CLOSE THE SEASON

[Tom Wilson]

It amazes me at how many of you guys can only see doom and gloom. You blame it on the numbers of ducks, you blame it on the farmers, you blame it on the developers, you say we don't have enough rules...

Some of you make some good points about things that might help out our habitat situation. Some of you are also right in saying that there is no doubt that punishing ourselves here in Minnesota by doing anything that is not followed by every other state would be pointless. The simple fact of that matter is that most of us don't, can't or won't hunt where the birds are at. I'm tired of hearing about the "good ole days". The simple fact is that the "good ole days" are now if you're willing to do what it takes to have them. Like it or not guys that means travel. 25 years ago you used to shop at the local hardware store(or any store you can relate to)--then they built the bigger and better store in the next town--then they built strip malls where a person could get more things in one trip--then they built big malls and superstores. If you think about this for a minute you'll understand what I'm saying...

A person can still go to the local store--but there is no doubt that you can go somewhere else more productive for your needs. When you found out that the bigger store gave you more of what you wanted, you started going to that store. When you found more at the even bigger store you started going there. When they built the superstore you moved yet again. It is the same things with Ducks. Why--and you really need to think about this from the view of the duck--would you continue to fly through an area that has 10-25 groups of hunters on every body of water big enough to float a boat. Why would you continue to fly through an area where all of the crops are immediately tilled under the ground leaving scant if any food available to eat. Why would you do anything there when you could be less than 150 miles west and find more food than you could shake a stick at--Farmers in the Dakota's don't till their fields under until spring. There is no more water in the dakota's than we have here, but there is more unmolested water. There are thousand's and thousand's of acres that never see a boat or hunter in SD and ND. These things are the same in Canada. There is also thousands and thousands of acres of unmolested natural grasslands for raising young. Find me an acre of land here in Minnesota that isn't either farmed or developed and I'll show you a piece of land that was too wet, rocky, or weak to farm or develop. I AM NOT PICKING ON THE FARMERS, but there is some validity to this. There have been some great efforts to try and make improvements like CRP and other programs, but they don't help the average hunter. All of that land is still owned privately and that is yet another point. Find someone to let you hunt their private land in this state. Improvements that get made to public places still don't have any effect because of the way we molest these areas. I have a friend whose family enrolled 160 acres into an easement program a couple of years ago. They built ponds all over it, broke all of the tiles and now have almost 80 acres of prime wetland and 80 acres of small woodlots and various crops. There are more pheasants than I have ever seen including the dakotas, and the number of ducks there this spring was staggering. This land is surrounded by miles and miles of vast farms. There are a couple of big lakes within a short drive of this place that get the absolute snot hunted out of them, and I gaurantee you that most of those guys leave that lake cursing and swearing about how there are no ducks....blah, blah, blah... the "good ole days". Well, the simple fact is that the birds that are in the area have a new store.

I have traveled all over this state and I go to SD twice a year to photograph Ducks and Geese and there is no shortage of Ducks...they just aren't coming to that piddly little pothole that you used to shoot some on when you were a kid, and instead of finding a new spot you'd rather fuss and complain that there aren't any ducks. Instead of finding a new secluded spot--you'd rather keep on hunting small lakes where someone elses decoy spread ends where yours begins, where 15 different people are calling at the same flock of mallards flying over the center of the lake. Again--think like a duck--you're flying down to look at a lake and find a SAFE (not comfortable-not food laden--not perfected habitat) a SAFE place to land and rest, and you see not one, not two, not three, but 10-15 seperate decoy spreads. Not one or two ducks letting you know its safe to land, but 15 guys screaming hail calls and rapid fire chuckles to try and convince you from 15 different directions that you need to land here. Not to even mention, and you can argue this all you want to, but the absolute number of morons who think they understand how to call ducks and don't know that they sound like they're blowing a kazoo. I have thousands of photos that I have taken where you would swear that they were taken 20 years ago when "there were ducks around", but they were all taken in the last 8 years. I could take you to places where you could still get a chance to call multiple flocks of 20-50 mallrds at a time and shoot a limit every time out. Do I shoot a limit every time out--nope but you know why--it's because I put more time into scouting and I should spend 10-15 days a year on the skeet range--my lack of work in that department. IT IS NOT THE NUMBER OF DUCKS....IT'S YOU, AND THE AMOUNT OF TIME YOU REALLY PUT INTO IT.

I'm talking about real time, and no matter what you think, if you're not shooting birds, it's because you're not putting in the time. It takes work to scout--it takes work to learn to call ducks and geese--it takes work to build blinds and boat blinds--it takes work to learn to shoot proeperly--and it takes time and work in the field to learn how to be a better hunter. WORK. I fall in to this trap sometimes too. We go out to check our "favorite spot" (mistake number one) and we see some bird activity, so with one fell swoop we base our entire weekend of hunting on that. Then the weekend comes and we discover that 15 other people also did the same thing. We're pi**ed off, but we don't have another plan so we waste our second day as well there. The next weekend we try a different spot and do the same thing. then just like that the season is over and you have very few ducks to show for it, so now you have nothing better to do than sit at the computer and pi** and moan about how there aren't any ducks. You want ducks--get off your complaining butt and find them. And for those of you who constantly pi** and moan about how the Dakotas treat us so badly...maybe that's why they have so much to begin with..they protect it--not molest it! I have hunted SD for the last 7 years in a row--because I did the work. I had a great year last year here in Minnesota--because I did the work. I am contemplating hunting ND this year, but I think I'll pass--not because I don't want too, but before I do I need to do some work there before I hunt there. When you guys learn this you'll be much better hunters.

There is no doubt that I will have offended most of you with this, but I'm ok with that, because most of you will never understand what I'm talking about and that will be you're loss not mine. Good luck with your upcoming duckless season. No matter what you think I hope that you do find them and that you're season is successful.

P.S. John, I started this from you're thread in order to not attack anyone specifically--plus you know how I am, and you were with me on a few of those successful hunts.

[Riverratpete]

Well......ok then.

[GullGuide]

I agree with Tom 100%

[jblabsnduck]

AMEN BROTHER, VERY WELL PUT.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Like I said before, for most of our hunting we travel about 3 hours and never see another hunter.

The day before opener we go out and scout the whole day even the spots we KNOW we will not see another person.

[big drift]

Amen again, ya know come to think of it I don't see that many ducks either driving 55-65 mph on a highway or from a plane, or because my neighbors say's no ducks so therefore it must be.

Get out and look walk around, look in areas ya never have looked before.

big drift

[WALLEYENUTZ]

BINGO!!!!!!

Tom is right on the money!! I may not shoot that many birds, because I don't put the time and effort needed to have successful hunts. BUT I DON'T COMPLAIN EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eric Wettschreck]

Every year I hear the same thing. "No ducks, darn farmers ruining the wetlands, darn housing developments ruining the wetlands, aliens came and took all the ducks, all the ducks went west to chill, blah, blah, blah."

If ya don't want to venture out to where you will get quality hunting.....fine. If you are then shut up and hunt, and let's try to enjoy what we have.

[FOOT]

Lots of good points here and I hope no one is pointing the finger at one group or reason.

The reasons are multiple and the migration has shifted. Some of the areas in MN that had numerous ducks before now hold fewer.

We must all work with what we have to increase the habitat to ensure our children and their children and so on have the opportunity to carry on a tradition of waterfowl hunting.

I for one enjoy the sights, sounds and smells of watefowl hunting. Who can forget the stink of a backwater Miss. swamp. Or the sun as it climbs the early morning day. The sounds of whistling wings in the pre-dawn darkness or the splash of ducks just a few feet away, too early to shoot. The sight of a good lab making an unbelivable retreive. The flame as it blasts out of the end of your gun barrel. The feeling of a good day done as the sun sets and its time to relax and roast your days accomplishments. The gathering of friends in the evening darkness, telling stories and dreaming of tomorrow.

I for one would always give up on filling a limit to be able to enjoy these and other experiences of the hunt.

[Willy]

You're right but you did prove a point about too many hunters and not enough land to hunt.

I do put in the work, but there is only so many places a guy can go and land that you can get permission to hunt.

[mwktrapper]

It's about time. Well said Tom.

[kgpcr4]

Get Real!! i have been duck hunting longer than many of you have been alive and you dont have to ber very smart to figure out that there are no where near as many ducks as there was 20yrs ago. These are the good old days of deer hunting but certainly not duck huntin. I to spend alot of time looking for birds and not just during the season and i will tell you point blank there are no where near as many ducks out there. can you still have some good shoots?? absolutely buy they are far and few inbetween. I remember the bills on Millelacs and Leech that werer thick. now a few here and there. Mallards are way down as well. all you have to do is read the posts from last season here and you will see what i mean or are we all wrong and there are alot of ducks and we just arent seeing them?? Predator controll is one issue as well that we need to look at.

[WALLEYENUTZ]

kg,

You have also brought up some good points, but LET'S GET REAL, "close the season" I think your ignorance is getting in the way of logical thinking. IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!! Hunting is such a minor part of the big picture. Habitat, habitat, habitat in my opinion that is the entire picture no matter where it is, private or public.

[WALLEYENUTZ]

btw, Look at the DNR data on the duck #s 20 years ago!!!

[mwktrapper]

Quote:

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all you have to do is read the posts from last season here and you will see what i mean

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That's because those were the ones bickering about the lack of ducks, just like we saw on this post.

Quote:

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I remember the bills on Millelacs and Leech

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A huge part of this is the fact that fall fishing has increased dramatically. At our duck meeting in Grand Rapids, they even considered closing Winni to fall fishing in order to keep the birds around. Obviously that didn't go far and understandably so. But those birds can't raft with all of these boats flying across the lake. So keep hunting these 2 lakes year after year and you'll probably continue to bicker about the lack of birds. But try and hunt some smaller waters with less boat traffic that have been holding birds and you just might see those big flights from the north once again

As far as numbers go, I don't know what to tell you. We seem to find more and more birds every year as we expand the areas we hunt. Our mallard numbers were up extremely high last fall. We had one field that we hunted for over 3 weeks until the end of season in which we pulled limits of mallards every time along with extras of blacks, widgeon, gadwall and more. There was just an over abundance of puddle ducks. We also hunted another lake that had several thousand divers rafting nearly all of late season. But we wouldn't have known about any of these spots if we didn't give up several days of hunting and put a lot of miles on the tires scouting. Maybe we're just fortunate to have some spots that we do, but I truly believe that if you put a lot of time into scouting, you can be pretty darn successful. Birds shift areas a lot. Every year, we probably only hunt 25% of the spots that we hunted in previous years. Previous successful spots run empty on birds, whereas spots that never held birds before are chalked full.

Might just so happen that these birds are a little smarter than they were 20 years ago? I know I'd sure get smarter after getting kicked in the butt by some little steel pellets. I'd put two and two together after that.

[BLACKJACK]

Lots of good points here! Duck hunting IS hard work, and nowadays that goes beyond getting up at O dark thirty and launching the boat and wading thru muck, you also need to put in the miles to find that good spot.

The duck hunting pressure here in MN is unreal, sitting in my bow stand some mornings it sounds like I'm in downtown Baghdad! When we go out to SoDak pheasant hunting, we see ducks all over, sitting in ponds along the road. If they were here in MN, the next pickup coming down the road would be doing a U-turn and uncasing a shotgun. The hunting pressure is whats driving the ducks to the west.

We still need to work on habitat. We can all drive by a low spot thats now corn and remember hunting ducks and pheasants there. We need to support DU, MWA, PF, etc. but the biggest thing we can do is make sure the farm policies promote and give farmers financial incentives to create and retain the wetlands they have. A farmer is just like anyone else, they need to make a living, so in order to for them to keep that 20 acre wetland, they need to make enough money out of CRP or some other program to offset what they'd make if it was corn. The new farm bill is coming up in 2007, that will have as much affect as anything on our duck populations. If the big agribusiness companies like Cargill have their way, they'd rather see everything in corn and beans so the can sell more fertilizer, chemicals, etc. Let your legislature know that conservation and clean water are important too.

[Mark Christianson]

Bottom line,

There are a ton a great points from many people.

Not sure what the answer is. Not a clue.

All I can do is enjoy what we have available, try to help make a difference to continue the legacy, and most of all have fun doing both.

I have completely enjoyed working on personal projects to better some of the family land habitat, and there is much more to be done. When I am done on our land, I am going to work with our neighboring property owner and do some of the same things.

Get out and make a difference. It ain't gonna change for the better if you don't put in some effort outside of the hunting season.

I see a ton of posts about "work" to get your birds.

Well, "work" in the off-season too.

[GullGuide]

Ok,

Just to debunk the "More ducks 20 years ago" mantra....

Straight from the USFWS HSOforum-

Breeding Populations: in millions

Species/1985/present

Mallard/4.9/7.4

Gadwall/1.3/2.6

Widgeon/2.0/2.5

GWT/1.4/2.5

BWT/3.5/4.5

Shoveler/1.7/3.6

Pintail/2.5/2.6

Redhead/.57/.60

Canvasback/.37/.52

Bluebill/5.0/3.4

Total/23.24/30.22

Yep, a lot more ducks 20 years ago!!

[hobbydog]

Quote:

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Ok,

Just to debunk the "More ducks 20 years ago" mantra....

Straight from the USFWS

HSOforum

-

Breeding Populations: in millions

Species/1985/present

Mallard/4.9/7.4

Gadwall/1.3/2.6

Widgeon/2.0/2.5

GWT/1.4/2.5

BWT/3.5/4.5

Shoveler/1.7/3.6

Pintail/2.5/2.6

Redhead/.57/.60

Canvasback/.37/.52

Bluebill/5.0/3.4

Total/23.24/30.22

Yep, a lot more ducks 20 years ago!!

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I have to laugh at some of these posts. Here are a few better graphics to illistrate that these are the good old days.

An Minnesota has not fared qite as well but it does ok...ducks per hunter has been way up in recent years. The graph does not include last year but that had so much more to do with the unseasonably warm Oct. and Nov. as well as the very wet Canadian provinces that had water standing in grain fields well into November.

For all they naysayers.....how will the habitat improve if the season is closed? Why don't you fish in the fall instead of duck hunting....some of the best fishing during the whole year. Minnesota also has world class grouse hunting in the fall and thousands of of public square miles to hunt....there are other things to do in the fall.

In a really bad year we shoot 500,000 ducks in this state. We shoot more ducks in this state than is shot in either of the dakotas. We have more public water to duck hunt than any other state. There are ducks here in the fall....you may have to change your hunting habits....travel a little and set up a tent....but there are ducks.

Look at the numbers in the Dakotas below.

http://home.sc.rr.com/coker52/harvest_nd.jpg

http://home.sc.rr.com/coker52/harvest_sd.jpg

Also look at the Cental flyway.....yup, these are the good old days.

http://web.ftc-i.net/~tuffye/fly_central.jpg

[riverrat56]

Can someone give this man an award, hobby and Gull just put the whole deal to rest, there are still ducks around, it just comes down to how bad you want to get them, you can hunt the same spots year in and year out, and shoot fewer ducks than you used to because they are conditioned to these spots, or you can find new areas, put the work in to get to new areas, sometimes it might just be busting some cover in the morning on public land to get to a small pot hole that can't be hunted by boat. Take a differnt approach than normal, ducks are there, just not where the used to be.

Have a good'en

[ironman]

Last year wasn't that great...and the point has already been made about the weather being a major factor last year. It seems to me that some hunters are doing what some fisherman do when the numbers are down. Pass the blame. It cant be because I'm doing something wrong or that I dont have the ability to adapt to changes. Why it must be there aren't as many ducks or walleyes or grouse or whatever!!! Things change, animals arn't always predictable...if ever. There are cycles in wildlife numbers and in weather. There will always be good times and there will always be bad times. We cant realistically expect to have the best season ever, year in and year out. You may put in the time..you may put in the money...you may put in the miles and still have a lack luster season. That does not mean that there arn't any ducks...just not your year. With that said we should by all means do everything in our power to improve, as we all know there is always room for improvement. Habitat yes very important, good relations with landowners...bingo, predator control..probably underestimated. Lots of pieces to the puzzle and we all do our best as sportsmen to figure it out. But there are intangibles like the weather. It's not the kill thats important, it's the chase, it's the preparation and the anticipation, it's what brought you to that place that gave you that opportunity. Not to put one more nock on your barrel and prove you can kill but to etch that story into your memory for you and others to appreciate for years to come.

[kgpcr4]

Guys some outstanding points by all. one thing we all share is the insanity of Duck hunting. Get up way early, head out into the cold and dark and wait over a cup of coffee for it to get light out, the sounds of wings in the dark and the anticipation of shooting time. As it starts to get light the sight of another day. all the while shivering and hoping the wind does not change and make your setup useless. Then its shooting time and you see ducks but no takers for your spread. some look but they dont fall for it. then a hen mallards bites and bites hard and sets into the blocks. just as her feet hit the watter a bang breaks out and she is screwed, but not today as the bang was just you saying it instead of pulling the trigger. you know you have not spared one bird but next years flock of young ones as well. The wind has changed and nothing more takes to your spread, you get out and pick up the decoys with numb fingers and hands and can hardly get a grip on the pull rope for the motor and you are glad you have neoprene gloves. you motor back to the landing empty handed. you have spent alot of money on shells stamps guns decoys gas and all the other expenses and now you have nothing to show for it. nothing but a memory that will last forever. this insanaty is known only to some of us who love duck hunting. you feel proud of yourself on the way home for letting the hen go and you should. another great day that i and many of you would not spend any other way. yeah its crazy when you look at it and you have to be crazy or just plain nuts to enjoy it but i am one of those nuts and many of you are as well. Many of you have taken exception to my opinion and thats outstanding. you have all made some great points and i respect your view. i know we cant close the season as that would choke the money needed to help our sport. i am just willing to do what it takes to help. lets all make a point of not shooting many or any hens this year. you will be amazed at how good it makes you feel to pass on a hen. Also join me in buying an extra duck stamp and lets see if we can bring back the birds. Also thanks to the guys and gals who went to the capital. we can all do something to help.

[Tom Wilson]

Many of you have taken exception to my opinion and thats outstanding. you have all made some great points and I respect your view.

we can all do something to help.

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kgpcr4,

I would just like to say that this might be the coolest thing I've seen on this site in quite a while. I just want to tell you how much I appreciate the character and professionalism (for the lack of a better word) that it took for you to respond this way to the other opinions that were expressed in this post. Most of the time, we (most people) just get mad because someone disagreed with us. My hat's off to you sir.

The second point I would like to make is in one of your last sentences--We can all do something besides sit around and complain. Change begins with self. Everything we do no matter how small, just like not shooting hens, pays off in the long run. It would be nice if every day in the field could be like those days that we have all had at least once...Those days when the ducks were everywhere, and you could have shot dragonflies at 30 yards, and even your buddy hit what he was aiming at..., but those days don't happen all of the time. Those days are what we live for though, and they are the source for our obsession. There are so many things that each and every one of us could do in order to make our seasons more productive, but it starts within ourselves, and if we do nothing--then we should expect nothing in return. The last point I'd like to make, and I think you addressed this also in your post is this...if it was just about killing something and eating it--we'd buy it at the store. Duck hunting is not an obsession for me because of the kill (and I assume most of you also) It's about the hunt, and every thing the hunt entails. I hope we see lot's of duck's year guys, but I hope more than anything that we have a good HUNTING season.

[Sartell Angler]

KGPCR4:

very good post! I know a lot of guys (especially on another forum that will remain nameless) who would scoff at your no-hen recommendation and would instead say that they would feel better shooting the hen...but I am a follower of your same school of thought and therefore avoid shooting hens as much as possible. Really like how you were able to put a typical hunt into words...makes me wish it was October!

SA/wdw

[jblabsnduck]

EVERYONE JOIN IN - GROUP HUGE

[jiggin' fool]

I believe that kgpcr4 comment on the number of ducks not being any where near what they once where, are right on, but not accurate when comparing total population. What he meant, I am guessing, is that we are NOT seeing the birds here that we used to. (I am an OLD-FART myself, and remember starting my duck-hunting career in the mid-60's). Now, having indicated that, we need to look at WHY I was seeing more birds, LOTS more, as a kid. We need to look at the water!!!! In the 60's and most of the 70's, the Dakota's where DRY!!!!! They had nowhere near the water out there that they now have. (Look at the size of Devil's Lake 20-years ago, compared to now. Devil's is a basin lake, and it has no "inlets" to influence it. It is totally dependent on water that runs into the drain basin). Sooooooo, even though we had a continental population much lower than we do now.., we had a TON of birds migrating through here, as we had the water!!!

Now we look at the other reasoning being discussed here. Pressure and habitat.

The vast majority of the ducks raised in the continental U.S. are on the prairie pot-hole region, of which we are on the extreme Eastern edge. So why "migrate" East, when you are heading south.., only to find far worse habitat then in the Dakota's.., and far more pressure????? When the birds drift down out of the Canandian providences of Saskatchewan and Alberta, (the 2 provinces of most significant duck production), they are traveling south. They hit the Dakota's, and have no need to leave. They have all the food and water they could ask for.., much of it unmolested.., and so we see very little in the way of a migration. How many of you remember a couple years back, when we had a major cold-front push through, and there were so many birds in the air at one time, they literally COVERED the radar screens of major airports. This IS NOT an urban legend. This was even reported on all of the major news TV syndications. Some of them even showed what the radar screens looked like!!!!!!!!!

Now.., are you still in a state of disbelief????? Even when a phenomenon such as that actually happened?????

Gentlemen, (and ladies, if you are reading).., we have ducks. Even with a lower count this year.., WE HAVE DUCKS!!!! Lots and lots of ducks. They just are NOT here.

Yes, we haven't been "smart" on protecting our habitat.., but the bottom line is that the primary migration route is in such a PRIME state, concerning both food/cover.., and lack of hunting pressure.., that the ducks have no NEED to travel to MN!!!!!!!

In conclusion.., irregardless of which side of this argument you are on.., you are BOTH right!!!!!!!

Our "day" will come again, but it will be an OMEN of bad for the future of our waterfowl.., because when the birds return to MN.., that will indicate BAD water conditions on the prairies..., which is bad news for the waterfowl returning to nest.

It will happen. Drought will return to the prairies. And when that happens, MN, with all it's lakes and rivers, will once again fill with birds. But at the same time, our future will be bleak.

So, in the meantime...., let the water flourish on the prairies of the Dakota's. In fact, may it flourish out there for ever.

We will in the meantime, have to protect what habitat we have remaining, and we will have to hunt smarter than before. But I for one, will forever hope the water on the prairie stays as it is. I can make that sacrifice for the birds.

And closing the season will do NOTHING to help these birds.