Buck Tag Applications??

[almostthere!]

I truely hear what you are saying and I am all for localized deer management strategies, just not a state-wide buck lottery, but you should consider looking for a different area to hunt your big bucks. The people I mentioned earlier all hunt on public lands and they come home with big antlers.

I am a quality meat hunter. If given the chance, I will shoot a forky over a decent racked buck any day of the week.

[grizzald]

It's interesting reading everybody's opinion on this one. One thing we do have to remember is every area has different hunting pressue each year. My area get the dump hunted out of it, it's as simple as that. Bowhunting through muzzleloading. One thing the DNR could look at doing for better deer management in the low number areas is to cut the seasons lengths back, especially muzzleloading. Theres no reason why muzzleloaders should get a 16 day season. This is the time when deer start to heard up and such, and these hunters can sit on along trails and pick and choose what they want to shoot, and this is where a lot of your fawns and does (does which are prolly knocked up) get shot up. If anything have the muzzleloading during the regular firearm season. Also, there would be a lot less wounded deer running around and dieing if they did this. I quit counting this year how many fawns I heard of that got shot, it just boggles my mind that people complain about not having any deer around, especially "nicer" bucks, but yet they still shoot fawns because they have to shoot something otherwise the hunt was a failure.

[Gopher_Guy]

If people wouldn't shoot the first little buck that walks by we wouldn't have to worry about a buck lottery.

Fixing stuff is easy to say, almost impossible to implement. Here are some things that I think should be addressed -

1) get rid of party hunting. Minnesota is one of the very few states that allows party hunting. It's a lousy practice and should be eliminated. Missouri, ND, Nebraska, Texas, Michigan and a host of other states ban this practice. Yes, it would be difficult to enforce but at least the honest hunters would not do it. In fact, I think MN is one of only 3 or 4 states in the union that do not ban party hunting.

2) put antler restrictions on bucks, like PA has done. Last year I saw over 40 bucks. All but a handful were yearlings, I'd say about 30 of them were yearlings. Out of those 30 I'd say maybe 6-8 had at least 4 points on one side. A majority of the yearling bucks are 6 points or less. This would save so many young bucks.

3) encourage hunters to shoot does. what's the big deal about shooting a doe? I'd rather shoot a doe than a yearling or 2 year old buck any day.

4) get rid of gun hunting during the rut. Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Kansas, Illinois, etc., none of them have gun hunting until very late in November or early December in the cases. Meanwhile, you have Minnesota where in the zone I hunt in (zone 3) you have a gun season running every single day from November 4th until December 10th this year, with the exception of a week off November 11-17.

I feel MN DNR is totally lost on deer management. Quantity, not quality is the goal here.

With party hunting, if you have a group of 10 guys that go out on opening day and they combine to shoot 5 deer you still have 10 guys going out the next day to shoot the remaining 5 deer. If you don't have party hunting there are only 5 guys out the next day, half the pressure.

Thirty years ago the deer herd here was small (dad still talks about the year in the early 70's when they didn't even have a season) so they implemented a lottery for does to encourage more bucks to be shot. It worked. At that time MN was #1 in both P&Y and B&C. Fast forward to now and MN isn't even in the top 10 anymore in either category.

[luckey]

Gopher Guy,

First of all, something must be “broken” before it needs “fixing”. I take it in your case, “fixing” means managing the deer herd the way you would like it done. I would agree with some of your fixes. For instance I agree there may be too much gun hunting time. Especially muzzle loader season. Today’s muzzle loaders are just as effective as most rifles and probably much more so than a shotgun. I think muzzle loaders should be treated the same as any gun as far as the season goes.

Advocating getting rid of party hunting contradicts with encouraging hunters to shoot more does. I would have a hard time shooting a doe (one of the 5 who did on opening day) knowing I was done hunting and had to sit on my thumbs for the next week. In this case I would pass on the doe and wait for a buck. Also, 10 guys out hunting can shoot a lot more does than 5 hunters.

You better check the facts about PA before using that state as a positive example of antler point restrictions. The latest reports indicate the deer herd has plummeted and the guy who came up with the plan has been run out of town. Rather than a point restriction, we should use age restrictions. I know this would be very difficult but when you shoot 3 or 4 to a side bucks, you will be shooting the very best of the 1.5 year old bucks. These bucks will never have a chance to pass on their superior genes to the next generation. Eventually we will get rid of all the bucks that develop these baskets at 1.5 years old and leave only the spikes and forks.

You also mention they did a good job 30 years ago in bringing the herd back and now need to change. Well going from a doe lottery (sometimes going 3-4 years without being drawn) to allowing up to 5 does to be taken in many zones seems to me to be a rather big change.

[tripper]

Maybe just maybe if the DNR was left alone to manage the herd we would have an over all healthy herd. Maybe if they were allowed to spend more time in the field studing the herd instead of having to be on capital hill listening to sportsmens complaints and taking directives from elected offcials based on votes. Meny of you are living in areas that never had any deer 40 years ago and now your complaining because you can't set on your back steps and shoot a record book buck. MN is not a Texas farm, never has been and never will be so quit trying to run it like one.

[shae1986]

I dont see the problem with wanting big bucks, and if we manage it there will be bigger bucks. Now the management has to come from landowners not the DNR. And I work hard to find bigger bucks, a lot of miles and a lot of pictures go into finding a harvestable buck, we are managing the land we currently hunt and i believe we will see an improvment in the next 5-6 years.

[almostthere!]

In managing a healthy herd of deer, one must be willing to bag some of the small bucks that show up. We all know that a healthy herd of deer is very similar to a healthy herd of elk; one bull to many cows. If we opt to let all the fawns and small bucks go by and shoot the does and Mr. Bigs (if one should show up), we will destroy the healthy herd and eventually be left with nothing. Shooting does and leaving small bucks and fawns will, in the short term, lead to huge population of bucks and we will be seeing 40+ bucks in one geograhical area per season. However, in the long term, either the buck and fawn population explosion will destroy the habitat (eating every bit of food available) and starve to death or we have harvested all the does that no new generation of deer will replenish the aging and dying deer population.

The DNR is doing a very good job managing our deer population. They are more knowledgible in this field then most common hunters.

[jlm]

That is sarcasm correct?

[luckey]

shae1986,

Believe me, you will not have to wait 5-6 years to see the change. It's more like 2-3 years. Good luck.

[shae1986]

I agree does have to be harvested and also that small buck do too, i shot a basket rack 8 pointer last year, small rack, deer was estimated to be 6-9 years old. It was one that i was happy to put down. I passed on 2 bigger bucks than the one i shot, but they were both 1.5 to 2 year olds. They should be nice bucks next year.

Andrew Shae