Question On ATV Private/Agricultural Use Registration

[Dave S]

Scott,

good points about Minnesotans heading to cheese land for our recreational fix. In fact, there is $45 million spent in WI each year by recreational tourists, 1/3 of which comes from MN. If this doesn't turn on a light for someone on the hill in St. Paul we need to get them out.

The bad thing is there is too much red tape to tap into the $8 million that we have in the grant-in-aid fund. If we could change the legislation to allow the DNR to spend some of this money at will to establish trails or riding areas without having a group supply the startup funds, it would ease the pain.

Personally I don't think there would be so many laws broke if we had someplace in Southern MN to ride without having to drive 3 hours.

[slotlimit]

Scott,

I totally agree. It would be next to impossible to make a law for driving on the shoulder of roads. But if a Farmer with ag intended purposes can do it (which is great, not arguing that) then I should be able to also. I don't know if a Farmer can drive and unlimited number of miles to a field or not? Bob do you know? Say you have a field 10 miles away can you drive to your field and back on the road? I'm sure their is a certain point that you would just rather drive your vehicle but if you wanted is their a limtit to the distance you can drive on a road? Does it have to be a certain type of road? Can you drive on a highway? Cause to me if a farmer can drive on a raod to and from his field no matter the distance then so should everyone else. Now if you get caught driving your ATV in a matter that is considered unsafe or irresponsible. Then you should be banned for a period of time from road driving. Now that I think about it that law shouldn't be hard to write. No driving in town, no driving on highways, maybe not driving after dark, no unsafe driving, a speed limit, maybe even having flashers. I'm sure I'm missing a couple of things but it doesn't seem that hard.

[BobT]

I would agree that stopping an empty rack is a challenge. My Kawasaki 300 is rated for 1400# towing but I find it hard to believe considering the ATV only weighs 850# with me on it. I will admit that I have used it to pull empty gravity boxes and racks but it is limited to say the least. As far as violations, sure I imagine I have made a few. I live on an unregulated township road so it is legal with or without an Ag permit but I have driven on a county roadway as well when I take it to town to fill it with fuel. In this case it's a choice between unlawful ditch running or unlawful shoulder running and I choose the shoulder because it's faster and I get off the road quicker. Perhaps to some degree to lessen the possibility of getting caught but also to reduce the potential for accident. Actually I'm not even sure the local authorities would press the issue. I've seen plenty of ATVs at the local convenience store getting fuel so its no secret that we do it. I guess some day I might find out the hard way. The Ag permit doesn't allow this either way so it is of no consequence.

Bob

[BobT]

One thing that bothers me is that there are proposals to add a recreational tax to ATVs just like snowmobiles but I have not heard of any effort to increase riding opportunities in the southern half of the state. Looking at the ATV trail maps, 90 percent of the trails are located up north and for many this adds a huge inconvenience.

I could be convinced to support the added tax if also offered more reasonable opportunities for riding in my area. The DNR wouldn’t necessarily have to buy land to make these opportunities possible. I would think a lease agreement of sorts could be worked out with the local farmers to make it happen and as long as we that use the trails respected the landowners it could work out quite well.

Bob

[aczr2k]

It's simple MN does not want to have any atv travel in the state. period. Why would they? I mean we do only have TWO atv manufacturers in the state. It won't be long and atv's will be a thing of the past at least for riding in this state. It's getting so rediculous if you read the regs I can't even drive in standing water on my own farm land. Instead of trying to ride most weekends I'm going to cut back and ride out of state where they actually encourage you to come and ride, they appreciate your money. It really ticked me off when some snowmobile/atv trails got taken over for bike paths and then made illegal to ride down, even in the winter. I want to see a trail sticker on everything, not just atv's and sleds, I want it on pedal bikes, horses and peoples rearends. Look at the amount of money being spent and tax dollars collected, 2 atvs(11-12K), trailer(1K), trucks and fuel, hotels etc. The winters have been so poor lately that if it wasn't for some illegal atv on snowmobile trail riding most of the off trail bars/restaurants/resorts would have already been closed. Yep my rant is over.

[Scott K]

I like the out of state trails, I can unload at my inlaws cabin, inwhich the trail goes down the road in front of their cabin, the main trail is 1/4 mile down the road. I get on that and I can ride for the entire weekend and put on 400 miles and not go on the same trail more then once. I am legal the entire time! I can pull up into a bar, or gas station and and be greeted and welcomed. If you ride some of the few trails here in mn, and stop at a bar, or gas station, they look at you, like dont come in here if you are muddy! The whole mentality here in mn is totally different, and I dont see it changing any time soon!

[slotlimit]

My wifes Grandparents own a cabin just north of Park Rapids and the trail goes right by their house. I have never gone up there but her aunt and uncle go a couple times a summer and say it's a blast. I'll ask them how they a teated around there this weekend at Easter. If it's good or bad I'll let you know.

[Roofer]

As far as I know, you now can ride water on your own property. This was supposedly a new rule a few years ago, but they don't like to advertise it.

I really don't know why they try to promote walking, biking, or horseback riding. They don't have any registration, so that means no money to the state. They don't even use gas.

If you look at other states, MN is the worst one.

1. No atv's

2. no offroad bikes

3. No fireworks

4. etc, etc, etc

It never ends. And as far as anything political....they never seem to have enough money????????????????????

[Dave S]

most if not all hiking, biking, bird watching, or berry picking trails are funded by state and federal grants, unless of course our wonderful state decides they want to tie these trails in with motorized trails, which to me is shooting yourself in the foot. They're putting several different groups with conflicting interests (ATV's vs. the world) into these trails networks and expect that everything will be hunky-dory. I had situations where I would be on a multi-use trail, riding responsibly, and before I knew it there were 23 horse back riders in front of me. There was no conflict as I abruptly stopped my machine and shut it down per MN laws and waited for them to pass. I was even lucky enough to receive a "Thank You" from every rider that went by.

But I will say that I absolutely disagree with having to share trails with access groups who pay no fees to support the establishment of, or maintenance of these trails. But on the sme note, it's what the state allows at this time and I don't care to create any conflicts on the trails.

[Scott K]

I agree multiuse trails are not for atvs, or sleds. I to have riden on a trail where horses were on, although they were heading in the same direction as I was, I needed to pass them some how, being they were just walking the horses at a couple mph, and I needed to go this direction to get back to my trailer, I stayed back for a while, the people on horses, were using the entire trail, and wouldnt move over. Knowing that I couldnt just force myself past them because of safety issues, I shut my machine off and informed them that I needed to pass by them, and I would take it slow! I wasnt treated very well, I was told to turn around and go back the other direction, I needed to go the direction in which I was going, so my group proceeded to pass the group on horses slowly, and as we were going by, one of the men on the horses threw a half full can of beer at us. I know there are a holes in every group of people, but we tried to do the right thing, and they wouldnt allow us to pass, Im sure alcohol played a part of it. But just one example on how us atvers are treated like dirt. Im sure they went back to their group of friends and said how a bunch of atvs drove by them with no respect, just to give us a bad name.

[Roofer]

For this instance I wish you had a video camera.

I have given pictures to certain people of loggers ripping up a trail and I feel this stuff helps. Maybe we need to use technology to help out the atv community. We already know they use pictures against us.

[Hammer Handle]

I own land with a snowmobile trail through it. No other vehicles allowed, no horses, bikes, or hikers either. Only snowmobiles.

Over the last several years, everyone uses it. Hikers, horses, joggers, and ATV users. I tell them it is only for snowmobiles and most are ok with that...others are very rude.

Why do ATVs have a bad rep? For some (seems like most) riders it is about how fast they can go. This tears up the path terribly. Then, they go off the path and it is worse.

Do to the ATVs and everyone else, I am seeking help to close the path through my land. Because of this, the COs have been out more often and catching people...I think to try to help me change my mind. I can see why the State will not open more land when I, myself, see the damage an ATV can do.

I know my message will not be a popular one, but please try to understand from a non-ATV user and land owner. And, it is not just ATVs.

[BobT]

Whether it is important or not, it is a message that needs to be heard. As others have already mentioned, we have a responsibility that goes with ownership and privilege. When we abuse it, we can lose it.

One thing I will say in defense of ATVs vs. snowmobiles is that snowmobiles move along much faster than ATVs and they are just a prone to leaving the trails. Around here we see where they've been riding all over our fields even when they are posted about planted trees and the like. I remember in 2000 when we had quite a bit of snow, they would fly through so fast they literally jumped our township road. The snowbanks were high enough that they couldn't possibly have seen a car that would happen to be there until it was too late. I couldn't help but imagine a set of skis running through the window of a car.

Seems with many of the things we do, the thrill is more valuable than common sense and responsibility.

Bob

[Hammer Handle]

I agree.

I planted about 30 pine trees 20 feet from the snowmobile trail edge. After three years, the snowmobiles have "chopped off" all the trees but 3.

The snowmobiles also set up a "road course" on my field by the trail for fun and fast driving. That got away with it for I don't live by the land. The person that does told me when I wondered why I had tracks all over my field.

Some people just don't care anymore...and that will hurt all. I also read the "Mud is Coming" post and some was written as a "joke", but that was not funny at all to me.

I had ATVs run across my CRP land (tall grass) two years ago. You can still see where they went through and the tracks are still there and the grass has not come back yet.

I quit planting trees on my land thanks to losing so many to deer, drought, and unwanted vehicles. I lose more and more each year. At least when the deer eat them, they grow back.

I see you are in Osakis, BobT. My land is in Douglas County. Great area!

[Dave]

Hammer Handle,

Sorry to hear of your troubles with motorsport users. I'm not going to try and change your mind. You have every right to be upset. I probably would be too. Seems more and more, whatever we do, people just don't care about others any more. Sad to see.

[Roofer]

I hear you hammer handle. I have most trouble with snowmobilers also. Notice I say sowmobilERS, not snowmobiles. It's not the machine that bothers you.....I think it's the part of unauthorized entrance. I have seen atv tracks around our gate at our cabin, and I even knew who it was, but it [PoorWordUsage]ed me off.

Please don't blame the machines. It's the same as the gun control freaks. It's not the gun, it's that person or possibly their parents to blame.

On a side note. I live in a rural area near a lake and it is mostly quiet. The main people that upset me are those gotdammed harley biker wannabe's. You know, the guys who wuss around in a suit all week and then think they are a tough biker on the weekend with their loud arse bike. There has to be something done about the noise level!

[firemedic5586]

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I seen this on a previous post but the people that had them just stated that they just use them to check there fences and not just anyone can have them. I looked this up because I've just baught a new ATV and need to register it. I took this off the DNR site:

ATV Private/Agricultural Use Registration ATVs (Class 1 and Class 2)are registered for private use when used exclusively for agricultural activities, harvesting wood or on private property. A private use registration is valid until the ownership of the ATV is transferred.

By getting the dual permit from what I have read is you would be able to legally be able to drive on state and county roads. With the public permit you can just ride outside ditches and township roads. So if I carried around my chainsaw I should be able to drive on the road???? Maybe I would be better off carring some logs around???

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Let me through this into the pile of confusion... Look at the definition of a class I ATV. Now look at your riding lawn mower.... Do you have your lawn mower registered with the State? You should, because it fits the definition of a class I ATV. Drive your mower down the street right next to someone on a wheeler and see who gets pulled over. So I ask you this, why are the ATV registration laws being selectivle enforced?

[Dave]

I don't believe so because they're sold as "lawn mowers" and not "ATVs". I'm sure some lawyer will argue that though.

[firemedic5586]

If I sold you a cow but called it a duck, does it still not moo?

My John Deere rider meets all the requirements in the legal defintion of a ATV. The laws in this state are so messed up its not even funny. Did you know you can register an ATV in MN as a snowmobile, and take to the sled trails while remaining totaly legal. Just as long as you meet the states definition of a snowmobile. "A self propelled machine designed for snow, steered by ski's or runners". In other words just putting ski's on the front meets the defintion and your legal.

As everyone knows tone and inflection of words cannot be sensed on the net. I'm not trying to come across as a hole. However I have had corispondence in the past with the DNR regarding these matters. They were the ones to start quoting the exact rules and regs giving me the feeling that it was either black or white. As in the letter of the law, not the intent of it. Another for instance "Metal traction devices" for snowmachines pertain ONLY to tracks. So you could stud up or put chains on your wheeler and be totaly legal to ride down a paved trail that bans studs. Now I know it wouldn't be right to do so, but it would be legal. For that matter your could put skis on the front of a Suburban chains on the rear and take it down the Munger trail and be legal.

[Dave S]

But I bet that most any CO in MN would give you a ticket for any of the alternate scenarios you listed. Theoretically, what you said above, you can register your lawn mower as an ATV since it meets the definition, so in turn could you make the modifications to your lawn mower to make it a snow worthy vehicle with skis on the front. Sorry, I don't think that would fly. As Dave mentioned, machines are sold with a specific purpose in mind. Out of the safety classes that I have done, at least half of them were posed with the question of riding ATV's on snowmobile trails if it was equipped with a track kit and or skis. The answer is no everytime. The machine was built, branded, marketed, and sold as an ATV, regardless how it's equipped, and the laws on the books clearly state that ATV's are not allowed on snowmobile trails in most cases here in MN.

Honestly, this is one of the frustrating things for CO's in the winter are those who look for ways around the laws. I'm not pointing blame to you firemedic. You brought up some very good points. The laws do leave a lot to be desired.

[firemedic5586]

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But I bet that most any CO in MN would give you a ticket for any of the alternate scenarios you listed. Theoretically, what you said above, you can register your lawn mower as an ATV since it meets the definition, so in turn could you make the modifications to your lawn mower to make it a snow worthy vehicle with skis on the front. Sorry, I don't think that would fly. As Dave mentioned, machines are sold with a specific purpose in mind. Out of the safety classes that I have done, at least half of them were posed with the question of riding ATV's on snowmobile trails if it was equipped with a track kit and or skis. The answer is no everytime. The machine was built, branded, marketed, and sold as an ATV, regardless how it's equipped, and the laws on the books clearly state that ATV's are not allowed on snowmobile trails in most cases here in MN.

Honestly, this is one of the frustrating things for CO's in the winter are those who look for ways around the laws. I'm not pointing blame to you firemedic. You brought up some very good points. The laws do leave a lot to be desired.

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Despite your good intentions in passing this information on in these safety classes, you did pass them wrong information. Check your premonitions, stereo types, and bigotry as to what an ATV, snowmobile, or even a boat is or should look like at the door. Here is what the State Statutes say they are, not me you, or even the DNR. Contrary to what the DNR says or believes they must follow state statutes.

Off-Road Vehicle see subd 6,7

ATV see sbd 8,9,10.

Snowmobile see subd 3, 13

Boat see subd 1

Sorry to tell you this but yes I could put skis on my lawnmower and register it as a sled. Speaking of sleds here is a Snowmobile that wouldn’t make it on a few trails in the state. We are dealing with the letter of the law, it doesn’t have to make sense. Yes a CO just might right me a ticket, and once I show up in court a judge would toss the ticket out. We are dealing with what the law says something is, or is not. As an example, I have a set of Mattracks for my Sportsman 700. Once I put tracks on my Sportsman legally it is no longer a Class I ATV, it becomes an ORV. This is now not legal on ATV trails, however once tracked up it’s a lot more trail friendly then it is when it has rubber on. If this can of worms doesn’t have you frustrated yet, try this on for size. I could launch a boat with my truck and back it in till I have water pouring into the cab and be legal. If I were to do the same with an ATV, technically once one tire breaks the water line I could be fined for a wetland violation. Confused yet? How about buying yourself an ARGO , then toss some PFD’s in it along with a fire extinguisher. Poof you now have a boat and or a Class I ATV all depending upon how you have it registered or what your doing for the day…. Now mix some cattails and a day of duck hunting into this equation, it could get expensive for you if you don’t have it registered as a boat.

I have no ill will towards the CO’s. They have a hard job and cannot keep up on exact wording of every law they enforce. That is why I’ve spent the time to look into what some of the statutes actually say. Not what the DNR pamphlet says they say, or what one CO thinks it means.

[firemedic5586]

Sorry to have sort of Hi-Jacked the thread... If powers to be wish I will be more then happy to start a new one.

Like I had said, in Dec03 I picked up tracks for my wheeler and talked with one of our local CO's Darrell Danielson (Dapper) about buying a snowmobile license for riding trails. (He has been retired now for about a year) He couldn’t see anything wrong with it personally. I asked him to look into it and see what the official party line was. I learned once the hard way that what one “cop” tells you is legal just might not be. Here is a C/P from the e-mails that ensued.

Hi Pat-

Had a guy call me yesterday and he will be putting tracks on his

6-wheeler to use as a snowmobile. It is currently registered as an ATV.

Does he need to have dual registration as a snowmobile to ride on state

snowmobile trails? Thanks, Dapper.

If he puts tracks on the back and skis on the front to steer, it will be

a 'snowmobile' under 84.81, sub 3, and will need to be registered as a

snowmobile. If, on the other hand, they use four of those track devices

and it is not steered by skis or runners, it isn’t a snowmobile, isn't

an ATV anymore w/o the flotation tires, and will need to be registered

as an ORV. Messy, I know.... It's all in the definitions in statute...

Short version - Once those low-pressure ATV tires are replaced with

track devices or a combination of tracks/skis, they are no longer an ATV

by definition, and by default would be an ORV by definition in law. The

same is true for some of the heavier ATV's that are over 900lbs, they

too default to be an ORV under the definitions in law.

If you use a combination of track devices and skis to steer, it would

then meet the statutory definition of a snowmobile, would need to be

registered as a snowmobile, and could operate lawfully on snowmobile

trails.

DNR staff have been discussing these various vehicle accessory options

and how they change the vehicle status under the statutory definitions.

To date, no decision has been made to change these

definitions/regulations to any extent.

However, these accessories are getting more and more common, and I

suspect when the price comes down a bit on these devices, we will see

even more of them.

Last year's legislative changes, including a ban on operation in

wetlands and unfrozen public waters, and off trails in state forests,

has caused quite a stir on both sides of the fence. I expect we will

first need to see how the environmental pieces play out this legislative

session before addressing registration/definition changes.

If you are interested in getting changes to the various laws, you may

want to contact your local legislator regarding your interests. In

addition, there are user groups for the various types of activities -

MinnUSA (snowmobiles), ATVAM (ATV's), and others - you may find these

folks have similar interests/concerns as well. These groups are very

active in the legislative processes, and generally have someone 'on the

hill' most of the time.

I trust this covers your questions for now. If you need any further

information, please let me know. Pat Watts, DNR Enforcement

YMMV, but this is my story and I'm sticking with it. As stated before I am not trying to come across as a hole. I have spent a bit of time looking into this stuff just so I wont get my but in hot water. I have found that in this little section of state law I am better versed then some of our CO's. If you have any questions I can give you Pat Watts e-mail and quiz him yourself. Other wise feel free to say that I'm blowing smoke, but please have a state statute to use as a back up. As compared to personal feelings.

Take care besafe

[Roofer]

A class 1 atv cannot turn into a class II atv by adding tracks. The law says that it is a weight limit of 900 lbs GVW, I believe. This is like saying "If I let 400 lb Uncle Bob ride my machine, now it is over the 900 lb limit and now a class II atv"

I have seen a ATV registered as a Motorcycle before so anything can happen, but it's not right. I don't think you could register an atv as an ATV and also as a snowmobile.

[Dave S]

Roofer,

I will have to agree with FM5586 on this one. He has done his homework and has obviously spent a significant amount of time researching this. And I admit, he has proven me wrong.

When I had my V-Force, I always wanted to be able to put a track and ski kit on it to be able to ride it on the trails in the winter time but thought it was illegal. So I never made the purchase.

FM,

thanks for the links. Very helpful. But I still wouldn't consider the tires on my John Deere GX255 flotation or balloon type tires..

[firemedic5586]

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A class 1 atv cannot turn into a class II atv by adding tracks. The law says that it is a weight limit of 900 lbs GVW, I believe. This is like saying "If I let 400 lb Uncle Bob ride my machine, now it is over the 900 lb limit and now a class II atv"

I have seen a ATV registered as a Motorcycle before so anything can happen, but it's not right. I don't think you could register an atv as an ATV and also as a snowmobile.

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I dont think I said by adding tracks to a class I ATV it now changes to a Class II. If I did I'm sorry. If you have eather a class I or class II ATV and you put tracks on it, by statute it no longer is an ATV. It now becomes a ORV, you now get to play with the "trucks".

As for cross registration sorry to say but what you may or may not feel is right doesn't matter. The state doesn't care what you used your machine for yesterday, nor does it care what you may use it for tomarrow, your on a sled trail today and you best have a "snowmobile" and it better be registered, and by the way were is your trail pass. The state mandates cross registraion all the time... Look at those real nice pull behind trailers you can haul a wheeler in, camp out of, then crank it down onto the ice and fish in. When your in there fishing and the CO walks up and asks you were your ice house permit is, try telling him "Permit I dont need no stinken permit, I already paid the state once and registered it as a trailer." He'll tell you to press hard, 3 copies.

While typing this I just had a thought and will bounce this off you guys. I dont have a sled, but I know you need a trail stick when riding on certain trails. Correct me if I'm wrong but if your on a lake with your sled and one of those trails crosses the lake you now need a sticker? Following this logic, if I'm out there on my wheeler, is it thereticly possible that I could get tagged for having my machine on a snowmobile trail? I'm not saying a CO is going to run me down just to tag me or anything... I'm just one of those people who always thinks outside of the box...

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't out to get me.

Go to the sticky posted at the top of this ATV section that has the ATV rules. See pgs 9-13, it covers proper decal placement for dual regestered ORV's. The state isn't going to miss a chance when it comes to getting money from those of us who burn gas to have fun. But you can bike and ride horse for free.