woodtick control...

[big bog bobby]

Last week I picked over 200 ticks off my dog. I picked about 70 ticks off myself. Decided to forego a morel mushroom picking expedition... just too many ticks! Maybe the most I've seen in over half a century?

What's the most effective tick protection these days for my dog?

What's the most effective tick spray for my trouser cuffs, shirt cuffs, and collar?

[sparcebag]

Dog Frontline!!You high % Deet!!

[deja vu]

Quote:

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...Frontline!! ...high % Deet!!

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Thank you, but Frontline (fipronil is the active ingredient) and DEET are great for fleas and mosquitoes, but quite ineffective when there are lots of ticks around.

Heartgard (sp?) and Frontline Plus are both made by Merial, and only sold through vets, or with a vets prescription. Vets make quite a bit of money selling these two prescription drugs, and some of them choose not to recommend non-prescription drugs like Permanone (permethrin), even though tick repellents containing permethrin are much more effective.

Bayer competes with Merial in the heartworm, flea and tick repellent market. Bayer's K9 Advantix (imidacloprid and permethrin are the active ingredients) actually outperforms Frontline as a tick repellent because it does contain permethrin, but many vets don't carry or recommend it...

I'm looking for a better solution, and Merial and most vets don't want to talk about it.

Incidentally, I did find a link to an online article by the MN state entemology department, entitled "MN Ticks and their control". The state recommends we should "Use a repellent on dogs that contains the active ingredient permethrin.".

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/DD1013.html

[sparcebag]

My Frontline is from Vet. Heartguard?? thats for heartworm which my dog gets! The deet for me is from the zookeeper,I dont get ticks anymore dog does'nt either.We were gettin em!before treatment! works fine for us & we live in the country! not city life.

[IFallsRon]

We camped this weekend at Crow Wing State park. Me and the Mrs. walked trails and picked up a dozen or more ticks. It must be a bumper crop this year. We're pretty sensitive as the daughter got a deer tick five or so years ago and it took 4-5 weeks for the crack St. Cloud medical staff to diagnose Lyme disease. It was pretty tough on a first-grader.

[Scott K]

I agree the ticks are terrible this year, mostly up north. They arent so bad south of the metro, that I have noticed. The nice thing is another month and they will leave us alone for the most part.

[Powerstroke]

I use deet and the dog gets frontline as does the other 3 dogs in our group. Although we picked ticks all weekend only the people had ticks on them.....go figure. Frontline works so don't be afraid of it.

Tuck in your cuffs into your socks will keep them off your legs. Other than that...

[boxcar46]

OK I'd like to know, where do the ticks go. Do they die off or what. The little bastards are everywhere.

[Scott K]

The majority of them just are dorment during the hot dry summer months. There will be some stubborn ones, but it will get much better come mid to late june. This time of year they are trying to breed and do their thing, they need blood to reproduce.

[deja vu]

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I use deet and the dog gets frontline as does the other 3 dogs in our group. Although we picked ticks all weekend only the people had ticks on them.....go figure. Frontline works so don't be afraid of it.

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Muriel claims that the flea and lice drug in Frontline will kill ticks in '24 to 48 hours'. BUT THE TICKS DROP OFF YOUR DOG AS SOON AS THEY RECOGNIZE THAT YOUR DOG IS TOXIC. Usually that occurs in your house, cabin, or tent, and those ticks that drop off are still alive and looking for some other warm-blooded animal... like you or your family!

If you read the link to www.extension.umn.edu/ in my earlier post, you know the state entomologists recommend using 'permethrin', which really does kill the ticks.

Don't take my word for it, check the various active ingredients on Wikipedia

[sparcebag]

AS SOON AS THEY RECOGNIZE THAT YOUR DOG IS TOXIC.Premethrin is TOXIC,recomended no human contact??? I do trust the vets I take my animals to!And take their advice for animals!! Now if they were bugs,then I'd seek advice from an Entomlogist.

[Jackpine Rob]

Permethrin on your clothes/socks/boots and on the pooch will pretty much eliminate any tick problems.

I use it any time the ticks are out and about, and don't have any problems.

DEET will keep some, but not all of the ticks off. If you're serious about tick protection, permethrin is the hands-down absolute winner.

[smartguy]

It also helpes not to wear bright colors if your in the woods. I read somewhere that ticks are attracted to bright colors.

[fishroger]

if they are stuck on the dog already theres a good chance your dog has tick disease. I lost one dog already from tick disease. My new dog got a lyme disease shot and frontline. I still find a tick occassionally stuck on the dog but the vet says they will not be harmful. The real small deer ticks are the ones to worry about. The shot is suppose to be 75% effective. I use some form of deet and spray on boots, pants, hands, hat. Then when I get home I throw my pants and shirt in the dryer and put it on high for 15 minutes, that fries them pretty good if their on them. Dont be cheap, get the best possible. I had lymes the last 2 years and its no fun. Luckily I new the symptoms and insisted on a inflamation test which confirmed inflamation common with lymes. Took a course of antibiotics and was back to normal. You can try some of the other brands like advantix but they are water soluble and will wash off in the rain. Also your dog should take heartworm meds, the mosquitos are thick.

[irvingdog]

Deet on clothing and footwear is useless. It is ONLY effective on skin. You can make a pretty effective "tick suit" (what I call my turkey hunting cloths ) by thoroughly soaking your cloths with a pyrethrin spray and allowing to dry. This will even last for a couple of washes. (I don't bow hunt for deer in my turkey hunting cloths) Repel is one of the brand names for a pyrethrin spray. Do not put this directly on the skin!!! Once it is dry on your cloths, it is safe.

Health risks behind Pyrethrins is quickly overshadowed by the very real risk of Lymes Disease.

[fishroger]

Where do you get your conclusions from? Im in the woods every day. Deet works for me. It keeps the ticks at bay.

[irvingdog]

Deet works wonderfully. It just doesn't work on clothes.

From Deet.com:

APPLICATION INFORMATION

· Always follow labeling instructions.

· Reapply when mosquitoes begin to be troublesome again.

· Do not soak clothing or bedding in DEET-based repellents.

· DEET products are available in a variety of concentrations. The more DEET in the product, the longer lasting the protection.

· The EPA has noted that individuals of all ages (age 2 and up) can use DEET-based repellents with confidence in any concentration so long as label directions are followed. While the American Academy of Pediatrics has indicated that concentrations lower than 10% are preferable for children, there is no scientific evidence to suggest that this lower concentration is needed. DEET products today are intended for all family members over the age of 2.

· Parents should apply DEET-based repellents to younger children (rather than allow them to do it themselves). It is advisable to put a small amount of DEET-based repellent on the parent’s hands then rub the hands on the face of the child (Never spray DEET onto anyone’s face; it can cause eye irritation).

· DEET-based repellents should be applied to exposed, unbroken skin. These repellents are not needed underneath clothing.

· Do not apply DEET-based repellents to the parts of a very young child’s hands that might end up in the mouth or rubbed on eyes

Plus....it messes up lots of different kinds of fabrics, plastics and nylons.

[sparcebag]

Well at least we know deet is not TOXIC!! I just read labels for ant poisons as I have ant problems Permethrin,Pyrethrin,are main chemicals to kill ants with warnings of NO HUMAN CONTACT!!Dont think I'll be usin it close to my body!!!!Too many label warnings! · Do not soak clothing or bedding in DEET-based repellents,I dont use it in my laundry!

[fishroger]

Where does it say it doesnt work on clothes? check varoius websites on DEET and doesnt say not to put on clothes. It still works. Sounds like your own conclusion. Who soaks there clothes in anyway? Deet has been used for years. If you want to soak your clothes in pyrethrin that your choice, but it seems toxice to me in that concentration

[big bog bobby]

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Permethrin on your clothes/socks/boots and on the pooch will pretty much eliminate any tick problems.

DEET will keep some, but not all of the ticks off. If you're serious about tick protection, permethrin is the hands-down absolute winner.

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Thanks, Jackpine Rob, for your 100% good information. I bought three doses (3 months supply) of Cutter Plus at Menards for less than $5 total. Each application contains 45% permethrin, and the doses are sized for the weight of my dog. Menards also sells similar Bio-Spot doses (3 months supply) for $9. Detailed instructions and warnings on both brands.

I copied some of the info on Wikipedia about DEET, icaridin, and permethrin, to counter some of the misinformation that has been offered on this thread:

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DEET

was developed by the United States Army, during World War II. It entered military use in 1946 and civilian use in 1957.

DEET is often sold and used in concentrations up to 100%. Consumer Reports found a direct correlation between DEET concentration and hours of protection against insect bites. 100% DEET was found to offer up to 12 hours of protection while several lower concentration DEET formulations (20%-34%) offered 3-6 hours of protection.

DEET is an effective solvent which can damage some plastics, rayon, spandex, other synthetic fabrics, leather, and painted or varnished surfaces; it does not damage natural fibers, such as cotton or wool, and has no effect on nylon.

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(P)icaridin

has been reported to be as effective as DEET without the irritation associated with DEET. According to the World Health Organization, icaridin “demonstrates excellent repellent properties comparable to, and often superior to, those of the standard DEET.”

In the United States, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends using repellants based on icaridin, DEET, or oil of lemon eucalyptus (which may require more applications), for effective protection against mosquitoes...

Unlike DEET, icaridin does not dissolve plastics.

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In agriculture,

Permethrin

is mainly used on crops, and is also used to kill parasites on chickens and other poultry. As a broad-spectrum chemical, it can harm beneficial insects including honey bees, aquatic life, and small mammals such as mice. Permethrin can [also] be used in a targeted manner for reducing populations of the deer tick.

Permethrin is also used in healthcare, to eradicate parasites such as head lice and mites responsible for scabies, and in industrial and domestic settings to control pests such as ants and termites.

Permethrin kills ticks on contact with treated clothing. According to the Connecticut Department of Public Health, it "has low mammalian toxicity, is poorly absorbed through the skin and is rapidly inactivated by the body. Skin reactions have been uncommon."

Permethrin is used in tropical areas to prevent mosquito-borne disease such as Dengue fever and malaria. Mosquito nets used to cover beds may be treated with a solution of permethrin.

Military personnel in malaria-endemic areas may treat their uniforms with permethrin as well. An application should last several washes.

(If you treat your clothing, carefully follow the instructions, and make sure the treated clothes are dry before you put them on...)

Products containing 0.5% permethrin:

• Repel Permanone

• Permethrin Tick Repellent

Bonide Ant Dust (0.25%)

Most flea and tick repellant for dogs (Adams, Bio-Spot, K9-Advantix, Cutter)

Permethrin is extremely toxic to fish. Extreme care must be taken when using products containing permethrin near water courses. (Dogs should not be allowed in water until 12 hours after being treated.)

Permethrin is also highly toxic to cats. Flea and tick repellent formulas intended (and labeled) for dogs may cause feline permethrin toxicosis in cats.

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Powerful insecticides... need to be applied and used properly. Read the detailed articles on each active ingredient at Wikipedia. Get the facts straight!

[irvingdog]

Whoops. I'll step forwardand claim my mis-information. I should not have said DEET was hard on NYLON. Other than that, the manufacturers and representatives will tell you that the effectiveness of DEET relies on it's application to skin, in terms of long lasting and realistic results. Of course, they are not often going to step forward and offer this info as a huge percentage of bug spray is applied to clothing. Can you say "Lather, Rinse, "REPEAT".

Yes, Permethrins are hazardous when used incorrectly.

[big bog bobby]

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I should not have said DEET was hard on NYLON.

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I thought you were right to include nylon. I can remember a surplus tent that almost dissolved after being sprayed with DEET. Did our military use some rayon tents in WWII?

Here's some more info from a HSOforum called Stopticks.org:

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DEET products can be used for exposed skin. Several controlled release DEET formulations have been developed which decrease skin absorbtion and increase protection time. Extended duration products include 3M Ultrathon, Skedaddle, and Sawyer's Controlled Release. Concentrations of DEET effective for mosquitoes, especially for children may not be effective against ticks, so tick checks are vital.

Permethrin 0.5% based sprays (on clothing only, not on skin, always follow manufacturers directions) for clothing, especially: shoes, socks, pants cuffs or on other fabrics such as mosquito netting, tents. It is a synthetic pyrethroid insecticide rather than a true repellant, and works primarily by killing ticks on contact with treated clothes. It lasts up to 2 weeks and provides high levels of protection against ticks and mosquitos.

Once dry, Permethrin has a low level of mammalian toxicity, is poorly absorbed through the skin and is rapidly inactivated by the body. Comment: to prevent exposure, do not spray permethrin on clothing on a windy day. Hint: if you regularly do yardwork, you might consider using a set of clothing that you have sprayed with permethrin.

If venturing into tick habitat, a combination of both DEET for skin and permethrin on clothing might be considered.

[irvingdog]

Here's my bottom line. Come up with your own conclusion:

Permethrin, just like any other substance on this earth, is dangerous when used incorrectly. That, and DEET applied to the skin, are an effective method to control ticks and mosquitos.

It is my conclusion that the potential hazards percieved through the safe and proper use of these products is radically outweighed by the very real risk of potential for a life threatening insect borne illness.

BTW, I'm not trying to change anyones mind about DEET on clothing. I've talked to manufacturers and product reps. I've done tremendous amounts of homework on the subject. I'm a pragmatist who once worked professionally in the outdoors industry.

But, trust your own experiences. 10 million Elvis fans can't be wrong.

.02

[Hammer Handle]

DEET is like a "mask" that will hide you from mosquitos. It can work for ticks too, but if you and walking throught the grass and the tick is there...he will feel you and latch on. DEET does little to repel flies. I think DEET does little for ticks also.

[rushing]

All I know is the ticks are still thick down towards the Mankato area in certain areas. I hop directly into the shower after being in a tick infested area and check myself really good but they are persistent lil buggers and I will still occasionally find one on me after checking and a shower. For days afterwards if I feel a little something I immediately think its a tick and frantically try to find it. Its usually just my paranoid imagination, but after my ex GF got lymes disease bad enough to be put in the hospital I don't like to take any chances. Thanks for the tips guys!