stonecats are also good indicators of smallmouth bass populations, because where one is abundant the other tends to also be abundant.

Stonecats are found virtually everywhere along the rocky shorelines of Lake Erie and also in the Muskingum and Scioto river systems and the Ohio River drainage.

[fiskyknut]

Yep lots of Stonecats in the Red, they make for good bait for BIG fishes sometimes. No MudCats though and I'd give 50 to 1 odds even a Flattie guy could try and catch one all season long nite and day and he will not catch one of those overgrown Bullheads!

fiskyknut