The 2005 Detroit Tigers will.............

[buzzsaw]

In a sentence, Let down Backherup AGAIN!

[Eric Wettschreck]

Get their butts whooped??? Finish in the divisional cellar??? Lead the AL in errors??? All of the above???

[buzzsaw]

Thats my guy Boilerguy!! Heres the latest from ESPN on their star Pudge:

DETROIT: C Ivan Rodriguez reported to camp 22 pounds lighter than last spring, and attributed his weight loss to the Atkins diet and Barry Bonds stealing away his personal chef, Anatole. ...

[Eric Wettschreck]

Maybe they'll all get injured in spring training and save their fans another year of heartbreak, grief, indigestion, gas, and a bad case of the nasty runs.

[Windy City Walleye Hunter]

Finish behind the Twinkies....Who will finish behind my beloved Pale Hose!

YOU CAN PUT IT ON THE BOARD....YES!!!

[BackHerUp]

Geez..."Size of File: 164.98 KB (168938 bytes)"...could you be more annoying?...I think not!

...

(just teasin' ya "Tiger"...hey, this could be a season where the Twins, Timberwolves and Vikings all suck at once!)

You still owe me a case of beer...

[buzzsaw]

I know I owe you a case of beer, it's not like I live in Monticello where I can just drop it off. I also had a complex about the size of the picture I posted of my wife and kid in the Stanley Cup so I deleted it.

As far as all three Minnesota teams sucking at once... it's happened before and will again.... I still don't believe the Tigers or Lions will be better than either Minnesota team.... and for the Pale hose lover... the White Sox and Bears are both underachievers... although the Sox have a decent chance this year of keeping it close.

[BackHerUp]

Quote:

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I know I owe you a case of beer, it's not like I live in Monticello where I can just drop it off...

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Send me a gift card!

Quote:

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...I also had a complex about the size of the picture I posted...

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I'm sure the size of the photo is not the only thing you have a complex about!

...Despite your lack of foresight, I have vacated a place in your mind and I am honored that you thought of me and created this thread. Now, I don't have to...

Just as you say, our favorite teams have their ups and downs...yet, we continue to cheer for them and look forward to each new season and what it may bring. My Detroit teams have brought joy, pride and despair with the return to prowess with the Detroit Red Wings (of the 90's until present, with 3 recent Stanley Cups) and the NBA Champion Detroit Pistons.

The Tigers and Lions, although through slow re-building have struggled mostly because of ownership. The Tigers are on a steady rise due to Mike Illitch's (Red Wings owner and new Tigers owner) investing into the organization, first by building them a brand new stadium and by adding to the team a manager (Allan Trammell) with a rich history of winning and personal accomplishment and now by way of trades and free agents, players (Dmitri Young, Ugueth Urbina, Jason Johnson, Troy Percival, Kyle Farnsworth, "Pudge" Rodriguez, Carlos Guillen, Carlos Pena, Alex Sanchez, Magglio Ordonez, etc.) that will instill a winning attitude...something that's been missing in their locker room.

The Lions too, are on the rise. For the same reasons listed above...the ownership has decided to invest to win, rather than just sit back and reap the gate receipts of devoted fans who turn out in droves to watch their beloved Lions lose, year after recent year because of poor front office decisions, based purely upon financial impact to their personal pocketbooks.

All Detroit fans wanted, in recent years, was for the Ford Family to sell the team to someone who would spend the money to help them win again. I personally think, once Bill Ford, Jr. took over most of the operational decisions, the Lions took a step in the right direction. First he hired Matt Millen in 2001 (a decision that seems to be paying off despite my initial reservations). Millen's decision to hire Mariucci in 2003 is beginning to pay off as well. Matt Millen has built himself quite a reputation around the league through the last 3 drafts and his decision to trade up (for Kevin Jones) in last years draft proved to be a shrewd move and garnered the respect of many experienced NFL GM's. The foundation is being established through solid recent drafts and good free agent acquisitions. The upcoming free agent signings and draft will be just as important, but the Lions are on the verge of becoming an NFL powerhouse according to many NFL execs...if they can somehow determine the QB position. Is Harrington gonna be the answer? This season is his contract year. It's "make or break" for him according to Mariucci. I can only hope and pray they can pull it off this upcoming football season...since Detroit host's the Super Bowl, they're gonna make a run for it.

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P.S:

I don't know if I can engage you "buzzsaw", in verbal combat this year (as I did last year, much to the entertainment of others) due to lack of interest and mostly because of my job. However, contingent upon volatility and interest...you may "awaken the beast" and either suffer a hail of return fire or even a surprise, pre-emptive strike!

Have a nice weekend (what's left of it)...

[buzzsaw]

I enjoy the banter back and forth with you so it should be a fun season.

Remember this picture??

[BackHerUp]

The Tigers improved by 29 wins last season, tops in baseball, but also tied Cleveland for the league lead with 28 blown saves...

That glaring weakness was addressed, with the Tigers adding free agent closer Troy Percival, acquiring hard-throwing right-hander Kyle Farnsworth and keeping Ugueth Urbina.

With those three and the offensive addition of Magglio Ordonez, Detroit will be less likely to squander as many leads this time around. If the Tigers had managed to convert just half of those blown saves last season, they would have had a winning season and a second-place finish. Had they been able to save 75 percent of those chances, they would have notched 93 wins, or one more than the AL Central Division-winning Minnesota Twins finished with last year.

If, of course, is an awfully big word in baseball...

[buzzsaw]

How many of the Motor city kitties will there be playing in that game???

Nice field, wish we had "real" baseball being played in this state!

[Pete Riola]

The Tigers will play in a better stadium that the Twins but the Twins will win their 4th straight AL Central! Wins Twins, Go Gophers!

[buzzsaw]

Thats right brotha Pete, speak the truth for our buddy from Detroit.

Did I mention that Detroit was so good last year that they only finished 20 games BEHIND the Twins!!

CENTRAL W L PCT GB

Minnesota 92 70 .568

Chicago 83 79 .512 9.0

Cleveland 80 82 .494 12.0

Detroit 72 90 .444 20.0

Kansas City 58 104 .358 34.0

DETROIT TIGERS

What must go right: Some of the newest acquisitions played better than expected last year, helping the Tigers make a significant improvement. Shortstop Carlos Guillen was talked about as one of the league's primary impact players, Ivan Rodriguez gave the Tigers a jolt and Nate Robertson emerged to win 12 games. The Tigers have to get similar contributions this year, and have other newcomers -- Magglio Ordonez, Troy Percival -- make an impact.

What could go wrong: Jeremy Bonderman pitched strongly down the stretch, Mike Maroth cut his ERA by almost a run and a half, and Jason Johnson had some decent moments. If these guys aren't more consistent, the Tigers have no shot at staying in the division's lead pack.

The X-Factor: Ordonez was one of the game's great right-handed hitters before he hurt his knee last year, and if he rebounds, he'll be an RBI machine. But if he never is fully healthy again , it's possible that his contract -- $75 million for five years, maybe another $30 million -- could haunt this mid-market team for many, many years . The Tigers are not in a position to afford a $15 million DH.

Numerically speaking: Bonderman had a 2.93 ERA in his last 10 starts of last season, allowing just 53 hits and striking out 67 in 67.2 innings.

[Down to Earth]

Buzzsaw,

I think I remember seeing that Detroit had a clause in the Magglio's contract in regards to his injury and possible inability to return. Still the Tigers will probably be back behind the Twins yet again.

[buzzsaw]

In the football thread I see Back her up made a statement that wasn't so great about Johan Santana.... This is what an ESPN journalist thinks of him!

Updated: Mar. 15, 2005

Summit could be just the start for Santana

By Jayson Stark, ESPN.com

Jayson Stark Archive

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. – To us, it's just a trophy. To Johan Santana, it's more. More, in fact, than we can even comprehend.To us, it's just another Cy Young award. Something to vote on. Something to argue about on our favorite bar stools.To Johan Santana, however, winning the American League Cy Young last season was an event that changed his life, changed his team, changed his country and changed the mountain town in Venezuela that had never produced a professional baseball player before him.We are talking about an award that inspired parades, medals and dinner with the president (of Venezuela, that is). So, clearly, we are talking about something that meant a whole lot more in Johan Santana's homeland than an excuse to call a talk show."My country is a real baseball country," said the Twins' first Cy Young winner since Frank Viola. "You know, people there are looking at you as a hero, as an idol. What I'm doing is just having fun, just doing what I do. But knowing [what his people think of him], it gives me more energy to go out and perform. Playing baseball is something that makes me feel good. But it's something that makes them feel good, too."Yes, this is the ultimate feel-good story, all right – for everyone but the hitters.For the hitters, facing Johan Santana last year made them feel about as good as a House subpoena.They hit .192 against him – which is 75 points worse than they hit against Tim Hudson. Their slugging percentage was an absurd .315 – more than 150 points worse than they slugged against Bartolo Colon."It's fun just to hear the hitters when they get up there," said Twins catcher Matt LeCroy, "because they don't want to hit off him. You hear guys dig in, saying, 'Well, here's an 0-for-3.' "Actually, 0 for three months was more like it – because, after the All-Star break last season, Johan Santana didn't lose . Not once: Fifteen starts, 13-0, a Gibson-esque 1.21 ERA, only 55 hits in 104-1/3 innings, just 14 earned runs allowed in 15 trips to the mound . He was the first pitcher in history to win that many games after an All-Star break without losing . He allowed three earned runs or fewer in his last 22 straight starts (24 if you count the playoffs). He gave up one run or none in his last eight starts (10 if you count the playoffs).And by the time he was through, Santana had spun off one of those seasons that isn't just once in a lifetime. For most of the human race, they're no times in a lifetime. At age 25, in his first full season as a starting pitcher, he finished the year 20-6, with off-the-chart numbers all over his stat sheet. We can put it in perspective this way:

Only two other pitchers in their 20s have ever had a 20-win season in which they struck out more than 10 hitters per nine innings, gave up fewer than seven hits per nine innings and allowed less than a baserunner an inning.One was Sandy Koufax in 1965. The other was Pedro Martinez in 1999. That's the entire club. But not even those two matched Santana's numbers in all those categories. Whew."People keep asking, 'Have you ever seen anything like that?'" Twins pitching coach Rick Anderson says, laughing. "And I say, 'Well, I might have seen it in high school. But in the major leagues? I don't think so.'"When Santana kicked off that second-half rampage, the Twins actually trailed Chicago by a half-game in the AL Central standings. They wound up winning the division by nine games. So their ace truly changed everything."It was like the Yankees when they had [Roger] Clemens or like Boston when they had Pedro," LeCroy said. "He was that kind of pitcher for us. When he pitched, when it was his day, you knew you were going to win."So it seems almost surreal now that a year ago at this time, Santana was coming off elbow surgery, couldn't convince himself to cut loose and was about to stagger to a 5.50 ERA in his first 12 starts. But once he realized the pain was gone, a phenomenon was born.By September, he had Venezuelan TV crews shadowing him all day, every day. And his Metrodome starts were turning into a veritable Great Lakes Mardi Gras."I'd see all the people stand and clap and give me a standing ovation – and I was just going out to warm up," Santana said. "That was an unbelievable thing. ..."I remember there was a lady who came up to me one day, and she was crying the whole time. I was, like, 'Wow. I didn't know this was that big.'"But however large this was in Minnesota, it was a thousand times more humongous in a land that had never had its own Cy Young before."It was on TV every day," Santana said, "people talking about me. Every game I pitched was on national TV. It's unbelievable to know how many people are following everything you do. Every time I talked to my dad on the phone, he was crying. He was telling me, 'You're the greatest. Just keep doing what you're doing.'"So being the good son he is, Santana kept doing what he was doing – until there were no more games left to do it in. Then he headed home to Tovar, a remote town of 40,000 residents located in the heart of the Andes.When he'd left the previous winter, he was a ballplayer. When he returned, he discovered he was a king.The day he won his Cy Young award, the townspeople of Tovar staged a parade in his honor, a parade that still reddens Santana's eyes."I've never seen anything like it," he said. "I was fighting [tears] the whole time. After the parade, we went into a church [to address the crowd], and I thought they were going to take the whole thing down, so many people wanted to get in. I almost cried."historythis offseason.After that, he was summoned to the capital in Venezuela, for a ceremony and dinner with president Hugo Chavez."He's a great baseball fan," Santana said of el presidente. "I was surprised by all the things he was telling me about baseball, about guys from a long time ago, guys he followed. It was good to know you've got that kind of support. It was good to know the president of your country is paying attention to what you do."Even the president no doubt knew there had never been a Venezuelan Cy Young award winner – let alone a unanimous Cy Young award winner. So there is no telling how many kids from his country have decided, in these past few months, that their dream is now to grow up to become Johan Santana instead of Andres Galarraga or Bobby Abreu or Omar Vizquel.Sixteen different Venezuelans got 100 hits in the big leagues last season. But before Santana came along, only two Venezuelan left-handers – Wilson Alvarez and Omar Daal – had ever won 10 games in a season.So imagine the impact of having one of their own win a Cy Young. What Michael Jordan inspired on the playgrounds of America, Johan Santana is inspiring, even as we speak, on the ball fields of Venezuela."It's an honor to be the first one to win that award," Santana said. "Hopefully, I'll be the first of many. I think that changed the way people think. Now they know that not only can we play this game, but we can pitch, too. It's good to open up those doors."It may be years before Santana, or the rest of us, will understand the ripple effects of what he has done. But it took a trip one day – to the top of the Andes – for Santana himself to understand how many lives he had touched.After weeks of attention, parades, interviews and never-ending tumult, Santana journeyed with his brother to the peak of Mount Avila, looking for peace 7,000 feet above sea level. When he arrived, he looked out at the Caribbean and said, "This is heaven. Nobody knows you up here."But not long afterward, he saw a farmer walking along a mountain stream, peering intently into the water. When Santana asked the man what he was doing, he could see the light bulb go on in the man's eyes."He looked at me and said, 'I know you,'" Santana recalled. "I said, 'No, this is my first time here. You don't know me.' He said, 'I saw you on TV. I heard all the stories about you, about your dad crying. You're Johan Santana.'"The man told him, "My friends are never going to believe me. Can you sign something?"Santana smiled. He walked back to his car and found a copy of the front page of a newspaper with his photo on it. He returned and said, "I'm going to give you a picture, so they believe you."So it was there, on that snowy peak, that Johan Santana began to fully comprehend that he had reached the top of the mountain, literally and figuratively. Now he finds himself in spring training, beginning The Year After, contemplating how to stay there."He won't change," Anderson said. "The last three months of last season – all the publicity he got, a TV crew from Venezuela following him around – that didn't change him. ... I see the same kid we got five years ago in the Rule 5 draft, just running around the field, happy to be out there."Santana now owns the largest contract in Twins history – four years, $40 million. His first order of business is using some of it to build new ball fields in his hometown – and in the nearby town of Santa Cruz, which was nearly obliterated by massive flooding in December.But he is still a baseball player. And that means trying to recapture the magic, to do again what he has done just once – be the best pitcher in baseball."To expect him to go undefeated again, to keep doing all those things every time out – obviously, that's exceptionally difficult to do," says his manager, Ron Gardenhire. "But he's one guy who could do it. He has the pitches to be a dominating starter and to do it for a long time."If the rest of his career resembles what last year looked like, "then you've got Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Pedro Martinez, guys like that," Gardenhire said. "The difference is that those guys have put together careers where they've done it a long time. He's done it one year. But Johan's got the talent to do that, if he stays healthy." And if that's what he does, if this is what he is, then who knows where this saga is going? There will surely be more trophies, more parades, more cheers, more tears. And Johan Santana might be doing more than merely dining with his president."If I ran, I'm pretty sure I'd get some votes," he laughs.Suddenly, the perfect irony strikes him."You know, it's funny," he said. "Last September in Minnesota, they were giving out buttons that said, 'Santana for President.' But they were crossing out 'President' and writing 'Cy Young.'"He is asked if he ever gave Hugo Chavez one of those buttons."I think he's happy I got Cy Young," quips Johan Santana, "and not president."

[BackHerUp]

Geez...and I thought I was long winded! You take the cake.

When I link or "cut and paste" articles, I usually delete dialogue that's irrelevent and monotonous to make my point, out of respect for you guys (believe it or not!)...and to keep your attention on the point I'm making, but I see you don't believe in proofreading. I saw the story you had posted and couldn't get past the first paragraph when I noticed it rambled on and on and on....

This much I did take in. You misunderstood me (or I didn't make myself clear), I do believe that Johan Santana is a quality pitcher, for sure. I also acknowledge he had a commendable season that deserved the Cy Young Trophy. What I meant to say, is that due to circumstances presented this offseason in the way of key players (the left side of the infield!) lost to free agency (i.e; Koskie and Guzman) and the Twins unwillingness to replace those departures, could affect the way the pitchers will absorb that impact. Especially if the players that assume those two positions do not play up to the abilities of Koskie and Guzman...at the very least. With that said, Santana will have a harder time duplicating last years' performance...

----------------------------------------

Anyway, I'm surprised no one mentioned the Tigers releasing CF-Alex Sanchez as reported on ESPN...he showed up to camp dropping fly balls and has committed 3 errors already so they cut him...

CF-Alex Sanchez released...

...and the Tigers are extremely high on prospect Nook Logan to take over the CF job soon...

("...defensively, the Tigers believe Logan is an upgrade over Sanchez. Beyond being one of the fastest players in the Majors, he showed strong jumps and direct routes on line drives during his two stints in Detroit last year. His offense is more of a question, but his performance so far this spring has encouraged club officials. If he doesn't start, he could end up being a late-inning defensive replacement.

"He has worked very hard," Dombrowski said. "He's stronger, even though he may not look it. (Coaches) feel his left-handed swing is much improved. He's grasping what they're talking about. He's bunting 150 balls a day. He should be able to bunt his way to a respectable average, he can run so well. If he continues along that line, he might be one of these guys that could just keep getting better and better. We all know his tools are phenomenal."

Logan seemed to grasp the opportunity presented to him. "This is the first time I've been in this situation," he said. "I just want to go about my business. I'm doing the same thing every day, come in and play hard. We still have three weeks.")

...but it looks like the CF job may go to Craig Monroe...

[buzzsaw]

Quote:

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With that said, Santana will have a harder time duplicating last years' performance...

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All I can say to that statement is...... DUHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Way to go out on a limb! I don't think you'll see that type of season again for a long time to come! Well maybe Jeremy Bonderman could approach those numbers this year, but nobody else has a chance!

[BackHerUp]

Quote:

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Quote:

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With that said, Santana will have a harder time duplicating last years' performance...

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All I can say to that statement is...... DUHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Way to go out on a limb! I don't think you'll see that type of season again for a long time to come! Well maybe Jeremy Bonderman could approach those numbers this year, but nobody else has a chance!

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Ok...so you too, think that last year was an aberration (ab-er*ra'tionn. 1, departure from a normal course. 2, deviation from truth or moral rectitude...), that's basically all I was getting at...

You joke about Bonderman (and the rest of my Detroit teams for that matter!)...but truth be told, a lot is expected from this 22 year old, with the stuff he possesses and to not be phased by the horrible season the entire team had in 2003...he showed a lot of character and resilience to go along with a strong arm and attention to staying healthy.

He and Mike Maroth could develop into quite a 1-2 punch. For the longest time the Tigers farm system was depleted due to the previous GM trading away prospects for older players at the end of their careers. It has taken awhile to re-develop strength in the minors but they are starting to pop.

Tigers Prospects...

Pitchers to watch are:

Franklyn German is known for his unhittable splitter and high-90s fastball, posted a 1-0 record, 1.20 ERA (15.0IP/2ER) and nine saves over a 14-outing stretch May 15-June 19, after being recalled to Detroit on June 20...struck out 16 and walked six over that stretch,

Wilfredo Ledezma was named the Tigers Minor League "Pitcher of the Year" and went 3-2 with a 3.92 ERA (41.1IP/18ER) in eight starts with the Tigers after joining the club on July 15 last year,

Colby Lewis (prospect acquired from Texas) Although technically no longer a rookie, in '03 Colby finished second on the Rangers staff in wins (10), starts (26) and innings (127), and ranked fourth in strikeouts (88)...led all American League rookies in wins and had the second-highest winning percentage (.526), going 6-2 in his final 9 starts of the season...opened the year in the Rangers rotation and was 3-0, 4.43 in his first 4 starts through April 20,

Justin Verlander , Detroit's first-round pick last year (No. 2 overall) is a clear sign that things are moving in the right direction. Verlander is a potential front-line starter to add to a corps of good pitching prospects...

...so, there's a bright Tigers future to go with that beautiful stadium in downtown Detroit.

[MrSenarighi]

I have been reading these posts for a long time, and first of all I have to say I admire your dedication to your teams, Backherup. Sometimes we all get a little caught up in the "potential" of what could happen if everything falls into place for our prospective teams, including myself. I can understand you being excited for the Tigers and Lions because they are on the up and up. You do make quite a few good points, and some not so good. But if you really, honestly, believe they will win the American League Central & the NFC North, I would be forced to think of you mentally unstable. If you would like to develop some kind of wager, be it friendly or not, to back up these statements, I would gladly take you up on it. If not, your conviction I suppose could be only as deep as your mouth.

[buzzsaw]

Good breakdown of your farm system! I agree you are dedicated to your teams fo shizzle! Whats your prediction Backherup for place of finish within the division for all the teams? Here are mine.

1. MN

2. Cleveland

3. Chicago

4. Detroit

5. KC (barely behind detroit)

[BackHerUp]

The Tigers play the Twins today...the Tigers divide into split squads and split wakeup times on Sunday, with a home game against the Cardinals and a road trip to Fort Myers to face the Twins. Both games start at 1:05 p.m. ET.

(Jason Johnson will start against the Cardinals, followed by Fernando Rodney, Kyle Farnsworth, Troy Percival, Steve Colyer and Jamie Walker. Guillen and Infante are expected to start at short and second, respectively, in that game. Chris Carpenter will start for the Cardinals, who are expected to bat former pitcher Rick Ankiel at DH.)

Wilfredo Ledezma will try to bounce back from his spring struggles with his Sunday start against Minnesota. He'll give way to Franklyn German, Mike James, Craig Dingman, John Ennis, Doug Creek and Chris Spurling. Brad Radke is the scheduled starter for the Twins.

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Whats your prediction Backherup for place of finish within the division for all the teams?

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1. Detroit

2. Cleveland

3. Minnesota

4. Kansas City

5. Chicago

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and to "DuluthBoy" (MrSenarighi):

Quote:

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...but if you really, honestly, believe they will win the American League Central & the NFC North, I would be forced to think of you mentally unstable

(consider me crazy, since I constantly engage all you guys all by myself!!

)

. If you would like to develop some kind of wager, be it friendly or not, to back up these statements, I would gladly take you up on it. If not, your conviction I suppose could be only as deep as your mouth.

(Oooh...tough talk coming from a guy from a "tough-guy town" like Duluth!

)

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Hey..."Andy", I stand by my teams. It ("my conviction") is really not as far fetched as you may like to think...since the Vikings and Twins (on the downslides) will both struggle the next few season's...but that's my opinion (and wish) anyway. You don't know, I don't know...so who's to say, other than the teams themselves, that's why they play the games. I just root for my hometown teams...Name your bet, DuluthBoy! See ya at the other end of both seasons!

[MrSenarighi]

Give me some time and I will think of an appropriate wager. P.S. Did you hear about the Twins/Detroit game yet?

[BackHerUp]

As you probably know by now...your Twins beat my Tiger "B" squad, 7-5.

Twins beat Tigers, 7-5

There was only one projected starter in the split-squad game versus the Twins (Brandon Inge-3B). But I'm sure you rejoice in the victory nonetheless. All the Tiger starters were playing in the other game (against the Cardinals) in which the Tigers won, 8-4. Tigers beat Cardinals, 8-4

Hey Andy, (my name is Andy too!)...make sure the bet is something reasonable, so that we can make good on it!!

[buzzsaw]

WOW!!! I didn't think anybody took spring training that seriously!! Boy was I wrong! If I would have had to guess somebody who did take it seriously I guess I would have said Backherup!!

Get used to losing to the Twins!

[james_walleye]

Im trying too find any logical reason that you think the vikings will struggle the next couple years?? That one totally boggles my mind. That has too be 100% pure hope because there is nothing there too base any thoughts on.