Clarification/Update on Bullhead and Castnet laws

[Larry FlatCaster]

Hey Mates,

After exchanging a couple emails with Officer Thor Nelson he did some more thorough research and came up with some definitive answers to Cast Nets and Bullheads with some details on the statues and ordinances.

Listed below is Officers Nelsons response that was sent in a recent email.

Mr. Haugh,

It was good to meet you on the River as well! I'm sorry I haven't replied until

now. It has been a very busy week for all of us from the Enforcement Division

of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. We completed the hosting of a

week long training conference in St. Paul in which 300-400 Conservation Officers

from all over the US and Canada were in attendance. It was a monumental task in

which we were all involved. This is the first time the conference has been held

in Minnesota since it's inception in the 1980's and it probably won't return to

Minnesota for 30 years or more.

I have researched the cast netting issue more thoroughly through the Department

of Natural Resources' Legal Analyst and also through the Fisheries Program

Coordinator. I made an error when I replied to PierBridge's email some time ago

in when I told him that it was legal to collect baitfish with cast nets. It is

NOT LEGAL to use cast nets. I was hoping that you would help me rectify my

error by placing the following information on the board so that we can put

the topic to rest with a definitive answer:

Dear Catfishing forum participants,

I want to thank you for the positive feedback you have given me. I wish to do

the best job that I am able to in regards to protecting Minnesota's natural

resources by enforcing the laws while taking the time to educate and answer

questions along the way. I am human and do make mistakes however. You must

realize that I am responsible for enforcing the regulations for fishing,

hunting, boating, ATVs, snowmobiles, off-highway motorcycles, off-road vehicles,

wetlands, public waters alterations, fires, pollution, state parks and more.

That is a wealth of material! I hastily answered an email from PierBridge a

while ago in which I told him that using cast nets to take baitfish and rough

fish (after May 1st) was legal. I have done more research and found that I

passed on some incorrect information. The use of cast nets is NOT LEGAL. I

regret the mixed answers that some of you have been getting from different

sources within the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. Cast netting is

very common in the southern states and especially off-shore but it isn't a

common practice in Minnesota, like seining and minnow trapping are. I apologize

for my error and on behalf of my Department for the differing information you

have received and I will take you through the laws and logic involving cast

nets. I will also give you some information on the bullheads as bait concerns

you have and at the end, I have listed the email address and telephone number of

Roy Johannes, the Fisheries Program Coordinator with the Minnesota Department of

Natural Resources. Mr. Johannes is a wonderful resource and he welcomes any

questions you may have.

The State of Minnesota has established a search engine for statutes and

permanent rules that may be used if any of you so desire. It is located at

http://www.leg.state.mn.us/leg/statutes.asp The following passages are copied

and pasted from that webpage and they include Minnesota Statutes and Minnesota

Rules that govern the use of nets and traps for the taking of baitfish:

97C.345 RESTRICTIONS ON USE AND POSSESSION OF NETS AND SPEARS.

Subdivision 1. Period when use prohibited. Except as specifically

authorized, a person may

not take fish from the third Monday in February to April 30 with a spear, fish

trap, net, dip net,

seine, or other device capable of taking fish.

Subd. 2. Possession. (a) Except as specifically authorized, a person may not

possess a

spear, fish trap, net, dip net, seine, or other device capable of taking fish on

or near any waters.

Possession includes personal possession and in a vehicle.

( A person may possess spears, dip nets, bows and arrows, and spear guns

allowed under

section 97C.381 on or near waters between sunrise and sunset from May 1 to the

last Sunday

in February, or as otherwise prescribed by the commissioner.

Subd. 3. Dip nets. A person may possess and use a dip net between one hour

before sunrise

and one hour after sunset from May 1 to the third Sunday in February.

Subd. 4. Exceptions. Subdivisions 1 to 3 do not apply to:

(1) nets used to take rainbow smelt during the open season;

(2) nets used to land game fish taken by angling;

(3) seines or traps used for the taking of minnows for bait;

(4) nets, seines, or traps possessed and used under an aquatic farm license; and

(5) angling equipment.

Subd. 5. Rules. The commissioner may adopt rules to regulate the use of nets

to take fish.

97C.511 MINNOW SEINES.

Subdivision 1. Size restrictions. Except as provided in subdivision 2, a

person may not take

minnows with a seine longer than 25 feet, and deeper than:

(1) 148 meshes of 1/4 inch bar measure;

(2) 197 meshes of 3/16 inch bar measure; or

(3) four feet of material of less than 3/16 inch bar measure.

Subd. 2. Licensed minnow dealers. A minnow dealer may take minnows with a

seine that is

not longer than 50 feet, and not deeper than:

(1) 222 meshes of 1/4 inch bar measure;

(2) 296 meshes of 3/16 inch bar measure; or

(3) six feet of material of less than 3/16 inch bar measure.

6254.0500 DEFINITIONS, EXEMPTIONS, AND IDENTIFICATION

REQUIREMENTS FOR TAKING MINNOWS IN TRAPS AND NETS.

Subp. 2. Definitions.

A. A "minnow trap" is any device, other than a hoop

net or trap net, used for the capture of minnows or leeches.

6254.0100 PERMITTED ACTIVITIES FOR TAKING MINNOWS.

Subp. 3. Minnow trap specifications for persons not

licensed as minnow dealers.

A. A person not licensed as a minnow dealer may use

minnow traps not exceeding 30 inches in width or length or 15

inches in height. The diameter or width of the opening must not

exceed 1-1/2 inches and mesh size may not exceed one-half inch

bar mesh.

B. A person not licensed as a minnow dealer may not

use minnow traps with leads.

Please notice the "Exceptions" that are listed in 97C.345 Subdivision 4. These

are the activities that ARE PERMITTED. Cast nets are not listed there, only

seines and traps so cast nets are not permitted. I have included the

definitions of "minnow seine" (97C.511 above) and the definition of a "minnow

trap" 6254.0500 Subpart 2, Paragraph A. In addition, cast nets do not fit the

size requirements of a seine because they are too large as you can see above.

The closest definition to a cast net as provided in statute and rule is a minnow

trap, however minnow traps may not exceed 30 inches in length or 15 inches in

height except by people operating under a commercial license. These dimensions

won't accommodate even the smallest of cast nets either. A few of you have

asked what the point is of these regulations. I understand that the size

requirements are in place to protect the walleye and other gamefish that are

palagic (surface feeding) as juveniles. These juvenile gamefish are very

susceptible to being netted until they are approximately 3 inches in length when

they begin to move out of the upper water columns, where cast nets work best.

On to the bullheads. Currently bullheads can be used as bait if they are not

over 7 inches in length. The reason for the 7 inch size limit, historically,

was because they were common incidental catches in commercial minnow netting and

trapping operations. The Department of Natural Resources Division of Fisheries

is currently working on a rule change that will allow the use of bullheads as

bait if they are not over 10 inches in length. This rule change is being made

because it is recognized that bullheads are an excellent channel and flathead

catfish bait and the rule change will most likely be completed and included for

the 2008 fishing season.

Mr. Roy Johannes, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Program

Coordinator welcomes your questions and he is available through email at

[email protected] and is available by telephone at (651) 259-5213.

Thor Nelson

Conservation Officer

Department of Natural Resources

Division of Enforcement

(952) 233-3587

[email protected]

thanks

LFC

[Shack]

Now, if I take a reg. fish landing net and dip it into a river lets say around 2:00 p.m., this is illegal right now.

I would assume a landing net is the same thing as a dip net.

The water level's are just right now for my second location for bullies, were I can just scoop them up and pick out legal ones. I figured this was legal. It sounds like it is not.

P.S,

Thanks for the info LFC.

[sparcebag]

There are specific dementions for dip nets arent there? I have landing nets and one dip net,I think for smelt there's another demention also

[PierBridge]

Thanks Larry.

Quote:

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Currently bullheads can be used as bait if they are not

over 7 inches in length.

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I am under the impression and fairly certain that if I catch a Bullhead larger then 7"s in the body of water I am fishing in I can use it?

I thought the 7" Bullhead Law was only for transporting.

Can someone clarify this?

Thanks Pier.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Quote:

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Thanks Larry.

Quote:

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Currently bullheads can be used as bait if they are not

over 7 inches in length.

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I am under the impression and fairly certain that if I catch a Bullhead larger then 7"s in the body of water I am fishing in I can use it?

I thought the 7" Bullhead Law was only for transporting.

Can someone clarify this?

Thanks Pier.

---

Pier,

I take it as If its over 7inches it shouldn't be on the hook or in the bait bucket, regardless of the body of water. Otherwise what would be the hubbub on the 10ich bullhead. I would email Officer Nelson your question if there is any doubt

[sparcebag]

Its also in the fishing regulations,I dont have them in front of me,but its there bullheads for bait 7" and less.

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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Its also in the fishing regulations,I dont have them in front of me,but its there

bullheads for bait 7" and less.

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That's not what it says I think your talking about the minnow classification which is 7"s.

Next question, is there limit on the length of Suckers a person can use?

[aanderud]

I think the sucker limit is 12 inches.

[DTro]

The regs define a Sucker "minnow" as 12". It doesn't say anywhere about not using a larger one. Not that I can find anyways.

Thanks for the info LFC.

I really think that a lot of us are really looking way too deep into this. I realize that we all want to abide by the laws, but think of it from the CO's side. Maybe it's just me, but I think the size of your sucker is the very last thing they care about. It's very close to us, but they are out there checking your normal stuff. They want to know, that you as a boater and fisherman:

Have your license

Your boat is licensed

You have all the required gear in your boat

Your not fishing with more than 1 line

Enforcing BUI

I've been checked 2 or 3 times in the last 6 or 7 years, and only one of those on the river. Each time is was a quick glance in the boat, check of license, and "have a nice day".

Some of these issues that can be discussed/argued till we are blue in the face (and they have been), but the gray areas are just that.....gray, even the CO's will not see eye to eye on some of these regs.

Do we really want to force the CO's to make a hard ruling on some of these issues and set a precedent? Maybe....maybe not. I would like to see everything clearly in Black and White, but you can't just take the regs and redline them once a month. Look how hard it's been just to change the stinkin legal length of a bullhead

[rushing]

Some CO's dont even know its legal to use bullheads for bait.

[PierBridge]

Your probably right, being it was a clarification thread I was hoping to get some answers that would help me avoid my first ever fish and Game violation.

[DTro]

My thoughts weren't directed at you Gary, just in general. I would like to know as well, once and for all, if <12" suckers are legal.

It's just that compared to other species and other bodies of water (lakes). There are no priorites for our niche fishing in the DNR. To me that's fine, but if for some reason they all the sudden start enforcing some of these "gray" areas. Then we as a group will REALLY have to start making some noise.

[sparcebag]

Pier,you can email the DNR with your question,I thought you were asking if a bullie over 7" could be used for bait?

[Larry FlatCaster]

I concur we are looking way to deep into this subject. The main gist of what Officer Nelson was trying to clarify us with was Cast nets, As well as a reminder on bullhead size.

Where the 10in bully and sucker size came in?????? Let's cross those bridges when we come to it.

Officer Nelson just wanted to make sure that people weren't getting the wrong idea on the castnets.

[harvey lee]

I have a call into the New Ulm Regional Office with questions in regards to bullhead size and sucker size and they will be calling back shortly with those answers after they research it.

My understanding is that the bullies have to be under 7" unless they are caught out of the system you are angling in that day. As far as suckers, I dont know.

[harvey lee]

New Ulm DNR Regional fisheries office tells me this after thier research..

Bullheads-Limit in lenght, 7" max

Suckers--Limit in lenght 12" max. The sucker your using has to belong to the sucker family as listed in the law book or regs you recieve when you purchase your license.

[Scott K]

I just got a sucker ( minnow ? ) last night from a local baitshop, it was almost 14", they sold it to me, I used it! I had a good run on it too, it hit it hard then dropped it . If 12" is the law, then the bait shops shouldnt sell them that big.

Since we are on the subject, is there a max length for creek chubs?

[PierBridge]

Quote:

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My thoughts weren't directed at you Gary, just in general.

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I know that and I totally agree with your thoughts on this.

Thanks Tom "Harvey Lee" much appreciated.

[PierBridge]

[

[Larry FlatCaster]

good thing Moores doesnt accept suckers over 12 inches.

[DTro]

Quote:

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I just got a sucker ( minnow ? ) last night from a local baitshop, it was almost 14", they sold it to me, I used it! I had a good run on it too, it hit it hard then dropped it

. If 12" is the law, then the bait shops shouldnt sell them that big.

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That's what I'm saying. Does the law apply to decoys? Most are 12" or over.

Until I hear of someone......anyone getting fined, I'm not getting my undies in a bundle.

[Larry FlatCaster]

Quote:

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Quote:

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I just got a sucker ( minnow ? ) last night from a local baitshop, it was almost 14", they sold it to me, I used it! I had a good run on it too, it hit it hard then dropped it

. If 12" is the law, then the bait shops shouldnt sell them that big.

---

That's what I'm saying. Does the law apply to decoys? Most are 12" or over.

Until I hear of someone......anyone getting fined, I'm not getting my undies in a bundle.

---

I think that all bait shops.... wait I know that they are in compliance...

Screw it Im using big 24+ inch sheep head from now On...

[rushing]

A creek chub is considered a minnow which falls under the 12in rule. The big ole decoy suckers are not suppose to be used but...

[Larry FlatCaster]

Quote:

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A creek chub is considered a minnow which falls under the 12in rule. The big ole decoy suckers are not suppose to be used but...

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but......................

were gonna keep on if we want to catch the biggins. LOL

[Shack]

LFC's idea sounds good for now.

The what if's are endless. I have only been checked a hand full of time over the years, but three or four have been this year. As long as you are not doing or looking like something is up, act natural. Just like DTRO said.