INFO WANTED

[rappin jack]

What do you think about a three point min. on one side for a legal buck.I feel that this would help us get bigger bucks around here?????

[norm]

yeah that would be great. we've been trying to get our neighbors to do that for a couple years now but they say it wont work because there is only small bucks around. well thats because small ones get shot before they can grow come on people, get a clue

[rappin jack]

People need to shoot more does and let the little bucks live one more year!

[Mark Christianson]

We have neighbors with the same thoughts.

I told them last year we were passin on bucks under 8 pts, and I just got a blank look.
Well, they ended up shooting a small buck right near my stand. I watched them drag it out with my binoculars.

We will never sell everyone on the idea. Crud.

[snowgoose]

This could get good again.
I just started letting the smaller bucks go 2 years ago. I have been seeing the results. Last year I passed on 7 bucks here in Minnesota. Spikes to small 8 pointer. I ended up with a doe. This may be my year for a good one here.
Practice what you preach
Snowgoose

[Gissert]

Sometimes it is pretty tough to let that small buck walk if you hunt a short two day season like 4A.

Given the choice, I'll take a nice doe over a small buck any day.

I just picked up a muzzleloader to extend my season, so I will probably be fussier this year. I really like that all season tag. I can now hunt both zone 4 seasons as well as the muzzleloader.

[EXTREME]

Would love to see it implemented for my personal reasons, but it never will. If the DNR wants to grow big bucks; they will limit the amount of buck tags available to a lottery system; like Montana. Of course I would hate not being able to buck hunt every year. That would suck. I personally have a minimum standard that I imposed on myself, but like everyone else stated; the neighbors will never do it. Oh well; all deer harvested are trophies in the eye of the beholder!

[eyesontonka]

Scooter

Do you know if Wis has any drop off your deer to the needy??..Iowa started doing that...great idea..

Still think a 4 point on 1 side rather then 3..how many trophy 6 pointers do ya see..

As far as people saying you only have a short season..well when you think about it..if more people would pass on small bucks for a couple years and not tag a deer..wooohooo for the next generation..once we got to that stage everyone would have a great chance to shoot big bucks..it only takes 2 years..so remember that..

if you like deer meat that much ask to be put on a list for salvage deer meat..you would probly get more meat then you wanted..i for 1 would give someone half my deer meat if they passed on a small buck and ended up short changed..

[rappin jack]

Eyes i agree there are a few big 6's around but 4 on a side would be great too! Even if you have to take a small (YARD DOG ) doe or two its still meat. It would be owesome sitting on stand and watching a field full of big deer instead of a couple of punks struting around.

[buckkiller183]

finally someone understands that we need to do that we started that 5 years ago on our land and have got 2 bucks over 150 class and many others between 8 and 12. we need to press this issue to the dnr so we can shoot more like that in the coming years.

[Swamp Scooter]

WI this year in my area is going earn-a-buck. What a deal. Cannot get the people in that area to shoot does even when they give you tags.

So this year we have to shot and register a doe to get a buck sticker. If you shoot the double you have to present them together to register.

We do get to have a 4 day antlerless only hunt th - sun over Halloween. That will be the best time to get ahead and get the sticker. Imagine opening day and seeig the biggest wall hanger ot there and not having a tag for it!!!

People should pass on it but some won't. I see this as a problem too. I heard people talking about party hunting and registering the same doe to get other people their tags. This does nobody any good.

Another good thing to try but enforcement will be tough.

[eyecrosser2000]

I'm not down on managing for a "quality" experience. But...here's something I've been thinking about for awhile--it goes for bucks/QMD and also for walleyes/slot lakes. Right now bucks measuring 150-200 Boone & Crocket points are considered trophies in MN. Walleyes 26" and up are trophies. I don't personally believe this (a trophy is in the eye of the beholder), but these are numbers I hear tossed around a lot.

Will the bar be raised once 150" bucks and 26" walleyes become fairly common due to management strategies? I can hear some people saying "I would be satisfied to take a 150 buck once in my life"--but once you got it, would you want more? What will the next "strategy" be to increase antler size or fin length--supercharged hormone feed in our food plots?

Do we have to put a tape measure to everything? Just something to think about.

[BLACKJACK]

I'm going to go against the trend and say I don't want anybody telling me what kind of deer I can shoot. I archery and gun hunt, my goal is to have a doe in the freezer by the time pheasant hunting rolls around so I can concentrate on pheasant hunting and then get back to buck hunting when the rut rolls around. But if I'm having a poor year, not enough time spent hunting because of work or illness and that **** good eating 6 point walks by in November, I want to be able to shoot it. Same with my 80 year old dad, if the only deer he sees is a forky, he should be able to shoot it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to shoot a big buck, but when the time comes, then I'll force myself to pass on the small ones until Mr. Big comes along. There are big bucks out there, just check out the photos in any sporting goods store or every week in the Outdoor News, lots of NICE bucks are shot in MN. So if you want a big buck, you need to put your time in, do more scouting, and spend more time in the field. Don't tell me what I can and cannot shoot and expect the easy way to a big buck to be the DNR and its rules. As far as I'm concerned, they're doing a great job and deer hunting is as good as its ever been. I remember when you treasured doe permits and it got to be a long season when you could only buck hunt.

Last year I could legally shoot three deer, so I had the opportunity to pick and choose, shoot an early doe or two (or a small buck) and still hold out for a big buck. I remember when you could only shoot one deer per year; if you used your permit early you were done. Or if you passed on that early doe or small buck, you'd be still hunting in Dec thinking how nice that early deer would look in your freezer.

Don't get me wrong, I've passed on small bucks, it’s a good feeling to let them walk. But that’s because I had the doe in the freezer and I was waiting for a big one. And I'm not convinced that point minimums work. What are the odds that spike I passed up on Nov 2 survived the gun season? Plus I foresee problems with people wasting deer, leaving a small buck in the field because it didn't meet the minimum number of points.

Pennsylvania has imposed a point minimum within the last several years, it will be interesting to see the long term results there.

In conclusion, I say leave the deer season the way it is, deer hunting is as good as I've ever seen it. If you feel the need to shoot a wallhanger, spend more time in the field, they are out there!!

[fivebucks]

I'm in about the same boat as you Blackjack and I couldn't have said it better. I've passed on my share of small bucks but I've also shot my share of spikes and forks. Sometimes that's all you see and you have no doe permit. I want to eat venison. I am happy with the number of deer around now so I can take a doe or two. Once I have meat I can be much more selective. I would much rather eat venison than buy beef at the store. I still like big antlers though.

[snowgoose]

Well said Blackjack.
I am all for letting the smaller ones go. But this is my personnal preferance.SP My nephew will start hunting in a couple of years. I want him to have the choice of taking a small buck if he want to. That's what I did. My first three bucks were all spikes. I will never forget any of them. Unlike some of the nicer bucks that I harvested in my 20's that I barly remember.
I think the idea of letting smaller buck walk is becoming more popular. If you look at the new regs for this year the DNR is promotting this. They also are talking about making changes in the future as to what the hunters want. Get involved. Before it's to late.

------------------
Hunt Snow Geese, Save the tundra

[Swamp Scooter]

eyesontonka,

I think WI does have that now. You can donate the deer at the registrations, some of them. I do not mind doing that but I found it more fulfilling to find some local people to help out. There are a couple of families I give meat to every year I am able. About 3 years ago I only shot one deer and was unable to give up to people. I still got a very nice Christmas card but made sure to double my efforts to assist them the following year. In WI it is only $20 for an additional antlerless tag for non-residents. Not a bad deal.

[EXTREME]

Snowgoose is right; more people are taking the initiative and shooting more mature bucks. Maybe it's an education thing. I personally have not shot a "spiker" in 4 or 5 years, and have reaped the rewards with 3 8-pointers and a 14-pointer. I passed up a dozen or so little bucks last year to shoot a decent 8. It takes self control; and once you have it, it comes easy. With this said what sort of ways are out there that we can educate people about the rewards of "abstinence" toward little bucks? It still is like everything else in life...your own choice!

[bigbucks]

I'm with the last bunch of guys & their posts. Sometimes I think Blackjack & I share the same brains, our thoughts on these matters are so similar.

I think it has to be a personal choice & the DNR needs to continue to educate people on letting the smaller bucks go & that more does need to be shot. I think this will improve in time, as it's just very hard for the older hunters especially, & I say that loosely meaning no disrespect, but the majority of guys who are serious deer hunters over 50-55 something like that, seem like they see "any buck as a good buck". (By the way, that's a quote I've heard a lot over the years.) I think that has a lot to do with hunting so many years when there weren't that many deer & the guys who consistently took any buck were "generally" the better hunters. We're probably less than 10 years removed from that hunting environment, maybe only 5, give it time, the self control thing with small bucks is catching on. You don't find many guys who bow hunt more than say 5 times a year, that will take a little buck until it's getting close to gun season & they haven't shot anything, & a lot still won't. I've said this before, when it comes to gun season the guys that hunt then, especially the ones in the two-day zones, can't be expected to only shoot trophies, if they want to shoot their own deer. I know in our area there's a ton of deer, but also a lot of hunters on many of the pieces of property, so several of the hunters may only get one deer all weekend they have a decent shot at. It might be anything from a 40lb. fawn to 300lb. buck. I for one am not going to tell them, no wait 'til next year. I can choose to do that because I've probably bowhunted 20-30+ times already at that point, but they haven't.

[Swamp Scooter]

Big bucks,

You said it well that we are not that far removed from the times when any deer was a good dear and if it had antlers WOW.

We need to try and continue to improve the herd but to do it the does must go and the young bucks should be passed up. Hard to do when they are in front of you.

Kind of like when you get your first pointing dog out to hunt with the boys. You have the only dog and we all want to get some birds. You tell your buddies we should see some birds but you can only shoot the ones pointed by the dog! They look at you and laugh but figure out it is better for the next time out and next season.

[HighLife100]

I was all for changing the regulations to a 4 point on a side system but I've now changed my mind due to this post. When my son is old enough to hunt I don't want him to have to pass up on his 1st deer because it might be a small buck. After his 1st deer I would encourage him to pass up small bucks and I won't shoot one myself but I think these should be personal choices and not laws.
As for population control I like the idea Wisconsin is going with to "earn a Buck". It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

[Mayfly]

I have a story....

About seven years ago I was hunting during the firearm season. I had a great spot picked out and there were plenty of deer around. About 8 in the morning I saw a small 6 pointer come walking down the trail. I chose not to take this deer in hopes for a bigger one. I watched the buck walk past me and head up a side of a ravine and bed down for about a half an hour. The buck then rose again and began meandering into the woods that border our property. About 1 minute after I lost sight of him....BANG. Dead deer. I was kinda dissapointed that I passed on him. I was also dissapointed that the neighbors took him. He was a small deer.
(I no longer rifle hunt in this area, reserved for Bow Only)

I have mixed reactions on this debate. I get discouraged when I bowhunt for two months and pass on tons of younger deer and then the rifle season comes and they get cleaned out. The only successful way to manage your deer herd is if you have enough land to do so or if it is an area effort. I honestly would be in favor of a two or three year trial period with a six point minimum. Eyestonka made a good point in saying that it only takes a couple years. It would be interesting.

As far as the area I rifle hunt now, I have noticed a trend in the way people hunt in my area. Its mostly all private and everyone knows eachother. The way people do it is they use the first week of the season waiting for their trophy. Once it comes down to the last few days of the season the saying "if its brown its down " comes into effect, and everything is shot. I think this isn't as good as a minimum but I think it gives the deer a better chance of survival. Most deer are spooked by the end of the season and more have become completely nocturnal. I like the way our herd looks. I've always seen a good number of nice bucks and every year there are multiple wall hangers taken.....but just imagine if there was a minimum, does sound kinda sweet

[This message has been edited by Mayfly (edited 08-07-2004).]

[eyesontonka]

Mayfly

I have been in similar situations as you..I now look at it like this..That buck you passed on got shot..well maybe the buck that walked past that same stand 1hr later lived to see another year..maybe you might shoot that deer this year and hes a 180 class buck..atleast you did your part..good job

[BLACKJACK]

Read an article by Gary Clancy in the ODN where he states that one of the problems with the deer hunting in MN is that the seasons run during the rut, that MN should delay the deer season which would help with buck survival.

I have mixed emotions on this. We've had gun seasons where its gotten into the 70's and some where you get snow and -10 degree temps, but the odds are if you delay the season, you'll get the colder, nastier weather. That could equate into less hunter hours afield = less deer harvested, which isn't what the DNR wants. Less novice and marginal hunters will go out in the cold and snow, but the hardcore deer hunters will make it out. As an archery hunter, it would give me more prime time rut hunting before the gun hunters get out. It might even increase the number of bow hunters.

My gut feeling is that it might increase the number of bigger bucks around but I also think that a delayed season would decrease the deer harvest overall. Right now the DNR is struggling to get hunters to shoot enough deer to keep the herd in check. We don't want deer to move from worthy big game animal status to a pest status.

What do you guys think about a later season?

[Swamp Scooter]

The two weeks after MN regular gun season is WI regular gun season. It is nice having the two states to hunt. If they made it later it would overlap with WI and I think that would also reduce the number of hunters.

Maybe make the season longer? Or, like in WI have a antlerless only hunt for a few days early or late season. The late season antlerless only would really help thin things out. Also gain more revenue.

[bigbucks]

I guess I'm not in favor of making the season later just because a lot of us "serious" hunters, self-included, would like to see more big bucks. I know a guy I work with thinks we should have one year where it's anterless only & in theory I agree with that, but I'd sure hate that to be the year Mr. buck-of-a-lifetime walks by.

I still think it has to be done through education & gradually the size will improve, this let the small bucks thing is catching on & I've really only heard it talked about commonly for 1-2 years. I agree that moving the season later would cut down on the overall kill & the herd's at a critical point where I don't think that would be good. As much as we'd all like to shoot bigger bucks, that really doesn't have all that much to do with the overall health of the state's deer herd or the condition of the sport of deer hunting.