Pheasant limits

[skunk-ape]

Several good points made against raising the limit. The most important to me is hunter satisfaction. There are several public spots around my area that have been very good the last several years and i'm sure that's been the case around most other areas as well. Those spots will be burned out that much faster if the limit is three. I know on two occasions last season I could have shot more roosters after I got my 2 bird limit. I met other hunters preparing to walk the same area and I was happy to tell them that there still should be some birds for them.

Ya, I know I can self impose a two bird limit but will everybody else do the same.

I definitely agree with the reasoning that this is all about money.

We are not South Dakota. If and when our DNR can effect or influence changes in Minnesota's habitat situation so our state resembles South Dakota, I will then support a three bird limit.

[tealitup]

Do you really think that the number of licenses will rise if the limit is changed to three? From two to three will bring out all these other hunters? Come on -

Second, if there were more hunters and there was more licenses sold there would be more money for the DNR to help the population - its all related.

So what if the limits where changed from two to three and we had this huge amount of hunters come out; we would help the economy, help the population, help the DNR and get more hunters in the field - including more youth and first time hunters. Does this not help in the long run in protecting our hunting rights?

If you do not want the limits increased are you worried that you will have more competition for space and land?

[Rooster Chaser]

As a teacher I find it hard not to laugh at this post. That thought is as ludicrous as saying that guys who second and third shift, or folks who are retired are responsible for ruining the hunting for guys like me, who can only make it out on the weekends. I highly doubt that the teaching profession is responsible for the wholesale slaughter of roosters on the Thursday and Friday of MEA week.

When you choose a profession I hope you look in to the upside and downside of what you are getting in to. I am not going to lie and say that I do not feel fortunate to be a teacher, and have a schedule that frees up some time in the summer, or in this case MEA weekend, but I am also going to say that I do go to work during those times. The planning and work that go into making ones self a good teacher require me to do so. That means I am planning programs during my "off" time, going to school to work with a student who needs extra help, taking college courses to keep up with my license requirements, and spending time meeting with colleagues to plan the upcoming year, all of which are hard to do during the school year. But, why do I have to justify myself to you? I did not get into teaching so I could get a job where I could skate through life with breaks all the time. I got into teaching in order to work in a profession where I felt like I could be a positive role model for kids, and with that comes an unconventional schedule.

How many of the folks that were driving around killing all of your roosters during MEA weekend were parents who took advantage of the break and took some personal time to spend with their kid hunting for a period of time longer than a weekend? If a parent has a chance to take advantage of that why wouldn't they? It gives them a chance to hunt with a little less pressure than the weekends, and it is a time for the parent to teach their kid how to hunt the right way. Do you begrudge them for that?

I am enjoying the "up years" we are experiencing. I hunt a lot more at the end of the season than I do at the beginning of the season. The reason I do this is to get away from the crowds, which also means that it is more challenging. I live for that challenge, and it allows me to get out and enjoy the freedom of the hunt. A two or three bird limit is not going to change that.

[skunk-ape]

If you understood my post you would have seen that my main argument at keeping the limit at two was for hunter satisfaction. The youth and first time hunters you refer to are most likely going to have a better quality hunt if there are some roosters left for them to shoot which in turn keeps them interested in the sport. This would do more to protect our hunting rights, help the economy, etc.

No, I'm not worried about more competition for space and land. I'm worried about providing the best opportunity to harvest a rooster spread across the most hunters possible.

I just read in the Outdoor News about this subject. According to the article, the limit discussion was started due to a legislative mandate. I guess I don't fully understand what that means. The article also mentioned that the three bird limit wouldn't begin until a couple of weeks into the season.

The article also noted that an informal survey on the topic was taken at the Pheasants Forever convention. 80% were in favor of leaving the limit alone.

[kaz2611]

raise the limit to 3 and ban the use of dogs. I enjoy hunting pheasants probably more so then whitetails the sudden adrenaline rush of a flushing rooster is the greatest.3 major factors play into the pheasant poulation 1: winter

2: spring

3: cover

lately we have had mild winters no major storms preceded by freezing rain. springs have been fair in most areas but our cover(CRP acres) declined minnesota is known for cold long harsh winters with alot of snow which translates to wet springs which translates to poor hatch which means less birds. we are due to get one of these bad winters and with crp acreage on the decline this could spell disaster for our pheasant population. ask yourself this "do we have too many pheasants" im sure your answer is no. before dnr decides to increase the pheasant limit they should increase the limit for canadian geese to 5 the first week of the regular season statewide then drop it to 2 the remainder of the season. but back to pheasants i havent used a dog for a few years and have come to enjoy it alot more the sudden flush of a bird from at your feet is heart racing and with your heart racing you have to let rudy get out a bit before you can shoot and be stable enough to make a good shot. I could care less if i shoot a pheasant or not its a definate bonus when i do which is usually but as a hunter just being out amongst the wildlife is rewarding alot of hunters and fishermen forget its about enjoying nature not just about killing something to eat or to hang on the wall and brag to their friends. dont get me wrong though i have had a dog and they are awesome to watch stalk a pheasant. leave the limit at 2 remember a few years ago everyone was flocking to south dakota to hunt pheasants with gas prices these days would you still want to drive 250 miles to hunt or drive less than 100.

[grab the net]

If we ever get back to a normal Minnesota fall/early winter where we have a foot or better of snow by mid-november. My prediction is you will not see the larger than normal numbers of late season hunters as we have the past couple of years. Not a lot of hunters have the fortitude to battle a hundred yard walk through knee deep snow to hit the cattails, then fight their way through lodged cats, getting wet, falling through, etc.. The last few years the walking has been as easy the last week as it was the first, probably easier since the sloughs are frozen. I also sense a recurring attitude that somebody else (the early season hunter/casual/only hunts the 1st couple of weekends) may get more birds than they are entitled to -vs- the hunt every weekend/has a dog/die hard. If the weather pattern holds up, mild winters, dry springs, good nesting conditions, there will be enough birds for all of us. I am also a firm believer that a late season rooster off of public land, is worth three maybe four early season birds, much more satisfying, for me anyway.

If this weather keeps up, it all may be a moot point anyway.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Rooster Chaser-

as a teacher, I thank you for the well written post. Very well stated!

[lawdog]

Quote:

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How many of the folks that were driving around killing all of your roosters during MEA weekend were parents who took advantage of the break and took some personal time to spend with their kid hunting for a period of time longer than a weekend? If a parent has a chance to take advantage of that why wouldn't they? It gives them a chance to hunt with a little less pressure than the weekends, and it is a time for the parent to teach their kid how to hunt the right way. Do you begrudge them for that?

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Actually if you bother to actually read either post I said both that the kids (and yes some of their parents I presume take vacation days to coincide with your scheduled days off) are out on MEA too, and also that I don't begrudge you guys your time. I merely said a lot of birds get killed that weekend and it would be a lot more with a 3 bird limit

[Note from Admin: Please Read Forum Policy before posting again]

[ccarlson]

Lawdog,

The number of pheasant hunters that weekend is also astronomically high because it is one of the best weekends to get out hunting for everyone regardless of your occupation. Lots of people take extra days off around that week because it's great hunting and usually great weather.

As far as the pity party that you talk about, I think you are sensationalizing the topic. I don't see any teacher asking for any kind of pity that you mention. Joel stood up for teachers and looking at his profile, I don't even believe he is a teacher. Rooster Chaser just had some good comments but didn't seek any pity that I see.

I think people that complain about other peoples jobs, or look down upon other peoples jobs, do so because they are not happy with their own career. I say if someone is unhappy about your job, do something about it. Do what it takes to change it rather than being unhappy and attacking other people's careers.

From what I have experienced, people that complain about teachers either assume all teachers are liberal democrats or they make less money and see teachers as overpaid. Usually people that make more money than teachers don't make negative comments about teaching as a career. If anything, they think "why would someone get all that education and then settle for a job that only makes that much money." Teachers know it is about more than making a decent income which goes against your pity comment.

Teaching is a great, rewarding job. The best part is that anybody can do it with the right skills and education. Colleges are accepting applications any time.

ccarlson

[Deitz Dittrich]

Lawdog, I dont need a pitty party... I didn't ask for one. I love my job! Love the time off! Love the time on! But, I am not to blame for any shortage or not of birds, as I have never shot one in my life.

Now bass?... I catch a ton of them on my time off during the summer months!

[Rooster Chaser]

Hunting those late season roosters is what I live for, and there is nothing better than flushing them out of the cattails. The past couple of years have been frustrating because there have not been a whole lot of opportunities to hunt the birds in the snow, but I did get a couple of good hunts in right after some snow. The first was down in Iowa after we got snow in November, the birds held, the dogs pointed, we took eight birds in an hour. The other was the last day of the season up here. I must have flushed 30 hens out of just a couple of cattail patches, and the two roosters that did get up flew away unscathed. Both hunts are memorable, and it had little to do with how many birds I took. It had everything to do with following my dog, hitting spots that looked choice, and having the still of the day shattered by a bird flushing with my dog on its tail. I did not run in to a single soul either day.

The biggest threat that I see to our string of good years is the discontinuation of CRP enrollments for the next two years in the new agriculture budget. I am not too worried about this snow we have been getting, but I would be more worried if we start to lose the habitat that we have now. If you get a chance go to PF's HSOforum and follow the link that allows you to contact your legislator and express to them the importance of the CRP program.

Lawdog, I was not looking for a pity party, just asking you to quit stereotyping people based on their profession.

[grab the net]

I thought this thread was about pheasant limits possibly going from 2 to 3. We all think our jobs are more important or we work harder than the next guy from time to time. Lets get off the soap box boys, besides you all know I have the toughest job in the world. I missed the glenwood meeting, the next closest to me will be Little Falls, March 8th, at the Court House. The legislaitve mandate just means the lelgislaure told the DNR to explore the issue, that is what they are doing with these meetings. The meetings are listed in the O.News this weeks edition.

[cw642]

It is kind of funny the way this is going. It seems as though most are against the raising of the limits. Has anyone looked outside? This is the first time since 1999 we have had snow falls of over 10". Then we get 2 large snows in less than a week. As many have pointed out, we have been very lucky to have such great hunting the last few years. As the fencelines and cattails fill birds will strugle to find food. As a result fewer will survive. Put that together with a wet spring, and a low hatch. Next falls head lines may read some thing like this. "After years of near record pheasant harvest, season outlook is bleak at best." I hope this is not the case but it could be. I have to question why is it never enough for MN hunters. We are fortunate to have a lot of hunting availiable. Many throughout the southern parts of the US are in a drought and their populations are unhuntable, Yet here in MN we just want more, more, more.

[harvey lee]

Getting back to the original question at hand, I would vote for a three bird limit. One rooster can take care of many hens so I see no problem with allowing a 3 limit day. For many hunters that really wouldnt amount to many more birds shot. I realize that storms and wet springs can raise havoc with the populations.

If we could get back to the old farming practices and also have more set aside and a few other programs then it really wouldnt matter.

We need cover and nesting for the birds. I had a uncle that farmed by Herman, Mn. and in the sixties they had a great bird population. Then there was a bad winter and the birds were all but wiped out. I do believe that a year later the DNR closed the season and it still didnt make any difference. The hunting pressure is one thing but Mother nature can do more harm.

[gspman]

I'm for 2 birds. One day we'll have a real winter and one day we won't have as much good cover. Right now we have a lot of birds living in marginal cover. I've seen numbers of birds in spots the last 2 years where I've never seen them in my entire life. Those birds will cease to exist after a real winter.

If this cellulose based ethanol thing takes off we'll be losing a lot, if not all of the crp ground. We'll be back to where we were 10-15 years ago. Basically very little decent cover. Even as things stand right now we still don't harvest anywhere near as many birds as SoDak and Iowa usually do.

The reason we have the hunting we have had the last several years is insanely mild winters, decent springs and some decent core cover. Take one or two of those away and we're back to the old days which frankly wasn't that good.

Also just because a rooster is capable of breeding 12 hens doesn't mean it will. Having a few "surplus" cock pheasants around will help ensure that all available hens are bred.

I would, however, support a longer season. Keep the limit at 2 and let us hunt them until Jan 15 or Jan 31.

If it ends up that it has to be a 3 bird limit then I would support the idea of having a 2 bird limit the first few weeks of the season and then upping it to 3.

For me there is nothing compelling to push the limit to 3 birds. We have been lucky the past few years and are at a pheasant population peak right now. People forget what it used to be like and are expecting this good fortune we are having to last forever. I don't think it will.

I think a little restraint and caution should be exercised and we should stay at 2 birds.

[Deitz Dittrich]

your right.. sorry I got off topic.. I am one whos opinion on this is probably not well informed. As I am not a phesant hunter. But I would think the only reason to raise the limmit would be an overpopulation of birds. Since I have not heard talk of that. I think a 2 bird limmit is fine and should not be raised to 3.

[lawdog]

There aren't going to be squat for birds left after this storm is done down here anyway. This is an absolute killer storm, as bad as any we've had since '97, the 2-3 days of constant blizzard conditions will bury and sufficate many birds. Raising the limit to three at any time now is just going to be utter nonsense.

[harvey lee]

Agreed Jeff. This storm will devestate the bird population. The ones that didnt die in the storm will have a very hard time finding food under all the snow.

[grab the net]

Hey Lawdog, I have not heard back from buddies down in the Marshall, Ivanhoe area, but having grown up in that area, I can imagine the drifting. Does it look as bad as I think it probably is ? If it does, your right, they should probably think about shrinking the limit to 1 or issue leg tags, 5 for the season.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Deitz, you know we can absolutely change that!!!! Come on down sometime and we'll go shoot some ringnecks.

Like dog and Harv said, after this storm there won't be near as many birds left, however. This is mother natures way of evening the score and we shouldn't mess with it. 2 birdies has worked well for years, why fix what isn't broken??

[Gadgetman]

keep it at 2. nuff said

[Deitz Dittrich]

Quote:

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Deitz, you know we can absolutely change that!!!! Come on down sometime and we'll go shoot some ringnecks.

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Thanks for the invite Boiler... Can I come down during MEA weekend?...

Ok.. I hope everybody knows that was a joke...

Boiler, I may take you up on your offer some day.

[lawdog]

Quote:

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Hey Lawdog, I have not heard back from buddies down in the Marshall, Ivanhoe area, but having grown up in that area, I can imagine the drifting. Does it look as bad as I think it probably is ?

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I would say worse. Honestly I can't even come close to cutting through this with my skid loader. There is so much snow that I have no place left to pile it and I have 3' across most of the driveway again after the night. Oh and the wind is still blowing about 25 mph and this is day three. Its ugly.

[harvey lee]

This will be very hard on all the wildlife until the snow coves melts. Been a long time since this has happened.

[riverrat56]

I guess I don't see why this is even being considered by the DNR obviously almost everyone is against the raised limit. I really don't think it will happen anyways, since when does the MN DNR get more liberal in their limits, seasons, or laws?

No one hunts for survivial anymore, just the 23 odd bucks a licenses and stamp costs could buy about 4 or 5 chickens and some taters to go with it.

Like said before there may be no negetive biological effect of raising it but there is there a positive for it?

Also I don't know how having more Roosters around at the end of the season doesn't lead to more around next season. I mean if that bird is in my freezer it deffinatly wont be around next year but if it isn't there is more of a chance. I guess I don't know how that statement makes sence at all really that you can't carry roosters over. How many times, even opening day, do you flush roosters and hen in a 1:1 ratio? For me its more like 2:1 early in the year and some days in December it seems like 100:1. It would stand to reason that is because more hens survived the winter before.

I don't disaggree that the life expectancy is around 9 months, but how much of that average is brought down by chick mortalitly and hunting? If the survial rate was looked at from birds that are say 6 months old till they are 1.5 years old would it be higher and if hunting wasnt a factor would it be higher still?

So really what I'm trying to say is leave it at 2.

An aside, one thing I have noticed is that the increased number of birds has deffinatly brought out more hunters, the private land I got on this year was amazing compared to past years, but the public was average at best. A 3 bird limit would have really shot up the public land more than it was already. Late season was tough because of 2 things, lack of snow meant we were hunting smart birds in all there cover not just the thick stuff and lots of hunters never hung it up this year because it wasn't as tough as normal.