Lost Revenue

[IcePro]

Well the state found a way to make up for lost revenues by not requiring a shelter license.

Effective January 1, 2007, while riding on state trails, in state parks, in state recreation areas, and in state forests, a person 16 years of age or over shall carry in immediate possession and visibly display on person or horse tack, a valid horse trail pass, daily, $5, annual, $21.

Does the Pass go with the person or with the horse?

Each person needs to have their own signed pass and must "...carry (it) in their immediate possession and visibly display the pass on their person or horse tack..." The pass is valid only for the individual whose name and signature are on that pass.

[Jameson]

Well, looks like I won't be ice-fishing from my horse anymore!

[blackdog1101]

I'm actually OK with this, as I believe user fees are the way to go. But a fee for an ice shelter makes no real sense to me, as there are no costs to the State associated with shelters. Trails need to be maintained, so the users should pay a fee to use them. But I'm not aware of any costs the State bears due to our use of ice shelters.

[Pleasant]

MMMM Do you have to paint your DNR number on the horse also??

Lynn J.

[kwiggy]

User fees as a solution to funding scares me. I picture a day when the fees to our natural resources are so high that the normal family won't be able to afford using what should be free.

I know, I know... no more taxes....

[blackdog1101]

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User fees as a solution to funding scares me. I picture a day when the fees to our natural resources are so high that the normal family won't be able to afford using what should be free.

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I'm unclear as to why horse riding trails should be free, or why I should be required to pay for them when I have ridden a horse exactly once in 46 years. If other folks like horses and want to ride then, by all means they should have places to ride. But while I don't expect them to support my fisheries, neither do I expect to have to pay for their riding trails.

I agree though that our heritage of "common" sportsmen (rather than the "upper class" sportsmen in Europe) is being threatened on a number of fronts; perhaps moreso where hunting is concerned. It has become rather difficult to find a place to hunt unless you own land. Not impossible, but certainly more difficult than it was for our fathers.

[kwiggy]

I'm not ready to say user fees are wrong, I just think there is an opportunity for abuse. A small fee is probably a good way of learning how people are using the resources. Needing a fee to maintain a horse trail was what inspired me to reply to this post. I am not a horseback rider and never will be, but I wonder what costs are incurred maintaining horseback trials for horseback riding? I don't see the wear and tear from horses as I do from other sources. i don't even know if there are trails just for horses in this state, but I would venture to say that the state will collect more $$ than they spend on maintenance. If they do, is there a system to return some of the money to the horseback riders?

Like I said, I am scared of user fees limiting what we can do with what is already ours. I know taxes are bad and also have opportunities for abuse (probably much more so than fees). It's just frustrating thinking about all the ways the gov can get your money.

I don't have nay solutions... just complaints

[Nutty Fisherman]

I think people useing the trails should pay a user fee. I know some trails (not to pick on any one sport but I am going to use two for example) the bikers and walkers use trails that are paved and they don't pay a user fee. I know they don't hurt the trails but the way the weather is around hear the trails still have to be maintained.

The snowmobilers and the ATV'er pay a license fee plus the snowmobilers pay a trail user fee to help maintaine there trails so my thinking is why not who ever uses the trails help pay some kind of fee. I do think some fee's are to high, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

I hope I have not steped on anybodys toes, It's just the way I feel.

[Desperado]

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Well, looks like I won't be ice-fishing from my horse anymore!

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Are any lakes in the Metro Area safe for horse travel yet?

[MASON38]

No offense, but a lot of folks here seem ready to pay and pay. Did the state legislature get to vote on this new fee? Where does it stop, worse yet, where does it get to the point where sportsman say enough is enough, or will it be too late.

Here in Michigan the DNR has been crying most of the year that their budget was going to be millions in the hole. The governor and DNR wanted to more than double our hunting and fishing licenses. Folks got ticked off, let their congressmen know about it, and the rate hikes never happend. Low and behold this week it was announced that the DNR's budget is actually going to be 10 million dollars on the plus side. Fuzzy liberal math just scares the hell out of me.

[firemedic5586]

Quote:

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I think people useing the trails should pay a user fee. I know some trails (not to pick on any one sport but I am going to use two for example) the bikers and walkers use trails that are paved and they don't pay a user fee. I know they don't hurt the trails but the way the weather is around hear the trails still have to be maintained.

The snowmobilers and the ATV'er pay a license fee plus the snowmobilers pay a trail user fee to help maintaine there trails so my thinking is why not who ever uses the trails help pay some kind of fee. I do think some fee's are to high, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

I hope I have not steped on anybodys toes, It's just the way I feel.

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If you want to PLAY, PAY. PERIOD.

This past summer after my paying to play, along with my family. I was talking about this same subjet with my wife as the two of us and our two kids sat down to eat at a local eatery. Turns out this local eatery is along a bike trail. Well as if on cue pedal bikers show up. They took their turn in the wash room and fill up their water jugs. Not a single sole bought a single thing, they just hopped back onto the paved snowmobile trail and way they went. Now mind you our meal took maybe 30-40 minutes, and it was a non-stop stream of bikes coming and going.

As for horses, yes they can be ruff on their suroundings. I quite literly grew up on horses. Alot of horses in the same area means alot of horse apples. Hikers, bikers, roller bladers, mini-van moms in sandels with their kids in a stroller dont like that type of nature experience. Makes for a different spring time smell come summer thaw. Then you toss in the fact that there are limited amounts of places were you can stage a ride out of. Trucks with trailers that hold 2 - 8 horses plus some have living quarters. Horses tide to the side of a trailer, eating, drinking, pawing the ground as the wait, Oh yes more horse apples, mix in a bit of rain with this and you have an area that needs a good cleaning. As a kid my family was on the road an easy 3 days a week riding at different horse show during the summer. When not showing we were training them ect. My family rasied, trained, sold, bread horses, I do know a little about them. Now that I'm older I don't miss it a bit.

Everything time I play, pay a fee to do it. Hunt, fish, camp, boat, ATV. I don't mind paying my fair share, I just don't care to pay someone elses share also.

[chris63]

I don't understand the connection?IWe live by the luce line trail here in Watertown.I ride bike(in summer)and snowmobile(in winter)on the trail regularly.In the summer the Horse back riders have their own trail to ride on.Well alot of the time they are riding on the bike trail.Thats not a big deal I guess until the riders yell and say slow down your going to spook my horse.Not to mention the clumps they leave behind from their behind.I say pay your fee and stay on your "marked"trail.The DNR puts up "no horses on the bike surface sign"for a reason.vent off,c63

[BobT]

The problem with user fees or use tax is that our tax system is not based on the concept. The result is that the original intent of the tax is too easily forgotten over time. For example, gasoline taxes, social security, and state lotteries come to mind. They start out with good intentions but eventually someone gets elected that manages to persuade enough others in congress that we should use some of the money from those accounts to offset losses in other areas and it doesn't take long and the tax becomes lost in the maze.

What I believe would be most appropriate would be an across the board use tax (local, state, and federal sales tax) both at the state and federal level and drop all of the other taxes we have. To help ease the burden at the poverty level, some tax breaks could be introduced.

The problem there is that in our society we won't let it stay simple for very long and soon we would once again complicate things and return to a similar convoluted crappy system like we have today.

Bob

[looneyducer]

Your fishing license is essentially a use fee. A good one, too, in my opinion. I don't own a horse, but if I did I would happily pay $21 dollars for a place to ride it. It costs me five times that just to park at work which is, at least for me, another use fee.

I always find it odd when people start talking taxes -- new taxes and no new taxes and all that. I might be the only one, but I'm all for taxes, myself. Lots of them. I wouldn't even mind my own taxes going up a bit. What I do want in return is for them to be put to good use. That's the part that gets me. I pay, but the roads don't get fixed, etc. That really bothers me. I want to get something for what I pay for.

Of course, as far as new taxes go, I think we should start by taxing the wealthy back to reality, but that's a whole 'nother post.

[blackdog1101]

This is an interesting discussion folks, and I appreciate how everyone has kept it civil and non-political. On another board where I post, this would have become a flame war by now. For myself, I appreciate how everyone here expresses themselves without starting a fight. Good job!

[vikingmeatwad]

Political rant

User Fees or otherwise called a Pawlenty Tax Increase :-)

I'm glad they got rid of the portable license as it may allow more people to get out.

Plus ice houses don't leave dump on the trails like horses do, well some of these litterers may I guess.

[john.wells]

I also am glad that law was modified to essentially make portables from licensing. It was one of the most ridiculous things to charge a fee for. I can see the need with so-called "permanents" to be licensed, as they are apt to be burned down, abandoned, left on the landing, sunk, etc... and need to be accounted for. Portables, on the other hand, most often are brought out and back on every trip-kind of the equivalent of an inner tube or mini inflatable pontoon that people use in the open water where there has never been a fee for using while fishing from. Pretty much no potential for problems and certainly no added expense ecologically or financially to the State. I wholeheartedly agree with a fee for horse riding on public trails as they do require upkeep and also to build new trails.