Where to let the bait sit?

[Fishin Beast]

There is a small river in Wisconin that I get out to for walleyes or smallmouth, but I know there is a decent population of catfish, probably channels?

I only fish right next to one of the dams, only once have I seen fisherman at the tail end of the hole with a cat rod. The dam has about 3 main chutes coming out and I would guess the deeper parts to be around the 6-10 foot area. After about 75-100 yrds it becomes a very shallow flat for a large stretch. River width would maybe be about 15-25 yrds in most places except for right at the dam.

I have never caught a catfish in my life, but I am going to make sure I get one this year (never fished for them either).

So I guess I am asking where to cast since it is mostly just waiting for a bite.

[hanson]

Fishin Beast-

Sounds like you've selected a pretty good spot to start. A dam is a natural barrier for the fish and you can almost bet they are stacked up near there.

Next time you are down there, pay attention to the current on the surface. Are there any current seams or eddies? One of the dams I fish has a real nice eddy off to the side of it. I try to cast out to where the slack water meets the fast water and let it sit. Sinker weight will be entirely dependant on the current speed, 2-3 ounces should be sufficient.

Good, proper bait will also up your chances. Nightcrawlers will catch cats but they'll also catch darn near everything else in the river as well. The standby around here is mooneye, goldeye, or sucker minnows cut into chunks. I would absolutely stay away from stink bait, dough bait, or other commercially available prepared baits. I don't think they are as effective up here as they are down south.

Good Luck to you.

Besides fishing right below the dam, there should be some very good spots in close proximity downstream as well.

[Dennis Steele]

The thing about cats below dams is you probably will find them just about anywhere. Inactive cats will be found in slow or slack water. Actively feeding cats will be found in the faster water, or more accurately, the little pockets of slack water found in the fast water.

Some of the key locations are current edges, current seems, pushes and chutes.

Current edges are where slower water (or even slack water) meets faster water.

Cats will hold just along this edge waiting for food to be washed along in the faster water or drop out of the faster water into the slower water.

Current seems are where two currents of similar speed fold together. They can be going in the same general direction like where two of the dams chutes spill out. This creates a tunnel as the two roll togheter. This is a classic spot for cats to hold.

Another type of seam is where two currents coming from different directions collide forcing one current up and the other down. Typically, a break in the bottom is formed and there is a small portion of slack water at the base of the break. One of my favorite features to target.

A Push is where the bottom rises sharply and creates a dead spot along that break. A good spot to try especially when water levels are dropping. A push can be seen on the surface by looking for smooth water flowing into riffles. The push will be just upstream or directly under the smooth water.

Another form of a push is where current meets the shore line dead on. Water is forced up and split in two directions creating a dead spot at the base as well as two small eddies.

Chutes are channels cut into the bottom where water is being funneled through. Cats will hold along the drop on each side of the chute.

And last is the dam apron its self.

Cats will hold in the water directly under the spill way. Typically the water rushes out of the spill way or chute and there is a little tunnel that is created at the base of the dam. This is where the big boys like to hang out.

I just keep trying spots like these untill I locate a few cats. If cats are present you will know in just a few minutes. I usually give a spot about 5 to 10 minutes before trying something else.

Cats will tend to move from one spot to another, so when its starts to get a little slow on the spot your fishing, just move on and try a different one.

[Fishin Beast]

Thanks for the feedback, next time I get the chance I am definitely going to try for some cats. I will post how I do also.

Kinda scares me how much all you know about catfish

[Random guy]

Quote:

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Kinda scares me how much all you know about catfish

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Trust me, these guys will freak you right out when it comes to cats.

[ratherbefishn]

Dennis that is some great info!

Fishin beast, If you dont mind me asking what river system are you looking at? I fish a few up northern wisconsin myself.

[Random guy]

Something funny for you cat guys to think about.

The other night I had about two hours between meeting clients and thought;"I'm going to drive up and down the River and look for spots to try for cats." I didn't see any "pushes" or "seems" or "current edges" I did find some killer backwaters with breakline that could hold a possible emerging weed line in summer that would have solid oxygen and baitfish stacked up for the musky to chow on, if the river had a solid musky population...guess it's all in the eye and what you want to see?

I drove up and down the Minnesota in that area and never did see a "good" spot to try.

[Dennis Steele]

The current areas that I described are more visible in the faster currents below a dam. The faster the current the more pronounced these features are.

These features can be found in every stretch of river. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but after some expereince on the river you will be able to recognize them even in slower moving waters, or deep moving water.

For example the small ripple that moves along the outside of a snag would indicate a chute.

Where the river takes a sharp bend and the current brushes along the bank could indicate a push.

Where a large eddie makes its full turn and folds once again into the main current would form a current seam.

They are there, sometimes they are not all that obvious.

[Random guy]

Aahh, young grasshopper has much to learn.

Honestly I did find several spots where the current was pushing around and item or difference in the structure in the bank.

I found where points formed pointing down stream from feeder creeks or other inlets to the main river. This did some crazy stuff to the current. You could see where the faster moving main river water was slamming into the slower inlet water and almost sliding against each other then forming a slack water area or "swirl" down stream about fifteen feet or so in the mouth of the feeder.

I also came across a smaller river or flowage that formed a point that pointed up stream. This point appeared to be cutting a fair amount of water off of the main current and diverting it into the almost still creek and just rolling it around until it dumped it back into the main current upstream about fifty feet then rolling it back in again. Then the other side and tip of this point must have been what you guys call a push? The water was slamming into the point head on and just churning it before it slid sideways about twenty feet and making a seam about twenty to twenty five feet out from shore where the current was dead still next to shore then out at the seam it was ripping' along.

Another point of interest for me was fast moving water coming into the main current. You could see the current difference out into the river a long ways. In my very limited catfish knowledge this seemed like everything was just moving to fast to make sense or hold fish?

Trying to learn this and figure out how it holds fish should keep me amused for a couple of years. I could write a book on lake currents, wind generated currents, saddle pushes, "island wind current rolls", bait fish wind grouping, blow over bait and how musky will relate to those conditions. Give me a quarter mile of muddy river water and all I could tell you is-"River goes fast, don't fall in"

What do you guys think of the spots I described? Worth trying or do I need pictures?

[rushing]

As hanson said dams are good due to being a barrier and combine that with the spring spawning of channel cats and they sometimes get piled up behind em. If the weather is nice I might go try Rapidan Dam this weekend.

[hanson]

Jon-

I think I got a headache from reading that. As Fisher Dave would say, you better get out and fish. He tells me that all the time, but it is true, and you know that from your muskie fishing.

The best way to learn what works and what spots are best are to fish them and learn from that experience. I do realize that we are here to share knowledge and teach people as well, but there are some spots I've learned from Dave that break every rule imaginable!! And he would have never found them IMO following conventional thinking.

Another thing to consider is depth of the water. Deeper is not always better but relatively deeper water within a given stretch of river is a good thing. Its easier to decipher depth while in a boat with electronics but it is another piece of the puzzle that should be addressed.

The "perfect" spot usually will pull together a number of factors such as depth, current, and cover.

1 example where depth paid off for me was last summer on the Red Lake River for Wiskers FM Cat-Gathering. Fishing was slow! Very slow!! My dad & myself hadn't caught a cat all day fishing below the dam. I decided we needed to move around and find something nobody had fished yet. While trolling aroud, the depth of the river stayed approx. 8' or so in the main channel. As we approached the first wing dam below the main dam we found a hole that was near 12' deep, so a 4' change from everything else around. Within 5 minutes of placing baits, dad was hit and he landed a 14 1/4 pound channel cat, the biggest cat of the day. That cat was in the hole relating to the deepest water in that stretch of river.

Someday, I'll really figure these fish out but until then, I'm going to continue to learn and share along the way.

[Random guy]

One fun thing about checking out the river after work is the funny looks I get from poeple. Here is a guy in a suit and tie with his pants rolled up and he's crouched down staring at the waters surface. You can hear the cars putting on the brakes to look until I walk back up the bank.

I'm going to have to just try spots, mostly by the dams right now until I can pick up on a few things.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I agree with Hanson, unfortunately I have read so many articles on where to find cats and gotten a bunch of advice from the veterans on here, but many of the spots that That Guy catches fish in seem to break all these rules. It's a matter of just trying spots and getting lucky with finding a producing spot. This year, I'd like to try some new spots that maybe no one has fished before. Maybe I'll get skunked, maybe I'll find a new honey-hole. All I know is that the Mississippi has a lot of cats, and there bound to be there somewhere.

[ratherbefishn]

Ralph its funny you say that. The 1st 3 spots I caught flats out of I have never seen anyone catfish the area there. Sure got some funny looks when I was tossing a 10" sucker out. The other thing is I was catching them while it was daylight yet but never did much after dark. Like you say theres a ton of cats out there. I just happend to run into a few while fishing eyes and got hooked after the 1st one.

Jon, while scouting one thing to remember is you have to have a place near where the big guys hold. It could wood, wingies, eroted banks, Ect... the list goes on but the breaks in the current are you best clues to where they will be feeding the majority of the time.Some days I have had better luck not fishing directly on the structure but the breaks on the upstream side. Sometimes this is 100-150 feet away from the structure I think is holding the fish.

[Mr Special]

If there's alot of snags near the dam, I'd suggest using a 3way rig. Make your dropper line to the sinker of less#, so it can break away if snag and you can still salvage the rest of your rig. Also if your shorefishing some very sturdy rod holders, Y stick just don't cut it when a cat hits and runs. Trust me I've lost a few nice rods.

Later

[danlk]

very good advise in other posts. just one more tip. Try to get some flat slip sinkers. you can make your own. Mold fRoM cabeles, maybe find them in some shop, they lay flat on the bottom. A bell or egg sinker rolls in current and finds a home in a rock or snag just trying to make or cattin moRe fun . DLK

[DARK30]

[rushing]

I know that spot dark! Its by a tree!

[DARK30]

Uh oh, At least one person knows it. We'll have to spend a few hours there Rob! Actually, the land I use for access has been sold and I haven't contacted the new owner about getting down there yet. Its a long boat ride if you don't plan on spending the night.

[rushing]

We will definitely have to do some fishing this summer

[Fishin Beast]

How shallow is too shallow when fishing cats? will they be under a tree trunk in 2-3 ft of slack water?

[Dennis Steele]

Ah ha!!!

I couldn't think of where that spot was, but you just gave it away!

Long boat ride, but easy walk if you know the land owner.

[Dennis Steele]

First I wouldn't think of cats prefering slack water. There has to be some current feeding into the area that they hold.

I am not affraid of fishing shallow.

Timing is more of key in shallow water.

Mid summer, one of my favorite patterns is targeting mid river snags or more correctly the "chutes" that are created by the current going around the snag. These areas can be very shallow.

Also flats or shallow sand or gravel bars can be very good in the low light periods nearly all season long.

[riverrat56]

So I was thinking before, I'm pretty good at figuring out a break in a river and swirls and the like, but that is on the surface, does that slack water hold to that line that appears on the surface or can it change below?

[rushing]

Any disturbance on the surface is caused by some sort of structure. Weather its submerged wood to a change in depth.

River currents are almost never exactly the same from top to bottom. The only way it would stay relatively uniform would be if the river was a uniform depth and straight and not moving. lol

First you have water moving (Flowing water tends to want to move faster on the surface than on the bottom).

Then you add in bends in the river (which makes for faster water on the outside and slower water on the inside thus digging out a deeper area on the bend, more shallow on the inside).

Changes in bottom hardness (which can affect depth, softer material gets washed out easier than harder material)

Submerged structure like wood and rocks (Which can make the current faster, slower, deeper, or more shallow depending on the amount structure and where it is in the current).

Bottom line is the current on the bottom can be very different than what it shows in the top or a foot to the left or right on the bottom.

BUT identifying the changes on the surface can point you in the right direction as to what's happening on the bottom. A calm surface might indicate a deep stretch where there might be less current on the bottom than in the first couple feet from the surface. A disturbance at the end of the a calmer stretch might mean that’s where the hole is ending and the depth is becoming more shallow. If you have a boat and a depth finder you can learn alot by paying attention to what the river is doing in relation to depth and structure.

All this information is what I have come to understand by spending alot of time in the small streams of SE MN fly fishing. Most rivers in Minnesota minus the Miss act like small streams on steroids.

I hope this info kinda helps!