Passport debacle back on

[Wild Thing]

The Bush administration quietly said Thursday they were reversing course (again) and now support the plan to require passports to enter the US from Canada starting Jan. 1 2008 - both US citizens and Canadains. The white house had initially opposed the Homeland Security idea.

This is an assinine plan that will only hurt honest people trying to go fishing or shopping across the border, another infringement on freedoms with little security benefit.

It means every man woman and child will need a $100 passport (plus photos) even if its for a weekend trip. It means no last-minute trips for folks without passports, and means everyone you invite on a trip needs a passport. Of the 20 or so guests I've had at our place in Canada in recent years, only 2 had passports. The rest couldn't come under this plan.

It's going to hurt resort and other business in Canada when people find out how long it takes to get a passport and how much it costs.

It's an unecessary burden that will do nothing to keep bad people out of either country (the 9/11 terrorists all had passports!)

Call or e-mail your congressman and the White House and tell them to stop this stupid idea!!! We still have two years to undo it.

[Hemlock]

I'm with you Wild Thing. Isn't going to do much to tighten (y)our borders.

[hanson]

Geeez...

I've already got my passport and that isn't going to help me get into Canada.

They are good for 10 years. Thats $10 a year to carry a passport. Lets you into every other country in the world also. Just get one now and you'll never have to worry about it again. Used to be able to get passport photos at Mail Boxes Etc, which is now the UPS store. Fill out the paperwork, mail it in, and you won't have to worry about it again for a decade.

It'll definitely clear up confusion as to what is an acceptable form of identification to get into Canada. Can I get in with a birth certificate? Driver's License? What if I don't have a driver's license? Identification card? Does that work? What about my school ID? Does that count?

It just makes sense that everybody has an international form of identification. Doesn't it??

[Hemlock]

I'm sure it seems I'm ridin' the fence, but I gotta agree with you too Hanson. It's a small price to pay to go out and get one. Inconvienience, yes.

Not quite sure what the answer is. I guess I'm not really sure what the question is. Fact of the matter is, 9-11 kicked our borders punkers, since then things have been a little different (mostly the first two months after the incident) but for the most part I get asked more about how the fishing was than my country of birth, etc.

[jerkin'm]

I can tell you don't have any kids Hanson....It is 10 bucks a year but I don't think you pay like that do you? That is 400 bucks up front on top of an already expensive trip..My buddies (kids, wife) won't be chipping in for gas or boat maintenance, etc..I think you see my point...It was not long ago I just had to worry about myself getting from point A to B...It gets tougher when you start multiplying...The border is quite pourous and I think the passport idea is just more of a hassle for us law abiding folks..If they want in,they will get in..It is just a short boat ride away...

[Hemlock]

Dude, make your buddies chip in. It's only fair. 3 guys in a pickup and a boat all weekend say you spend $225 in gas on a weekend. Divide by 3, it aint so bad. It now becomes $75 each. Pretty cheap weekend if you ask me. We can beat the passport thing to death. Your either for them, or against, or in my case, somewhere in the middle. Let's see what happens. If you are against them, now is the time to contact your local government officials and voice it. If your are "for them", go down to your county government office and hand over the money and be done with it for a while.

[Boxcar Wllie]

What is $400 bucks? Right now it will cost $110 to fill my truck. Yeah, the initial payment may be somewhat steep but when your passport is good for 10 years it is well worth it. Now days, your friends shouldn't feel offended if were to ask for some help with gas for your boat. It should be a given. If they don't want to pay, then maybe they aren't as good of friends as you thought?

[jerkin'm]

My post was a little misleading, I meant the wife and kids ARE my buddies now...hence, the expense is all mine...I think it will hit a lot of family trips hard...possibly eliminate a lot..Many could hardly afford gas and bait last year....Mostly people from further south that I talked too...bummer for the Canadian tourism I would have to think..and what is 400 bucks you say? Almost half my cabin rental for next summer....

[MuskyBrian]

Sorry, but I agree that this is ridiculous. All I know now is I get into Canada for free. With a passport, I have to pay 100$, for my opinion, absolutely nothing. I can think of a lot of better things I would rather spend that 100 on, I definetely plan on contacting my representative.

[Wild Thing]

What's $400? What the heck do you do for a living?! Come on man, that's a lot of clothes for the kid or a month's groceries at our house. It's the cost of a whole trip for most guys on a budget. But it's not so much the cost as the inconvenience. I have a passport, too, and have used it a lot. But my brother in law has never been past Iowa. He can't afford a passport and would have no other use for it. I know now he will never come back to my cabin or go on his usual Canadian fishing trip if this happens. That sucks.

What about the old guy in Frot Frances who wants to go to Meanrds in the Falls? A passport? Come on, give me a break. Drivers licenses have worked well for decades. There's never been any confusion that I know of, except on HSOforum chatrooms like this.

Again, if would improve my safety, I wouldn't mind. But this is just more talk bureaucracy when the real problems go unaddressed.

I've already talked to my Congressman about it. He's against it, too!! I'm not giving up beating this back.

[Boxcar Wllie]

The passport is one hundred bucks. How much are you spending on new decoys every year or beverages for your cooler? Yes, it sucks to have to pay to get into a country that in the past has been so easy but post 9/11 everything has changed. You can tell our representitives your opinion all you want but they still won't be able to sway the opinion of the rest of the nation.

25 packs of smokes=$100

6 cases of beer=$100

passport=$100

Being able to catch fish like they are going out of style=

priceless!!!

It is going to become law so pony up the cash.

[JZ]

Evidentially Hanson and Minners don't have any friends and and may enjoy fishing alone. But there will be no last minute trips, or lets run up fishing for the weekend with buddys because they don't have the proper paper work. A family of 5 will not make the trip when there is $500 up front cost for passports and $4 gas. People can't afford it. The only thing the passports do is keep a family from enjoying time together in canada and taking away the chance to go exploring and fishing in canada. And passports will not keep terrorists out of the country. I mean lets get realistic. I can cross border in ND anywhere. Good thing we will all have passports! SAFE!!! The terrorists from 9/11 all had passports. Lots of Lip service comming from the BUSH ADMIN!!!

[jerkin'm]

That's better, I was beginning to think I was the only one that thought it ridiculous to think a passport is the solution...ANYONE can get across the border if they want to with little or no knowledge...a $3 map will get the job done...

[Long Gray Line]

Ok, let me stir the waters some more. Since it appears that most folks don't think the passport is the answer, and assuming that we need to tighten the borders enough to prevent another 9-11, what's your solution? Don't just complain because something to provide security inconveniences you, come up with a better idea then. Driver's licenses aren't adequate, you don't need to be a citizen to get a driver's license. Birth certificates don't work, I've never been asked to show mine when crossing. And I don't buy the "added expense" gripe because somehow those folks can already afford a fishing trip to Canada. While passports don't guarantee perfect security, it's a step in the right direction that we can do now.

[JZ]

Long gray Line, Just remember if you did have to outfit the family with passports it could be as much as 2 car payments. And i guarantee we will not more safe. If i have to get passports for the famliy i will, In europe while passing from contry to county you had to show your passport Now it's the EU and no more passports. Wow!!! It works for canada and the US it must work for europe! Now canada and US are going to require passports. I wonder if europe will switch back. In short we will be regressing. So what is the best way to police the border I guess offer some sort of card besides a D.L. that will account for your citizenship and criminal record. and make it $10 issued by the US and make the system talk with canada. If you don't have this card bring a passport.

[fiskyknut]

I hear you Long Gray line and agree 100% with your rational, a big YES SIR to that one. As for 'ANYONE' crossing 'anywhere in ND? Times have changed bigtime the past few years up here near the border. This I can say for sure as I live quite near to it in NW MN. Area's that are 'the bush' are now covered with hi tech sensors of one kind or another and the amount of border patrol precence on the ground and in the air is way up. You might get accross in these remote areas but you'll probably be chased down before you got very far, 3 dollar map or not. I'd imagine ND has these same type precautions as well.

fiskyknut

[jerkin'm]

R.U. kiddin me? Did you see the story not too long ago about grandma and grandpa smuggling the wacky tabacky across the rainy river? Only because they were (Contact US Regarding This Word) did they get caught....Sled tracks going back and forth directly across the river...I like your false sense of security on the camera thing though...Do they have those camera's between Quetico and the BW? All over Rainy Lake? Superior? etc.........I like the "get chased down" thing too...still laughing....

[hanson]

You guys are right. No kids for me.

[fiskyknut]

Yep read about shortly after it happened in the local papers up here. I did'nt say a thing about any cameras but there are various devices thruout the lost river, out near caribou and other bush areas in the NW part of the state. I see lots of border trucks with thos flir things up on top of them too now. Presence of customs/border agents and uscg on LOTW is way more now than it was back when as well. Have no clues as to what is being done else where though, just whats up around my neck of the woods.

False sense of security, never said felt all that secure, or insecure. I just mentioned what I have observed and have knowledge of, and that is that the border around here is alot less porous then it was just a few years back.

Keep laughing.

[Long Gray Line]

JZ, what you're talking about is a national ID card and I like the idea instead of a passport. With good coordination with the Labatt's drinkers up nort', it could work too. Unfortunately, the ACLU has already vowed to fight the national id as impinging on the right of privacy and discriminatory toward groups of people (I guess maybe the criminals??). Sheesh. fiskyknut, the flir's (forward looking infra-red) along with ground sensors (senses vibrations from people walking/driving) can let one person cover alot of ground along a border. Some of the technology is pretty hush-hush but ya gotta wonder how much of it's being deployed. The INS guys along the Mexican border use some of it, just don't have the man-power or cooperation w/ the Mexican gov't to make it work well.

[Hemlock]

Quote:

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Unfortunately, the ACLU has already vowed to fight the national id as impinging on the right of privacy and discriminatory toward groups of people (I guess maybe the criminals??). .

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I like the national id card/criminal background card. Great idea, infringes on the right of privacy, my arse. What a crock.

Somewhere in the whole mix is a solution. Somewhere inbetween porous pre 9/11 borders, and infringing on people's right to privacy.

Just thinking/typing here. With the added epense to taxpayers for the added staff to protect our borders (huge! $$) wouldn't the $100 passport, or whatever form of identification be cheaper in the long run? These ports of entry are way better staffed now, I've seen it first hand. The new computers, scanners, training, etc. Millions if not billions have been spent to "tighten" up our borders. Still not sure what we're working towards, but I would have to say we are working in the right direction for awareness, and better security of our borders be it forms of identification, technology or staffing.

[subzero]

With the gas prices as they are and now the extra money for a passport that for some may be used once or twice. There will be a cut back in trips to Canada for me.

[Eastwind]

I don't have any problem with the governments of Canada or the USA requiring a passport or a national I.D. card to enter either country. What I have a problem with is, why do they need to charge $100.00 dollars to provide something to us that they are requiring us to have. What a racket. I do not recall being charged for my Social Security card. If there was a charge, it was nominal. Why not charge a nominal fee for the issuance of a passport to adults and provide them for free to dependant children. I am sure that our government subsidizes a few" Less Worthy" programs.

Regarding the ACLU and their concerns of violating the privacy of certain citizens, I can only speak for myself. As I don't have anything to hide,I have no problem with the government wanting to know more about me in these post 9/11 times.

[Wild Thing]

I'm sorry guys, but I'm just not that afraid terrorists are out to get me. I just can't fall for that line. Apparenlty, most americans are much more afraid than I am.

Any loss of freedom for a modicum of safety, or worse, false safety, isn't worth it. (I think that's a bastardization of something Ben Franklin or one of those other radicals said a few years ago when forming some wacko country with a constitution.) I AM afraid of what the government is looking at. But that's just me, a wacko liberal ACLU supporter.

If Interpol and the FBI and Canada customs and Border patrol can already use my Minnesota drivers license to check my criminal background, why do I need a passport? I got a PALS card to buy and possess guns in Candada without using my passport.

Once again, ALL of the 9/11 terrorists had passports and got into our country. If they want to get in, they will. All of the added tax dollars going for cameras on north dakota sunflower fields isn't making us a bit safer (except from canadian farmers and drunk high school kids.) Al it's done is ballon our debt and double the number of federal employees.

That's just my two cents. Not sure we'll solve anything here. But we are supposed to have the world's longest FRIENDLY border. requiring passports ain't very friendly.

I'd rather our government solve the root causes of why kids become terrorists, and get aid to our own citizens in need in New Orleans, and scale back a bit on the guys in jack boots in International Falls.

Now, I'm off to LOW to shoot some ducks and catch some fish!!!

[MuskyBrian]

Agreed, this terrorism paranoia is very annoying. The simple bottom line is there is not much we can do to stop these acts other then keep an open eye out. Patting down 85 year old grandma Johnson at the Intl Falls border crossing because you want to stop terrorism is silly.

However, let me propose a solution. If getting a passport is the big great answer to fight Mr. Bush's war on terror, then how about we lower the price to 50 dollars or less to receive one? I would be much more inclined to not complain about purchasing something that is not in the triple digits.