The doom of the almighty black cloud!!! (ha ha ha)

[HugoBox]

I'd be interested to know what a pattern would look like at 100 yards. I'm guessing you need that magic BB...

I'm not an expert on yardages - I actually use a range finder from time to time so that I know how far the deocys are from the boat. Often times I find that I set the decoys way too close. I also realized that shots that used to not take because they looked too far were actually 30 - 35 yards.

[honker23]

Just when you thought you've heard it all.

I would have to agree with commander on this stuff. Unless you are shooting a 22, or a slug, you are NOT KILLING geese, ducks, or blackbirds at a 100 yds. I would not be afraid to stand at the other end of a football field with may back to you and let you take a shot, it won't do too much.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but a killing goose at 100 yds is not happening.

Stuff like this has the next guy thinking....maybe I could...so he tries it and so on.

[commander019]

Quote:

---

Stuff like this has the next guy thinking....maybe I could...so he tries it and so on.

---

Probably one of the best comments on this thread so far. It's sad but true.

[mwal]

For French_lake_Kid

A common misconception is that a 10 gauge is more powerful than a 12 or even a .410. That is simply not true. If you are shooting a number 2 steel pellet at 1300 ft/ps out of the 10ga and your are shooting a number 2 steel pellet out of say a 20 ga using Kent faststeel at 1500ft/ps. The 20 gauge wins hands down in down range energy. The only reason the 10 has an advantage is that they have more payload and a larger diameter barrel therefore they pattern steel shot better causing the bird to be hit by more pellets. If pellet size is the same. The one shot at the fastest speed is most powerful. Most 10 ga loads are slower than the loads available in 12 or 20 ga. The amount of shot and a superior pattern cause people to believe they are more powerful

Mwal

[169Sportsman]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I’ve shot cripples out of the air up to 90 yds (range finder) and you can see puffs of feathers fly out of them and kill them stone cold. Especially on a snow goose hunt when the closest shot to a bird you get might be 50-60 yds.

---

You have to be joking!!

---

Just out of curiousity have "you" ever used a range finder to determine ranges. A goose decoy on the ground looks a heck of a lot different than a goose flying straight above your head. I have personally watched geese dropped from 70 to 100 yards up. I hit them with a range finder flying over me and watched people shoot at them after they flew by. And this was with steel. Not too say that you can consistently drop them, and not that I recommend it but it can most certainly be done. With the old federal 3.5" BBB I could consistently drop birds to 70+ yards. And before you all jump on your high horse I was young and did a lot of pass shooting.

[kc0myy]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I think what we are trying to get at is that. Yes with these new shell on the market we can take long shots.

---

Wrong. That is the misconception of the Black Cloud shot. Its not designed for more range or longer shots. Its designed to create a larger penetration hole within range. It actually looses velocity faster than the round pellets incorperated with it. It's all hype. Info from a worker at Federal: the BC pellets are simply the same pellets that are in the regular shot shells, they have just not been buffed down and round. They have eliminated a step in the manufacturing process and are charging you more money for a lesser grade product. It's just a marketing ploy by Federal. Of course a non-rounded pellet is going to create a larger hole when it penetrates the bird at close range but any shell will kill at close range.

---

Did you not see that I said "to be on the SAFE side we should NOT TAKE THESE SHOTS." Also if this black cloud is nothing but I big hype. Then why did just one BC pellet go right though the breast and into the heart and lung when the rest of the steel pellets did not? I have a pic that I will be up loading of the goose I shot. Thats over 50 yards. I know for sure it was over 50 yards.

[RBuker]

Quote:

---

Wrong. That is the misconception of the Black Cloud shot. Its not designed for more range or longer shots. Its designed to create a larger penetration hole within range. It actually looses velocity faster than the round pellets incorperated with it. It's all hype. Info from a worker at Federal: the BC pellets are simply the same pellets that are in the regular shot shells, they have just not been buffed down and round. They have eliminated a step in the manufacturing process and are charging you more money for a lesser grade product. It's just a marketing ploy by Federal. Of course a non-rounded pellet is going to create a larger hole when it penetrates the bird at close range but any shell will kill at close range.

---

BINGO! We have a winner. BC is exactly as stated above.

But, if you want to truly extend ranges, go with Federal's new heavy weight stuff.

[french_lake_kid]

Thanx mwal, my bad. Just figured the bigger the better. Makes sense though.

[kc0myy]

how do you add a pic. I got one of this goose. but I don't know how to add it

[french_lake_kid]

Start by getting an account at photobucket then let some1 else take it from there. I've done it once and dont remember how after that.

[kc0myy]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee129/kc0myy/Picture106.jpg

ok its up there. Your going to have to copy and paste. on your address bar. but I shot this goose as you can see in the head and neck that was over 50 yards for sure. With a 3.5 black cloud BBB load. it folded it dead. As soon as it hit the water. It was dead. I am not saying buy these shells and can hit birds and kill them at 100 yards. What i am saying is I love this stuff I think its a whole lot better then just steel. Thats my opion and everyone has the RIGHT to there on opion on subjects.

[Shack]

Click link beelow and this will help!

FM Photo uploading directions! Click link!

[Shack]

Also, you duck guys crack me up!LOL .

I just read this post lock to lock!

[kc0myy]

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee129/kc0myy/Picture106.jpg?t=1192727631

[bass-o-matic]

I just love how this HSOforum turns every thread possible into preaching and belittling. The guy posted his thoughts on Black Cloud shells and was asking for everyone's opinion ON THE SHELLS!!!! Yes, he mentioned taking a long shot at a goose, so what happens? 98% of the responses to his post preach to him on how to hunt, shoot, etc. and not respond to the original question and share any additional information. I wanted to read peoples thoughts on the new shell, and instead read through 4 pages of badgering the guy b/c he's not as good as everyone else and made a mistake of admitting he took a long shot at a bird. (like everyone else who ridiculed him hasn't done that at least once at sometime in their life) I thought maybe reading the hunting forums it would be different than the fishing forums, but I guess I was wrong. Same belittling, different sport and audience.

Thanks to those 2% of responses that actually gave an opinion on the shells!!!!

[honker23]

I think most of the people try to inform and educate those seeking info.

I don't like to see stories of shooting a goose stone dead at 100 yds, or other stretches of the truth. This leads to the spread of misconceptions about our sports (hunting/fishing).

If this site wants to be as credible as an internet site can be, I think we need to help callout some stretches of the truth to keep some credibility. I think it's great to have kids and less experienced sportsmen use this site for info, but we need to make sure they receive quality info. Because I've seen way too many people shoot at waterfowl they had no chance of killing, or set up way too close to others, making everyone's hunt worse. But if they haven't been educated, you can't really blame them.

Same thing happens on the fishing sites. I caught limits of 16 inchers on lake x in 15 ft of water. When in reality they were 12 inchers, and one year later nobody can catch a cold because 300 people were taking their "16" inchers home for supper.

[bassman222]

Quote:

---

For French_lake_Kid

A common misconception is that a 10 gauge is more powerful than a 12 or even a .410. That is simply not true. If you are shooting a number 2 steel pellet at 1300 ft/ps out of the 10ga and your are shooting a number 2 steel pellet out of say a 20 ga using Kent faststeel at 1500ft/ps. The 20 gauge wins hands down in down range energy. The only reason the 10 has an advantage is that they have more payload and a larger diameter barrel therefore they pattern steel shot better causing the bird to be hit by more pellets. If pellet size is the same. The one shot at the fastest speed is most powerful. Most 10 ga loads are slower than the loads available in 12 or 20 ga. The amount of shot and a superior pattern cause people to believe they are more powerful

Mwal

---

Exactly!

Which is why I handload and shoot a tight choke.

If you think about it, the superior load would be one that you can throw the fastest and maintain dense evenly distribed patterns at the range you want.

All of my loads are going 1675-1850 fps and throw killing patterns out to 40 yds.

[commander019]

Quote:

---

Thanks to those 2% of responses that actually gave an opinion on the shells!!!!

---

Your welcome. And for the guy who stated BC is better than regular steel shot, thats what BC is. It's just plain old un-buffed steel shot.

[commander019]

Just out of curiousity have "you" ever used a range finder to determine ranges.

Yes

A goose decoy on the ground looks a heck of a lot different than a goose flying straight above your head.

Looks are one thing, distance makes no difference.

I have personally watched geese dropped from 70 to 100 yards up. I hit them with a range finder flying over me and watched people shoot at them after they flew by. And this was with steel. Not too say that you can consistently drop them, and not that I recommend it but it can most certainly be done. With the old federal 3.5" BBB I could consistently drop birds to 70+ yards.

Not saying it can't be done but its highly un-likely. Shot velocity at that range would be so low that it would have a tough time getting good penetration, espically on a goose. But thats just a fact of ballistics so take it for what its worth.

And before you all jump on your high horse I was young and did a lot of pass shooting.

I don't own a horse.

[Bryce]

Find it hard to believe that Federal buffs or grinds down all those uneven edges. That's a lot of shot to process. Would believe it is more likely that they use a method that produces round shot in one step. Just me guessing though.

Haven't read this thread carefully. Is there an estimate of the lead used to down this goose? That should give you a pretty fair estimate of the actual range. While there are many designer loads available that are lethal to 100 yards, there are very few shooters that are used to the lead required on such extreme ranges. Like the range finder idea. I think most shooters would be surprised how limited their personal kill range actually is.

[RBuker]

Quote:

---

I think most shooters would be surprised how limited their personal kill range actually is.

---

Others would be surprised at how far a good shot can reliably pull down geese.

I hesitate to talk about how far out geese can be brought down with the new premium loads. But, let me assure you that with the proper load, geese can be in trouble from a very long ways away.

[Govno Glava]

Quote:

---

And remember, black cloud is still only steel. Steel looses it's engergy fast. I wouldn't be afraid to take a hit from any steel shell at 100 yards. But, I'd sure be looking for cover if I knew the shooter had hevi-shot or some other premium shot.

---

Quote:

---

I would not be afraid to stand at the other end of a football field with may back to you and let you take a shot, it won't do too much.

---

The oil is running low in the old brainpan on you two gentlemen. Just about every shotshell manufactured will still break skin at 100 yds let alone the BBs used for geese.

Quote:

---

Info from a worker at Federal: the BC pellets are simply the same pellets that are in the regular shot shells, they have just not been buffed down and round. They have eliminated a step in the manufacturing process and are charging you more money for a lesser grade product. It's just a marketing ploy by Federal. Of course a non-rounded pellet is going to create a larger hole when it penetrates the bird at close range but any shell will kill at close range.

---

Standard mfg process for steel shot is to cut cylinders from steel wire and run it through a ball bearing mill to make nearly perfect spheres. 40% of a BC shell charge looks like a sphere with dimples at the north and south pole with a ridge around the equator. This did not come from a ball bearing mill. Odds are these are being pressed into this shape which may in effect be cheaper than running through a bearing mill. Cut one shell apart and take a look.

[fishkid]

first my avatar is old and i am 19 now. i have used this stuff and like it alot. I have taken geese down at sixty yards goose flying into the wind, and thats because we missed the first couple shots at it. And yes it was dead before it hit the ground. All it takes is one bb to his the right place, and with the razor edge thing on some of the bb's i think that it would cut up and penetrate a little better then some other bb's. We had a wounded goose at 70 yards on the water and killed it with 3.5 inch bb black cloud. personally i think that is pretty impressive. But a 100 yard shot, i htink that is deffinatly pushing the line, and any other true duck hunter would know to never try to shoot and kill a flying bird that far away,

[commander019]

Quote:

---

Standard mfg process for steel shot is to cut cylinders from steel wire and run it through a ball bearing mill to make nearly perfect spheres. 40% of a BC shell charge looks like a sphere with dimples at the north and south pole with a ridge around the equator. This did not come from a ball bearing mill. Odds are these are being pressed into this shape which may in effect be cheaper than running through a bearing mill. Cut one shell apart and take a look.

---

That info came from a fereral employee, take it for what its worth.