Is the DNR taking the right approach to Deer Management in MN?

[PHESNTHNTR]

Boilerguy -- Do you think the deer population is good in our area ? I grew up hunting the Talcot Lake area, when we had to apply to get into that area during the Muzzleloader season, I remember driving by the refuge on the east side and the trees being lined up with deer. I haven't seen them up there like that for a few years now.

IMO the DNR completed limited the doe harvest this year in the SW part of the state, for example, Nobles County only got 100 doe permits for each of the 2 shotgun seasons. Jackson county which has been last year and previous years a management area, now was limited to 400 doe tags each shotgun weekend.

I agree with smnduck, he stated b/4 that what works in some parts of the state for deer management, won't work in others. You cannot do a earn a buck here. I like the move back a few weeks, that would put the ML season later, which doesn't bother me one bit.

[Hammer Handle]

I think the DNR is doing a great job.

If you "fined" for small bucks...they just won't be registered by a lot of people.

A trophy for me is a good eating deer. Yes, I would love to shot a large buck...but then what? The meat is not as near as tastey.

There are more deer and more big bucks now than in the past. Something is working.....

There are more bucks now and the ratio is way off. Probably due to applying for doe permits for many many years.

Get rid of party hunting? I sure hope not. So, if I had a deer and a wounded one cam by...can I shoot it? If 7 out of 9 hunters get a deer, how do you do a deer drive? Just have the two sit and let the deer run around them? Make drives illegal?

I like deer hunting the way it is.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Excellent question. Do I think the population is good??? Yes I do. Can it be better??? Yes it can. The real question is what do you consider good? Do you consider a lot of deer good or do you consider a lot fewer deer, but larger bucks good? Every persons version of QDM is different. To me the ability to shoot deer every year outweighs the chance every 4 years at a big buck. I'm different than many guys my age. I'm 40 and have shot my share of deer, including big bucks. I still would rather have a deer a year than a big boy every 4.

I feel the overall population of deer this year is down from the past couple of years, hence the reduction in doe tags. Hunter harvest the past few years has been high along with the coyote population. I've seen my share of fawn and yearling bones around yote dens.

I'll add, and not trying to sound rude, but this past weekend I missed the buck of a lifetime and I got the one in my avitar. Our group of 7 tagged 6 deer. We worked hard, very hard, for these deer, not just drive around in pick ups. If you've spent time slug hunting around here you know what I'm talking about. We saw our share of deer, but not from the road.

[realtower]

Im not sure how anyone can say the deer population is down. There is more deer now then ever before. If the herd was in check we would not see the diseases we are today and the insurance rates would reflect it also. I think a deer a year in great just shoot a doe. I think its an excuse when people say that the little bucks are all they see when I could almost shoot a doe every day out on state land arround here. As for hammer handle's comment about party hunting I think that we should get rid of it. You said "if a deer walks by thats wounded and you dont have a tag" then you dont shoot. If you are out grouse hunting and you see a wounded deer do you shoot it then? Also when you say "should you do deer drives with two people" in my opinion don't do deer drives just learn to hunt. Like I posted before it take a great hunter to go one on one with a deer in its home it takes a good shot to shoot one.

[mtheis]

I personally feel that the Metro Deer Zone is too liberal. We can presently shoot as many deer as we want (only one buck), and we can do this for three weeks in a row. I hunt up in Grant Township and have noticed ever since the season got extended our party is seeing less and less deer each season. Of course I understand this is exactly what the DNR wants, however I think it should be tempered a little by decreasing the harvest to two deer a hunter. I am probably in the minority but for this reason I am against the donate a deer program as well. We are shooting up our resources when the food shelves could be filled with other items that will help the poor.

[mnfishman]

I believe the only way you are going to get more mature bucks in this state is to stop selling buck tags over the counter. Those should be lottery only. I can't believe any person in the country can come to MN and buy a buck tag and go shoot anything with horns.

Secondly I read on another forum that there should be three different licenses.

1. $30 All Season License good for one deer lottery buck or doe.

2. $60 All Season License good for one buck and one doe

3. $90 All Season License good for one buck and two does.

Of course if you want to shoot a buck you would need to apply for a permit in your zone.

The reason why this makes sense to me is I would love the opportunity to hunt all the seasons but I don't need 3 deer. If I drew a buck tag and a big 10 walked by me Oct 1st I would shoot and be done for the season.

[DeanoB]

Quote:

---

I am probably in the minority but for this reason I am against the donate a deer program as well. We are shooting up our resources when the food shelves could be filled with other items that will help the poor.

---

I certainly hope you are in the minority! Do you have any idea what it takes to operate a food shelf? Apparently not, too many people already share your belief, and there isn't much in these food shelves. How do I know? My company works very closely with Channel One here in Rochester, and my mom also works there part time, she distruibutes food to other food shelves in Minnesota, and secures donations from large companies. If I stop by to take ma out for lunch, there isn't a lot of food as far as protein such as meat goes. The donation program has been viewed as a blessing by the food shelves, as do most of the people who haven't had a roast, or nice cut of meat in a long time. Would you rather just have the meat get freezer burned, and throw it away in 2-3 years? This is why the program was founded, for hunters to be able to shoot the 5 deer they have licenses for in certain zones without wasting meat, and for the needy to be able to eat.

[Hammer Handle]

Deer drives are not hunting? Nothing more exciting than a successfull deer drive.

Just sitting in a "home" and shooting a deer at 200 yards away? I could say the same thing and say that is not hunting.

Both are part of deer hunting and it should stay that way.

[96trigger]

Well said Deano, the food shelf program is going to be utilized in the intensive harvest and management areas.

ONe person comes on here talking about the Doe to buck ratio being out of whack, the next says that there aren't enough deer. Now you guys might see what the DNR is up against. There are some areas that are heavily populated, and there are some areas where the population is sparce. Someone also mentioned that in their area, they wouldn't mind it if the DNR closed hunting for three years. If you own your own land, then take your own advice and don't hunt it for three years. The deer will see it as a refuge, and will come back. Not everybody should have to give up their right to hunt because your area in an area has a smaller deer population or because you want to shoot a trophy buck.

My area this year has dropped from intensive to management, am I mad about it, absolutely not. If the DNR thinks that the deer numbers are down, or that we had an exceptional harvest, then so be it. I thought that they were nuts at first but am now hearing that the amoung of deer registered is down. Maybe the DNR does know a little bit about what they are doing.

Too many people hunt their 100 acres and don't see deer and take this as a sign that the deer population is bad. What are the other factors playing into that equation? Too many standing corn fields? No food sources near by? Change in food source? Weather patterns? Are you doing something different? Is there 100 acres of land in the vicinity that nobody hunts? We need to look at the big picture, as I'm sure the DNR does. They are not managing for your 100 acres, they are trying to manage for a whole state with 1,000s of acres. Your supposed to manage your 100.

As for state land, they are doing their best. The last few years I have seen zone 344, (Whitewater state park) change in zoning because the deer pop has been closely monitored. Am I ticked that now I can only shoot one deer with a bow there? Not in the slightest. It would be nice if I could take a buck and a doe, but I can't, so I just wait for the chance at a nice buck, if it happens, great, if not, so be it. I know that the deer population in the area is very high, I also know that the hunting pressure from 3A and 3B is also very high and the DNR doesn't want to deplete the resources. So, Bravo to them, I stand by what they are doing. Some of us are seeing plenty of deer. Every year it seems that we see more and more big bucks on this forum. If the DNR changed the seasons or regs, we wouldn't see a change over night. They are doing the right thing, some of us are seeing a change for the better, the pics don't lie.

[chucker34]

I haven't read all the posts but am a big believer in what the DNR is doing, managing for numbers and opprotunities versus big bucks. I am a meat hunter. In the three years I've hunted now, I've taken four does with my bow and all experienced were awesome. That may not make me the great mighty hunter to get so excited over a doe in some eyes'. But I want an opportunity at a deer, not necessarily a big buck.

And personally, I think we shuold be more concerned over numbers right now when you look at how much of the state is lottery. I was all teed off at the beginning of the year because I couldn't take 2 or 3 deer with my all season license as in year's past. The numbers seemed great the past few years. I was seeing a lot of deer. But all of a sudden that changed this year. On our property, I went from seeing a couple of dozen different deer to half a dozen regulars and some transients during deer season. I was getting the same deer over and over on trail cams. So I admit I was wrong and the DNR was looking ahead.

Still plenty of guys are out there buying tags for their wives or kids to hunt. And that concerns me. Because I'd like to be able to take a deer next year, any adult deer. And that may not happen if the number of people circumventing the system keep depleting a stressed out population in many areas. I truly believe - as lcornice mentioned - we may be going to buck only next year if that happens. And then not only does it suck for me but for the big trophy hunters out there who are going to see every and any buck blasted out of the woods.

[fishin58]

I hunt Grant/Traverse counties, I would say the #'s are down, I do agree with the lottery system right now, I can only see that as a good thing to bring back the herd. However I did like mnfisherman' plan for the all season lic, that would not kill the budget like it does now.

[realtower]

Hammer, "Like lambs to the slaughter" yep thats hunting!

[smnduck]

Kind of like 10' wide shooting lanes cut into the forest and an elevated box stand with a high power rifle. A deer drive is by no means a sure thing.

[realtower]

I agree with the shooting house and lanes but aleast there the deer have a chance. Also if you haven't noticed your on a mostly all archery forum. That means most guys do it the hard way on this site stick and string.

[Hammer Handle]

The people who claim driving deer is not hunting and easy have A) never done it don't have the land (private) to do it

Deer have a much better chance of surviving a drive then a tower with a rifle in it. Why drive then? For the fun and excitement and to get the deer moving if you have limited time to hunt.

And yes, I have made drives for bow hunters too.

Shooting deer on a drive is like shooting a duck in flight. Sitting in the stand is like shooting a duck sitting in the water amongst your decoys. Both are ok, but which is more fun and more of a challenge? And, both are hunting.

[96trigger]

Hammer, we drive deer, its not easy for the drivers, or the sitters to hit them. I'm not ashamed to admit to it, we've been doing it for years, safely and ethically. Most of our shots are within 50 yards and the deer usually drops instantly. We have also let deer go through on drives, and only taken a few mature deer out. For the people saying there are too many does, this is a way to help manage the population, probably why the DNR hasn't and won't eliminate deer drives.

[Eric Wettschreck]

85% of my gun hunting is during a drive. There isn't a darn thing wrong with sitting in a tree and waiting nor is there a darn thing wrong with driving them.

I've shot deer both ways and I've passed on deer both ways.

[PHESNTHNTR]

Quote:

---

not just drive around in pick ups. If you've spent time slug hunting around here you know what I'm talking about.

---

Hence the reason my dad chose to muzzle loader hunt, quite a few years ago. Thats they only way I've ever shot deer. We still shoot traditional style guns with round balls.

Anyways on the subject. When we hunt we post in the am for a while and if the deer aren't moving, we need to go find them, like many have said, nothing wrong with sitting or driving. I know if we wouldn't do drives we would not have shot deer some years.

It does scare me to see 10 + people lined up walking across a area trying to get deer up. IMO this is how people get shot.

[Eric Wettschreck]

That's the reason I introduced my daughter to deer hunting via muzzloader. She's all growed up now and gone so I'm back to shooting slugs.

[DeanoB]

interesting topic about the drives. Coming from MT never heard of one till moving here. If I hunt in 348 with the family we sit morning then meet up to see what everyone saw/didn't see, if no one saw any deer moving, we usually go right to the driving. Driving can be a little scary, had a cousin plant a slug in a tree 5 feet from where i was standing one year, always thought i would take one walking. if i hunt my honey hole near home i sit in stand or blind or walk really slow through the woods, but then again honey hole is all by self. to do an effective drive, you need to have a good number of safe good shot hunters. One reason my cousin doesn't hunt with us any more, after almost killing me, he whizzed a hunk of lead 1 corn row away from another cousin the next day, so he has been banned family or not.

[realtower]

Hammer, your theory doesnt work with me. I started out hunting on farms with slug guns doing drives and was almost shot. I learned real quick that to me it was just not sporting. I get the fun of getting together and hunting, I just am no fan of herding the deer to other hunters. I also feel its not safe. Most of the hunters that are shot every year are from deer drives so I just choose not to. Also I own two farms that are bolth managed and I also hunt state land alot and sorry still wouldn't think of it. Also your duck Analogy is ridiculous think of what you said. That a deer drive is harder to get a deer then going one on one with a whitetail on his terms not yours

[brassman]

what do you guys think about a late (middle of December) rifle antlerless hunt? if no one wants one before rifle season why not have one after muzzleloader? This would be limited to areas where it is already intesive harvest and where you haven't filled all of your bonus tags. Just a thought.

[Jameson]

I like the idea of a late season doe hunt, don't like the current early season.

The $30,$60,$90 license options discussed earlier in the thread seems like a good idea.

Really wish BUCK TAGS WOULD BE LOTTERY IN LOTTERY AREAS JUST LIKE DOE TAGS.

I would like to see the Muzzleloader season license included when I buy a regular zone license.

Please no forced antler restrictions. I do it voluntarily, but am fine if others choose not to.

I would think pushing back firearms season back a week would be better. It's Oct. 11th today and I was hunting in a T-shirt. It's supposed to be cold for firearms deer hunting! It would also allow those dominant bucks another week to spread their genes.

Is the DNR taking the right approach to Deer Management in MN? I hope so.

[RiverRunner]

I think for the most part the DNR does a good job. We have a lot of deer in certain areas. Not that there hasn't been some mistakes with giving out too many tags like Western and SW MN. I think QDM is more of a choice than anything, with 500,000 deer hunters a lot of smaller bucks will get shot.

I'm not so sure about point restrictions being a good idea, It definatly would not be a popular idea. Many people only have one or two weekends to hunt deer and they just want to take the first deer that walks by. Which is fine, just getting a deer is trophy to some. Another thing is how would you enfore Point restrictions and what would be the penalty? Earn a buck in areas with a high concentration of deer has the potential to work very well. Like SE MN and Central MN. The number one thing the DNR could do, would be to move the Firearms season two weeks back.

The record book doesn't really lie here is the top 10 states for B & C entries in the last 10 years. The top three states gun seasons take place out of the peak of the rut.

IL (509), IA (507), WI (395), MN (293), MO (244), KY (242), KS (235), OH (199), TX (159), and IN (138

Although some of these states may have better deer habitat and less dense woods than MN The debate could go on for days about this subject, but moving the gun season back two weeks may be the best choice. What do you guys think.

[DLoutdoors]

I'll be honest and say that I didnt read all of the posts, however I think that "earn a buck" is a great idea but too many people wouldn't follow the rule. Getting rid of party hunting would help, but again many won't follow.

I like the fact that in ND you have to apply for buck tags! This to me makes a lot of sense. IF we only got a buck tag every few years, many more bucks would get a chance to reach 3.5 and 4.5 years old.

This past week, I passed on 6 bucks. 3 of which I kinda kick myself for, there were 2 130 class 8 pts. and a 130 class 10 pt. I passed all 3 of these in hopes that next year (they all appeared to be young 2.5 year old) they will be pigs. I pass, and the neighbors shoot.....I think that applying for buck tags would help...give a set number to each area and do a lottery drawing....you'd see results in 2 years! And on the party hunting note, only others with a buck tag can legally shoot "your buck". Same with does.