Pheasant Gun Advice

[Pherris]

I am considering purchasing an additional pheasant gun. I currently have a Ruger Red Label O/U 20ga and I use it field hunting in MN but when I hunt South Dakota I get frustrated when so many birds get up and after 2 shots I am done until the next flush while my buddy's are still banging away. I have a 12ga pump but it was my first gun and I did not really understand the "fit you" issue so now I want to add a semi auto. I have looked at several and am considering the Beretta optima 391 I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this gun vs. the extreama2 they are now advertising. Cost diff the optima I am considering is 799 I would like to stay under $1000 I have looked at the Benelli but it does not fit well. I am also open to any other suggestions in this price range. Thanks

[walleye_dog]

Check into a Browning Gold. Mine has taken many SD pheasnts in it's 4 years of use. When I looked for a shotgun at that time, it fit ME the best of any. Plus you can usually get em for $8-900 bucks. Plus if you get the 3.5 inch you have many options-goose,turkey,pheasant,duck- all in a soft shooting gun.

[Ufatz]

I believe you have a beautiful pheasant gun. A nice O/U like you have makes a lot of other guys envious. Slow down...take your time shooting and you can, if you want, bag a double every time. Of course then you get a limit quicker, but thats not the real point is it.

Hell, if firepower is your game, look for a nice belt fed Browning 12 guage.

There is a lot more to hunting than filling the sky with lead (or copper or whatever!) HA.

Enjoy that Ruger.

[Mille Lacs Guy]

I prefer the Beretta myself. I also you a 20 gauge over and under but have a 12 gauge auto when I need more shots. I have a Beretta A390 that is really nice. If you can find a used one of these they are nice. I have looked at the 391 and they are nice too. I would not get the Extrema unless you do a lot of waterfowl hunting, I don't see the need for a 3.5 inch. Beretta also carries 391 Citizen if I am not mistaken for less money than the others mentioned that is a nice gun.

[lawdog]

I have a 303 Beretta and a 390, they are excellent guns and you won't have any problems with a 391 either. Beretta is the finest gas operated autoloader made. Totally agree on the Extrema comment above too. Its a waste to buy a 3 1/2 gun to pheasant hunt with.

[Hookmaster]

At which model Benelli did you look? How didn’t it fit?

I have a Benelli M1 Super 90 and love it for all my bird hunting. It is lightweight for pheasants and grouse and handles well for me in the duck blind. I had to change the shims to adjust the point of impact for me. Several shims came with the gun. If you looked at the SBE maybe look at the Benelli M2 which replaced the M1.

Stoeger makes semi-auto shotguns with the Benelli inertia driven action. They have been mentioned on this board. Maybe they would fit you and they list for $400-$500 on Stoeger’s HSOforum.

[Blaze]

Quote:

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...I get frustrated when so many birds get up and after 2 shots I am done until the next flush while my buddy's are still banging away.

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I'm with Ufatz on this one. I guess I just don't get it? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the daily limit in SD 3 birds? Taking quality shots with your O/U should give you your limit on the second group of birds if there's that many getting up. Are your friends that bad of shots (flock shooters?) or do they take more birds than they should? Seems that the older I get, the less its about shooting and more about the friendships, dog work, scenery, and fresh air.

Back to your question, though: the need for the 3.5" that you get with the Extrema is probably beneficial for geese & turkeys primarily. If that's not in your plans, why not save the $400 or so and spend that money on other accessories/toys. I love the 391s and plan on that being my next gun - they fit me perfectly too.

Good luck & let us know what you decide.

[ccarlson]

I'll second the Benelli thought. I've tried the Super Black Eagles but they don't fit me as well as the M series. I currently shoot an M1 super 90 and love it. My nephew just got the M2 which has the recoil reduction system and it is the finest field gun I've seen.

Try both Benelli models before ruling them out. You would not be dissapointed in a benelli and the M series is not as high priced as the SBE series.

But, as you said, fit is more important than brand or cost.

ccarlson

[bigdog]

I have three 391's, a sporting, parallel comb and a camo std model. Great guns, favorite and the one I shoot for pheasant is the sporting model. Keep an eye out for a used one, they can be found for around $600.

[Pherris]

Thanks for the replies so far and please do keep them coming. As far as friends being flock shooters no they are not. My point was not that I want to shoot more birds then allowed and we are very good about that. I am not the quickest or the best shot in the group and it seem that I spend more time putting shells in. Don't get me wrong I really do like my Red Label and will continue to use it in MN and other areas where birds are fewer but when twenty + birds get up it can rattle me a bit and so I usually miss the first. The real answer would probably be to just practice more with the O/U. I will check out all the Benelli guns and thanks for the advice on the extreama2 as I do not hunt duck and as of yet have not tried turkey. Grouse and Pheasant. Thanks again everyone.

[Shorelunch]

I'd vote for a 391 Urika (Optima barrel) as well. They're very reliable with an occasional cleaning. They also have a new model 3901 American, I believe, that's a $100 or so cheaper than the Urika. I traded in a Gold for my 391 and am very satisfied.

[dockehr]

Pherris, I'm going to make a couple of suggestions , one of which is based on a lot of factual ballistic testing (by experts in that field) and a heck of a lot of reading with regards pheasant hunting in this country as well as Europe. The other, my personal preference.

Most pheasant hunting in SD, ND, Montana etc usually involves shooting at fast-escaping, going-away birds that present the toughest parts of their bodies to your shot. Since the idea of pheasant hunting is to kill your target, not wound a number of birds in order to get your limit, why don't you get an over and under 12 gauge?

Then couple that with Remington's Hevi Shot. Hevi Shot is considerably more expensive than most pheasant loads, BUT it possesses down-range lethality that will kill birds where other loads may only wound birds.

I have a rather strong opinion when it comes to being under-powered when bird hunting. It comes about based on the four years that I guided out-of-state and out-of-country ruffed grouse and woodcock hunters. Boy, there were some beautiful 28 gauges, but what a lot of wasted, wounded birds.

Over the past eight years, my partner and I make up to seven trips a year to eastern Montana chasing Hungarian partridge, sharptail grouse and pheasants. I have no problem using my 16 gauge over and unders on the first two species. For the pheasants I switch to my Beretta 686 12 gauge.

So there you have it: get a 12 gauge and use the best most lethal shells available.

dockehr

Dr. Roland E. Kehr, Jr.

Lindy Tackle Company

[ccarlson]

dockehr,

Great idea on the hevi shot for pheasants. I think I'll try that this year. On areas where we have to shoot non toxic I've been using the same load I shoot for ducks which is a 3" #2 high velocity steel. The problem is you don't get many pellets in the pheasant and they can go a long way on a broken wing or a couple pellets in the body. The hevi shot would be a great alternative since I would guess I could go with a #4 or #6 and get more pellets along with the killing power.

What size load in the hevi shot do you use and what choke works best with that load?

By the way, one of my pet peeves is companies like federal selling "Upland" shells that are far underpowered even for a lighweight bird like a grouse. I think it would be fair to say these shells are responsible for many lost birds. They advertise and market them as adequate and they certainly aren't. Then to top it off, retailers such as fleet farm etc., where many guys get their shells, make it hard to find the loads that are good such as the "Hi Power" lead loads. It all comes back to the retailer trying to put the cheapest product on the shelf instead of the best product.

The walmartization of America!

ccarlson

[dockehr]

ccarlson, the Remington #6 Hevi-Shot would be your best bet. Modified or even Improved Cylinder choke. I have even used some # 7.5's when conditions warranted it! These loads pattern tight and the downrange foot-pounds of energy is a real eye-opener.

As to whether to use a semi-auto or over/under, that's a matter of personal choice. Many times that third shot is a "throw away" or "frustration" shot. So why not really concentrate and knock that bird down with the first ( or second) shot?

If you try the Hevi-Shot, let us know your impressions. Try the #4 on ducks and the #2 on Canada geese.

A few years ago Mickey Johnson and I were Canada goose hunting with a banker friend of ours on the Yellowstone River near Terry, Montana. These were not pressured birds. Mickey and Steve opened up on a decoying Canada with their steel-loaded semi-autos. The bird was really quite close and one could hear the pellets hitting the bird as well as see the outer feathers "ruffle" as pellets passed thru. After six shots the bird was still flying and "making tracks" to escape. I pulled up the Beretta 686 with two rounds of Federal's #BB tungston-polymer and drpped the bird dead with one shot. Later, I dropped two birds dead with two shots and at 35-40 yards. When we picked up the birds we were astounded at the shot pattern evident on their bellies. This was before the introduction of Hevi-Shot, which possesses more retained energy then lead or other non-toxic loads.

Another thing about using hunting loads such as Hevi-Shot is that you don't have to carry a mixed bag of lead and non-toxic shells with you. This is real important if you happen to end up on a wildlife/waterfowl management area that doesn't allow even the possession of lead shells on your person.

dockehr

Dr. Roland E. Kehr, Jr.

Lindy Tackle Company

[ccarlson]

Dockehr,

I figured that was the load you were going to say. I was just in Fleet to pick up some hardware stuff so I also stopped in the sporting goods dept. and picked up a box of the #6 hevi shot. Again though, I also needed some duck loads for my daughters youth 20 guage and all they had were low end, slow shooting federal loads.

So I stopped at reeds and picked up Fiocchi 20 guage 3" #2's that shoot 1500 FPS (compared to a worthless 1300 fps and 1350fps in the federal 20 guage loads) and they were only $8.99 a box. The federals were 12.99 at fleet. She's not quite the dead eye yet to spend $1.80 per shell on hevi shot so we'll keep her on steel for now.

Thanks and good luck hunting this fall.

ccarlson

[gspman]

Anyone know what the pellet count difference is between 1 1/4 oz of lead #6 and 1 1/4 oz of hevi #6. If it is substantial I would highly recommend patterning your shotgun so you know how it patterns. Heck, you should probably pattern it anyway since it's a different load altogether.

As far as a shotgun goes, they all kill birds. Pick the one that fits best and use it. I've got a 12ga sidelock sxs, a 20 boxlock o/u, a 20 cornshucker, and a 12 semiauto. They fit me reasonably well to perfectly and all work good for me, especially when I practice with them before hunting with them. It's far better to focus on one bird and kill it dead instead of worrying about killing multiple birds on the flush. They may not come down dead and then you have the problem of recovering 2 cripples instead of one. Wasting gamebirds is not good.

gspman

[dockehr]

gspman, if you "Google" Hevi-Shot some of the sites cover pellet count and patterns. With equal loads of Hevi-Shot and lead there will be fewer pellets in the Hevi-Shot load. Offsetting this is the much tighter patterns and fewer " flyer" pellets in the Hevi-Shot load which should result in fewer cripples.

As you stated: a) pattern your gun with different loads and chokes. concentrate on the/a bird, take your time, pull the trigger and follow thru: dead bird!

dockehr

Dr. Roland E. Kehr,Jr.

Lindy Tackle Company

[CodyDawg]

I would highly recommend the auto for your hunting and also highly recommend the Beretta family of autos. My whole group uses them and we have seen fantastic durability and operation. My cousin bought a new 391 and decided to shoot it until it jammed....without cleaning it. Well, after a ton of waterfowl, pheasant, sharpie, snow goose and deer hunting, it jammed after 2.5 years. When he went to clean it he was just amazed at the gunk built up in there...and it was still functioning. Now I dont recommend not cleaning your gun, but it was an interesting test. Many times in the dakotas, you get into so many birds and the action is so intense that O/Us are just not as effective....I have hunted with many guys who have them and have gotten quite a few laughs at their expense. If you havent missed a rooster, you havent shot many. Plus, it is nice to have extra shells in case you just cripple one. There is no downside to having extra shells in the gun. As you mention, most of the time in MN only one bird flushes, but in the dakotas, most of the time you get multiple birds up...sometimes they dont all jump at the same time either.

Personally, I am not a Benelli fan at all, but I recognize they make some good guns. In my opinion, buy a 391 and you are set for a very long time. Also, I would second the 12 ga recommendation. As far as nontox goes, I use lead when I can, but try and go with the nontox when I have to. I have had two friends wreck barrels with Hevi-Shot....they didnt know for sure if it was due to the shell or not, but 2 different guns in 1 year was enough for me....although they do a lot...a LOT....of waterfowl hunting. I use Bismuth or one of the Federal loads.

[tcsprtsmn]

I have owned a Benelli Super Montefeltro for 10 years. With the slender fore end and a 26" barrel it is BY FAR THE BEST!