Barry Bonds

[Scott K]

I thought once he hit it, we wouldnt have to hear about it anymore, but you guys keep it going. Leave it lay! Please, I am sick of hearing about it!

[fishyguy]

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I thought once he hit it, we wouldnt have to hear about it anymore, but you guys keep it going. Leave it lay! Please, I am sick of hearing about it!

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I don't mean to sound rude, but are you really asking us not to discuss this because you are sick of it and can't keep yourself from reading this thread if we do continue to discuss it?

[Mudcutter]

if you took roids, you'd be an (Contact Us Please). Period. I don't care who you are. Bonds is a cheat, liar and uses his kids as a shield to the press. The guy may have the record- but he's a world class loser in my ballpark- I think more highly of a guy like Glavine, someone with class- someone I can relate too with hard work. Bonds was great before he roided' up, but now he put that drop(actually cups) of [PoorWordUsage] in the water to taint his reputation forever/

[schweady]

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Big Time, Schweady!

I am right there with you. He is the biggest "tool" in the shed as far as I go. Lie, cheat and steal and I would throw Sosa, McGuire and Palmiero right in with him. He just set the biggest record so the attention is on him. Notice, I will not even use his name. As Michael Corleone says, "He is dead to me".

Windy

Windy

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

PS

In case the Cubs logo throws you, I am a die hard Pale Hose fan but I lost a bet to my buddy Geno and this is the payoff. He posted my World Series Trophy in April and May and I have had to pay out with the Cubs stuff in June and July.

Windy

[fishyguy]

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PS

In case the Cubs logo throws you, I am a die hard Pale Hose fan but I lost a bet to my buddy Geno and this is the payoff. He posted my World Series Trophy in April and May and I have had to pay out with the Cubs stuff in June and July.

Windy

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C'mon Windy. Geno is ready to welcome you over to the north side. Wear that Cubs logo with pride, no need to explain. If you become a Cubs fan you will be rooting for a NL team and can then root for our Twins during the regular season without compromising your own loyalties. Sounds like a pretty good plan, doesn't it?

[blue_healer_guy]

Plain and simple for me, the purest swing in baseball, roids or not.

[juggs]

I'm amazed at some of the takes on this topic. Like taking steroids doesn't make you hit the ball. Duh! This Bonds thing will be a black eye on baseball for the rest of its history. The only practical negative ramification he will have is a very outside chance of being denied the Hall of Fame, not by the commissioner but by the writers who vote. But that's unlikely. Baseball blew it when they failed to implement a steriod policy until 2003 when the water was already under the bridge. Did Bonds cheat? Who hits 73 homeruns when they're 37 (or ever for that matter) and 136 more over the next three years?? Who puts on the muscle mass like he did....oh, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa and just about every WWE clown pumping who knows what into their blood. Besides, like mentioned earlier he admitted to taking the cream and the clear, not knowing what they were (really??). You can't write a driver a ticket for speeding when there is no limit. So MLB has to live with this era of freakish stats and there's nothing to be done about it because they dragged their feet on steroids. Bonds has two huge records under his belt and they're both illigitimate but it doesn't matter because he didn't do anything illegal. The record is tainted and Bud Selig is a joke. Baseball has had a history of dealing with cheaters in a way that preserves the integrity of the game....until now.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

MJ

I might have to take issue with that statement. I think Ichiro or Ted Williams may have had the purest swing in baseball. "You know who" (I won't use his name) does have a pure "power" swing but Ichiro or Ted could out hit him every day and twice on Sunday. Another person to throw into the catagory of pure power swing would have to be The Big Hurt, Frank Thomas, for those 10 years he was the most feared hitter by any pitcher and most third baseman! His swings used to be absolute rocket shots every time. Just my .02 might get some discussions started.

Windy

[genegodawa]

As a Cub fan, I gotta throw "Sweet Swinging Billy Williams" into the mix....plus you gotta add that HOF guy from the Cardinals - his name escapes me - oh yeah, Musial.

[ozzie]

best pure swing is not even an issue....Griffey JR....Williams was a hitter and so is Ichiro but neither had or have pure swings...Williams worked and studied the swing and different aspects to hitting that it became a science but not a natural pure swing.....Ichiro is a great hitter but he has an ugly but very effective swing.......

[PierBridge]

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....Ichiro is a great hitter but he has an ugly but very effective swing.......

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No kidding one of the worst swings in the league not sure what Windy was smoking when he wrote that.

I always liked Frank Thomas's game although he is about as close to Barry Bonds social misgivings as player good be.

Where do you guys stand on amphetamines or Speed "greenies" that practicly every major league player has or is taking.

Clearly from a DRUG standpoint the biggest problem in sports?????

I'm assuming thats OK if you like the player?

[blue_healer_guy]

Windy, I mean in recent times. The only time I have seen williams swing is on espn classics. Don't care for Ichiro at all. When I say I like Bond's swing, I try not to think if it was/wasn't affected with roids. I quess what I'm trying to say if I ran a hitting clinic, he would be my first visual I would show.

[genegodawa]

I'm gonna have to agree on Griffey Jr.

Can't argue with success, but Ichiro has a much better eye than swing.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Have any of you ever coached or played? I played very little but did quite a bit of coaching and I think Ichiro has one of the best pure swings in the game. His swing plane keeps his bat in the hitting zone longer than anybody I have seen. I would have to disagree with what you are saying about "Roid Man" (refusing to use his name) I think he has a great eye but like Griffey JR his bat is in the swing plane for a very short time and they both have a very long swing which ususally results in not hitting the ball. The only reason they have has success is their exceptional eye they have for making contact. I would take a team full of Ichiro swings and take my chances knowing that they would be making contact much more often than the "steriod swat". Not smoking anything here in the Windy, just plain ole baseball know how. Rod Carew also had the right idea when it came to a pure swing. Not a power swing, just a pure swing that makes contact with the ball.

Windy

[ozzie]

played alot of ball....watched alot more ball....and have done some coaching of ball.......your points might be slightly validated but they don't make the swing a pure swing....a pure swing is a natural smooth motion.....Ichiro's swing itself is not smooth and natural...put his motion of his body with the swing of the bat and it is a smooth colaboration but the swing itself is not good....also Ichiro gets alot of hits based on his speed....why would the bat need to be in the zone a long time if it takes the bat to meet the ball a fraction of a second to make contact.....You say you played the game a little....nothing against you but go out and try to duplicate some of their swings and you can feel how different these swings are...some feel natural and some feel forced....IMO to say Ichiro has a natural swing is like saying Julio Franco has a natural swing and there is nothing pure or natural in that swing!!!! I love this debate!!

[PierBridge]

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Ichiro has one of the best pure swings

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We were talking pure, sweet, smooth, effortless or good looking swing.

If your talking effective yes Itch's swing is effective but ugly....

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

OK Guys,

I had to go to the record book to validate my point and I think I have been vidicated. In my mind a pure swing is one that allows the bat the most time to make contact with the ball. A pure swing should result in more contacts with the ball, not power but contact. As a result, contact with the ball should result in more hits as a rule of nature and those players should have a higher batting avg as a result. Here are the career batting avgs. of those players being discussed:

Billy Williams .290

Ken Griffey Jr. .290

The "steriod jerk" .298

Rod Carew .328

Ichiro .332

Ted Williams .344

Again, I think I have to say that Carew, Ichiro and Williams have some of the best pure swings in baseball.

Windy

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Sorry Geno,

I forgot to add Mr. Musial to the debate since I did not want to load too many old timers in the debate. His lifetime is .331 so I would give you props for throwing him in as pure swing contender.

Windy

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Ozzie,

The longer a bat is horizontal in the swing plane the longer it has to make contact with a ball that is coming in horizontal. When you get the home run hitters who step in the bucket and take the huge home run swat, they are loading up and usually have an upper cut to their rip. The amount of time their bat is in the ball's contact plane, while powerful, is fairly short. Think of it like a golf club. When you slice your club face is not in the swing plane on a level square position which is why you slice or hook the ball. To hit it straight you want your club face to be in the swing plane for the longest time possible. Same with a baseball bat, if it is moving and horizontal in the swing zone for a longer period of time you have a greater chance of making contact with the ball.

And you guys thought I was just a dumb Sox fan!!! LOL

Windy

[ozzie]

again Ichiro's avg is based on his ability to make contact and his speed...SPEED being a big factor to his avg....do you have a number on how many infield hits he has in his career??? Ted Williams again was like a scientist with his approach to the plate.....I will say that Ichiro and Williams are 2 of the best contact hitters of all time without a question......even the greats of baseball have commented especially early in his career that Griffy Jr had/has one of the purist swings in baseball ever.....

[ozzie]

i hear ya Windy!! I just love debating things that no one can be "right"

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

OK Ozzie,

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? LOL

Windy

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Ozzie,

I hear what everybody is saying and I guess I look at the results from what somebody is doing. Griffey does have a sweet "power" swing, makes for some huge taters but his avg says that he is not making contact as many times as the others in the group. I would say the best pure free throw shooter in basketball would have to be Rick Barry and he shot underhand. Again, high percentage, ugly looking but pure motion, nothing compared to MJ or Bird but higher percentage.

Windy