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4 stroke or 2 stroke?

backlash 1

By backlash 1
in Boats & Motors.

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backlash 1 Proficient

backlash 1

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It is time to upgrade my 6 yr old boat and am shopping for a little bigger rig. I am undecided if it is worth it to hold out for something with a 4 stroke or will a 2 stroke be just fine? Operation economy between the two?

Also the used boats I have seen lately are very rarely maxed out to the horsepower ratings. Is there a rule of thumb percentage to use when trying to decide if the motor is big enough for the boat?

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caseymcq Veteran

caseymcq

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What size of motor are you looking at getting? If you are looking at a mid range motor (25 - 90) I would suggest a 4-stroke. Anything bigger and you could go either way. The nice thing about a 4-stroke is not having to monkey with the oil. The nice thing about a two stroke is they are typically lighter. If you are planning on doing any trolling with the motor a 4-stroke may operate a little better at low rpm. I have a Yamaha 75 hp 4-stroke that is fuel injected on my boat. It came equipped with a switch that when the throttle is cut all they way back the idle speed can be adjusted in 50 rpm increments. It works pretty slick for trolling.

I would suggest getting the max horsepower your boat is rated for or getting very close to it. It is better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. If you get the max hp for the boat and you are concerned about fuel economy just ease back on the throttle. A larger motor won't have to work as hard to push the boat at the same mph so you may actually get better milage with a bigger motor. It also is a good idea if you will be loading the boat with a lot of people or gear. You will be thankful that you have all the snort you can get.

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Stratosman Veteran

Stratosman

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If you do alot of trolling, 4 stroke is the only way to go...hands down! I bought a 90 Suzuki 4 stroke last fall and growing up breathing oil while trolling with my dad and now running a 4 stroke, the extra $ is well spent.

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dkf Collaborator

dkf

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Go with a 2-stroke. The reason you see so many underpowered boat packages at the dealer is to keep the price down. I always put the max hp on my boats. The main reason 4-strokes are so popular is because dealers push them because they make more money on them. 4-strokes will run smoother at lower rpms but thats what a trolling motors are for. 2-strokes don't use gas too bad until you get into the V-6 outboards. You will get more power, less weight and a cheaper purchase price with a 2-stroke. There are less moving parts with a 2-stroke and it will last longer than a 4-stroke. Get the max hp for your new boat if you can afford it, the extra power will get you up on plane faster and can help if a storm comes up. You don't have to run wide open all the time you can run at 1/2 throttle to save gas a still have the extra power when you need it. Have fun with your new boat and haappy fishing.

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Scott K Grand Master

Scott K

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I think the the bennifits of the 4-stroke outway 2-stroke by far. Fuel economy, quieter, less smoke blowing in your face, not needing to buy injection oil all the time, idles smoother, and just having less oil and fuel dumping into our lakes, are just a few. I would give up a little weight differrence, and a few dollaes for that! As for more moving parts and more maint. I have had mine for 6 years, oil changes and lower unit lube change once a year, thats it!

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backlash 1 Proficient

backlash 1

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Of course, I am looking at used now, but in the 16 1/2'- 17' length. If I were to go new, I think the best bang for the buck would be Alumacraft Navigator 165 or Classic 165. Hull weights are 965# against 880# Max HP on the navigator is 90 hp, Classic is 75hp. The length on the two is 16.7, and 16.5

So far I have not seen any used boats that are matched up with the max HP, and i'm not a speed demon, I just want to cruise along at 3/4 throttle about 35 mph or so, because most of my destinations are from 5-20 miles from the dock. Also, as with my old boat, the wife says a side console is a must.

I am replacing a 16' lund Rebel SS w/40 hp Yam 3 cyl 2-stroke. (top speed about 30mph with 2 people & gear)

Trolling is not a huge factor right now as we usually use the electrics for that. Backtrolling is not easy with a console, unless the wind comes up, then backtrolling works very well with the 40, or I use a drift sock, works good too with the 40.

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VMS Experienced

VMS

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I have the Navigator 165 console with a 90hp yamaha 2 stroke on the back. From the get-go, I have used Amsoil HP injector oil in it and the smoke is minimal to non-existent. It will burn cleaner than yamalube or any of the other name brand oils, so fouling is not an issue at all.

The plate on the navigator does say 90hp, but it could easily handle more... If you choose to go 2 stroke, I would look at the largest displacement engine you can find. The yamaha is the smallest in displacement, and I guess I notice it on the low end of things.

If you can afford it, I would seriously look at the new 90hp honda with the V-tec. That motor has intrigued me since I first heard about it. I think the E-tec would be a close second as well, but it will be more expensive. Either engine will be as good as the other in pollution.

The navigator is a good boat. Rock solid and really does well in harsher conditions.

Steve

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marine_man Grand Master

marine_man

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In the HP range you're talking about I'd seriously consider a 4 stroke. The E-tec might be a good choice as well, but I'm not very familiar with them.

At the very least I'd try and keep the motor HP within 75% of the max hp to assure that you won't be unhappy with the performance.

Good Luck!

marine_man

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Ray Esboldt Mentor

Ray Esboldt

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I'll agree with the less noise thing, but I know my 2-stroke Optimax 90hp does better on gas than my brother's 80hp 4-stroke Yamaha. There is no smoke either. And, there's better top end. The one thing that it does not do better than a 4 stroke is idle down. If you do quite a bit a trolling, a 4 stroke is a better option.

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dkf Collaborator

dkf

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If all the 2 stroke hype were valid they would be under the hood of your car.

Cars and boats are two completly different things.

Once you get above a certain number of cubic inches as in may cars and trucks the fuel economy would not be there. However the 2-stroke could easily make alot more hp per cu in than car engines. 2-strokes can handle the sustained high rpm better than the 4-strokes. If your out for a geeser cruise go with a 4-stroke if you want performance and run your boat you need a two stroke.

If your oil injection stops working (which rarely happens) pour some oil in the gas tank and keep on going. I think you should be more concerned with breaking a timing belt or hopping a tooth on the 4-stroke and being able to do nothing about it on the water.

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dkf Collaborator

dkf

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Does NASCAR run 2 or 4

Nascar. grin.gif The most advanced 4-stroke technology in the world. They still run carbs and every car they have in nascar is not even close to anything the manufacturers produce. Nascar is just advertising and enertainment IMO.

Again automobiles and boat are completely different beasts.

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VMS Experienced

VMS

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Couple of things that need to be considered here Dances...First, if you are going to make a comment, please justify it with at least something.

Second, in a car, airplane, boat, etc, we have 3 VERY different engineering systems taking place, and hence designs that best fit the need.

Your example of cars being 2 stroke if they were that good...Now...one thing cars have that outboards do not is a transmission that allows higher speeds at lower RPM levels due to gear changes. So...although a 2 stroke engine would work in a car, the lower RPM's would cause it to load up...Make me a 4 stroke engine SMALL enough to handle a transmission, float the average fishing rig level, yet still make the required horsepower and it would sell...good luck on that transmission idea though...

In Aircraft, they are designed to perform in high altitudes...and if you have ever tried to step out of a plane at 36,000 feet, it would be awfully cold, and you couldn't breathe. So...An oil injection system would not work because the oil would get too thick to work in the environment, and the mixture would require a higher amount of oxygen in order to function properly.

Now here is something you can try with your lawnmower or some small engine... Try mixed oil in it for a short time and then check the cylinder compression. It will be higher, which would mean you are creating more "umph" when the mixture burns. Is this good on your engine?....definitely not. It leads to more wear and tear, and overall less engine life.

One last thing on the 2 vs 4 stroke: Neither have catalytic converters on them, so regardless, neither is as good as could be emission-wise. And..independent studies have proven some of the new 2 stroke technologies are more environmentally friendly than the 4 stroke. Its really a wash in the end. You pay more for the new 2 stroke or 4 stroke technology, but you save in gas... A standard 2 stroke is cheaper, and requires oil, and more gas... If you do the numbers for the AVERAGE person out there, you will find little difference.

So...Dances...please substantiate your comments...it helps to keep the debate healthy and would help validate your comment.

Steve

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SmokeOnTheWater Newbie

SmokeOnTheWater

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I'll agree with the less noise thing, but I know my 2-stroke Optimax 90hp does better on gas than my brother's 80hp 4-stroke Yamaha. There is no smoke either. And, there's better top end. The one thing that it does not do better than a 4 stroke is idle down. If you do quite a bit a trolling, a 4 stroke is a better option.

I saw your brother's boat. When he put on the stainless prop the 80 yami ran circles around the 90 merc. It looked like "Smoke on the water...fire in the sky"

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