The Deroit Lions will...

[BackHerUp]

...win 10 games this year, which will be good enough to win the division and put Steve Mariucci ahead of schedule in his re-building process. The Lions won't advance past the conference Championship (this year), but will win the Super Bowl in 2005!!. Thank you for your attention...

[This message has been edited by BackHerUp (edited 10-16-2004).]

[196thDLR]

Back: I figure that it is going to be tough for the Lions to lose in the conference championship when they will only finish second in the division. No, question about it, the Lions, like the Vikes, have improved greatly on paper during the off season.

[Mayfly]

Mariucci brought fresh enthusiasm and an improved attitude with him in his first season as the head coach in Detroit but was hamstrung by a lack of game-changing talent and managed only a two-win improvement over the previous year.
The Lions are armed with new weapons on offense and a defense that should be improved against the pass, youth at the skill positions could be an issue. Much will depend on whether Harrington can take advantage of the support he now has (Charles Rogers and Tai Streets!!) and take his game to the next level. Still, the talent pool is deeper and this is not the same Lions team that won just 10 games over the last three seasons.
Detroit has a chance to move past the Chicago Bears and climb out of the NFC Central basement, but challenging the established offensive stars of the Green Bay Packers and Minnesota Vikings might be a stretch. Getting to .500 is a realistic goal for this team and anything beyond that would be very questionable..........

[This message has been edited by Mayfly (edited 06-27-2004).]

[beer batter]

Don't forget the Lions also drafted another top notch receiver first round out of Texas and then picked up a running back towards the end of the first round. They definitely have their skill positions filled for many years to come on the offensive side of the ball. They will still be very week on both sides of the line though. Look for them to be near the bottom on both sacks and sacks allowed. Harrington will have to make many short passes due to poor protection this season.

[196thDLR]

Beer: The Lions are a minimum of two years away from being a quality NFL team. Like you said, their O line is very suspect. Other than Shawn Rogers, their D line is also suspect. Old R.P. is very aged for a DE. The Lions did some really good off-season moves, however, they are two years away.

[BackHerUp]

FYI:
The Lions pass defense ranked 22nd (to Minnesota's 24th) and their run defense ranked 24th (out of 32 teams). An enormous increase from the previous year where they ranked deadlast and second to deadlast in those same categories...

Now, their passing offense was weak, due in part to losing Charles Rogers, Az Hakim and Scottie Anderson to injuries (all 3 were starters). Their replacements tried, but fell short. This year Charles Rogers will be joined by Roy Williams and Tai Streets!!!

The offensive line proved to be the best pass blocking unit in the NFL! They allowed a league low 11 sacks (for 64 yards lost)!! Next closest team was GB and Ind with 19 sacks allowed. By the way...Minnesota allowed 43 sacks! Only Arizona (44), NYG (44) and Buffalo (51) were worse...

The Lions improved their already (league leading) great offensive line by signing Pro Bowler (Guard) Damien Woody from the New England Patriots, signing David Loverne from the Jets and drafting Kelly Butler (T/Purdue)...

They also added running back Kevin Jones whose credentials rival Barry Sanders':

*In 37 games at Virginia Tech, he carried 616 times for 3475 yards (5.6 avg) and 35 touchdowns...All-American first-team selection by The NFL Draft Report, Walter Camp, Football Writers Association, The Sporting News and American Football Coaches Association, adding second-team honors from the Associated Press...

So please...do your homework first...

------------------
"Shhh...I'm fishing"

[196thDLR]

Back: I'm sure Harrington and his mobility had nothing to do with the low sack total. However, a starting quarterback still has to throw more touchdowns than interceptions. Granted, the people who play the quarterback position in the NFL, have to have an enormous confidence level. My guess is, neither you or I could. The Lions, had one of the top five drafts in the whole of the NFL for 2004.

I do not think that Roy Williams is a Randy Moss. I don't think he is even a Charles Rogers. He is what he is until he faces comptetion in the NFL; a top collegate prospect. Until I see Jones play in the NFL, I am going to reserve judgement on if he is another Barry Sanders! That man was special.

[james_walleye]

You have got too be kidding me if you think the Lions will move past the vikings and packers based on a couple of draft picks who havent even played a down in the NFL yet and a QB who hasnt proved anything yet. You have a defense who made a so called "big improvement" last year to about 24th overall. That ranking isnt going to change much this year. You cant give a logical reason to believe this team can win a division with a defense that bad, a QB who we still dont know will be anything at all, and a couple rookies who havent even played a preseason game yet. In this day and age in the NFL anything is possible (panthers last year) but thats all you can hope for this year as a lion fan im sorry.

[This message has been edited by james_walleye (edited 07-09-2004).]

[foods]

the lions will win 10 games when barry sanders comes out of retirement and they go back to that fancy offense called the run-and-shoot.

-foods

[BackHerUp]

196thDLR
posted 06-28-2004 10:38 PM

"Back:
...I do not think that Roy Williams is a Randy Moss. I don't think he is even a Charles Rogers."

Well, I know Roy Williams only has to be himself to accomplish as much as Randy Moss has.
What has Moss done for the Vikings? Nothing. Setting records are a fine personal achievement and good for his ticket into the Hall of Fame (where other Vikings reside before him)...but again, the players aren't drafted to get into the Hall. They're brought in to help a "team" get to its ultimate goal...the Super Bowl. Last time I checked, the Vikings have yet to win a Super Bowl (so they essentially have nothing over the Lions), and since Randy Moss arrived, they haven't even gotten close! It's only gonna get worse for you this year...when Moss will pull a Terrel Owens and leave...after failing to get to the "promised land" (through no fault but his own).
So, keep your Randy Moss (as long as you do, you won't win any Super Bowls), I'll take my chances with the current Lions...this much I know...they've won as many Super Bowls as the Vikings...zero!

[This message has been edited by BackHerUp (edited 07-10-2004).]

[james_walleye]

Gee i guess Tim Brown has done nothing for the Raiders, Marvin Harrison has done nothing for the Colts nor has Peyton Manning. Barry Sanders did nothing for the Lions in his time. All because none won a championship? Give me a break. Im not sure which Randy Moss you've been watching but hes not the Randy Moss from 1998. Why dont you go watch any tape of any game last season and come up with one instance of him being a punk. There is no one in the game that commands so much attention and so much defensive game planning as Randy Moss. You put a game plan together against the vikes and its based on holding R Mo in check. I'll say it again your nuts if you think the Lions will be better than the vikings or packers this year.

[Piker]

Those are some nice stats on the Lions, but if Super Bowls are everything then what was their Win/Loss last year? I think the Lions will be a nice team, but not this year and probably not the next. I'm a Viking rube, but I don't see them finishing ahead of MN or GB. If there's one thing I've learned about the NFL it's that anything can happen any given year. Every year there are several surprise teams, both good and bad. Despite their stats, I don't like their O-line either. I think Roy Williams will be a great player one day, he's got tools and he seems to be a level headed. He was arguably a top 3 pick in last years draft, but to his credit stayed in school. I wouldn't have done that. I'll give the Lions their due, they've turned a 180 from 2 years ago. They're on the right track, I just think they need a little seasoning. If I had to bet I'd say they'll be 6-10 this year. The entire NFC North has tough schedule this year with having to play the AFC South. They do play Chicago at home and at Houston to start the year, a 2-0 start might be a real boost.

[Fireforge]

BackHerUp,
Get serious. You really aren't talking smack about the Lions are you?!?!?!

Granted they have improved, they still have some hurdles to leap before deserving this kind of hype.

Give them 2 years and then start talking your nonsense. Right now you just sound foolish.

I guess winning just a few games a season is alot when you are a Lions fan! I will give you credit though, at least you're not a bandwagon fan like most ViQueens fans.

[buzzsaw]

I'll keep it short.. you sound like the Common man!! An @!#$#! Sorry I couldn't resist but no way brother are the motor city kitty's finishing any better than 3rd place!! Everybody has stated before me all of the reasons.... except one... Matt Millen is really not that bright!
P.S. So we can't compare Super Bowls won... then lets talk about atleast how many we've been to... 4 for us zippo for you clown bakes! How many Division championships do you have since say 1962 when the Vikes came into the league?? I'll go out on a limb and say Minnesota has enjoyed ALOT more success even if we havn't won the Super Bowl than the Motor City Kitty's! You guys just can't get a good QB in that city!! Name one please... Hipple, Lane, Danielson, the majik man part 2, Peete, Harrington, Landry was OK, Dutch Clark, Kent Graham, Bobby Layne was OK in the 50's), Charlie beyaatch.. I mean Batch. I'm sure theres more, but YUCK!

[196thDLR]

Holy Cow Back. Let's see here, if Detroits' O-line is that good, why did the Lions finish dead last in the NFL on offense? The Vike's have proved one thing to every NFL fan; You can have the NFL's best offense, but you can not win without defense. I have no doubt the Lions will be a much improved team this year, but I do not see them going more than 8-8.

As far as the other stuff goes, Super Bowls and such, first you have to be in the playoffs to get there. I don't remember the Lions being more than once or twice in the last 40 years.

[BackHerUp]

196thDLR:

Their offensive line was that good.
The stats prove it.
The running game was that bad!
The stats prove that too!

After they lost Artose Pinner (Kentucky), their top RB selected in '03...they were further devastated by season-ending injuries to both RB James Stewart (in the final pre-season game) and then top pick WR Charles Rogers in game 5...

They scrambled trying to find a running back by signing Shawn Bryson (from Buffalo), Olandis Gary (from Denver) and Paul Smith (from the 49'ers)...none of which were able to contribute to Mariucci's complicated offense...

They also tried to fill Rogers' abscence by picking up WR's Reggie Swinton (from Dallas) and Trevor Gaylor (from the Falcons)...but again, they contributed next to nothing!

This is a new season though...and so far, everyone's healthy.
Against Pittsburgh (Saturday), the #1 unit marched down the field and scored on both of it's possessions (when they were replaced by the #2 and #3 units in the second quarter)...Harrington looked great. Charles Rogers made all 3 third down conversions in the first 80 yard TD drive! Roy Williams didn't even have to make a catch...they couldn't double team either receiver or the Steelers would get burned!

Their starting cornerbacks (Fernando Bryant and Dre Bly), strong safety (Brian Walker) and 1st round draft pick, RB Kevin Jones didn't even suit up! Didn't have to!

Lions 27 - Steelers 21

Aren't you guys relieved you beat the Arizona Cardinals? HA-HA!!!!

Oh!...my baby boy just woke up from a nap...gotta go!

[buzzsaw]

Back her up, I can appreciate being optimistic, but your team just won a pre-season football game by 6 points! I really believe your setting yourself up for a letdown... Do you realize why you've had such high draft picks the last few years?? It's because your team has really been stinky... don't blame it on injuries... everybody has them and I wouldn't put to much stock in all of your rookies until they've played a few years... C. Rogers is still basically a rookie for the lack of playing time he saw last year. Harrington should be better with another full year under his belt... your rookie RB played good in college... whoopie! Your defense is actually decent... 7-9 my boy... 7-9
Let me break it down 4 ya!
3 best QB in division.. way behing top two!
4th best running back stable in division!
3rd best receiving corp in the division!
3rd or 4th best defense in div.. speculation
Coaching.... who knows!
winning history.... worst in the conference!
Take baby steps my boy, your team will be like your motor vcity baseball team.. improved but still way off the radar! ( :

[swampman]

Your poor little boy proably had a nightmare about having to be a Lions fan. Just kidding.

[buzzsaw]

Oh and one more thing... To borrow the quote you used on another person in this thread.... DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You said Randy Moss hasn't even gotten Minnesota close to the Super Bowl.......
Hmmmmmmmmm, 1998 metrodome championship vs Falcons ring a bell.... Alzheimers is not good ma boy.

[buzzsaw]

Had to mention... in a stunning (yawn) pre-season game the "high powered" Lions were able to score 7 points on the mighty Browns defense!! Look out NFC!! The Lions will be the Lions (YAWN)

[vikingtom]

Lose agian. 6-10 Pennington throws too early to be Vikes rule all the ways to Super Bowl.
Go Vikes

[BackHerUp]

buzzsaw ("toughguy moniker")...wrote: "You said Randy Moss hasn't even gotten Minnesota close to the Super Bowl.......
Hmmmmmmmmm, 1998 metrodome championship vs Falcons ring a bell.... Alzheimers is not good ma boy."

Wow...you must be proud.
I do regret having used the words, "...since Randy Moss arrived, they haven't even gotten close!", because they did lose by a field goal (if I care to recall) in that one. What I do remember about that day, was catching my trophy 42" Northern Pike (yes, a replica has been made) at Mille Lacs! Oh, that and the joy of hearing that the Vikings lost! What a great day that was!!

In looking at the schedules, I've got the Lions going 10-6 this season and the Vikes going 6-10 and losing the first 2 against Dallas and Philadelphia, winning the next 2 against Chicago and Houston, then losing the next 4 against New Orleans (@ NO), Tennessee, NY Giants, and Indy (@ Indy)...sorry, that's just the way I see it.

How's it feel having an ex-Lion at back-up QB and the injury prone Chris Claiborne on your team..."tag, you're it!"...

P.S: I've always like Gus Ferrotte...

------------------
Oh yeah...
buzzsaw:

"...in a stunning (yawn) pre-season game the "high powered" Lions were able to score 7 points on the mighty Browns defense!! Look out NFC!! The Lions will be the Lions (YAWN)"

In that pre-season game against the Browns, the starters played 1 quarter, and the starting defensive backs didn't play at all.

In their next pre-season game the starters beat the Ravens starters 6-3, before they were pulled at halftime for the 2nd team...so the defense held Baltimore to a field goal and the starting defensive backfield all played.

Last night, the backup QB Mike McMahon started and beat Buffalo, http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=353795
against the vaunted Buffalo defense -- ranked second overall in the NFL for 2003...it feels good to be a Lions fan, really good!. (right now, anyway)

[This message has been edited by BackHerUp (edited 09-04-2004).]

[B. Amish]

I seen on ESPN last night that the lions haven't won a road game since Clinton was in office..........yep they're going to the playoffs

[vikingtom]

Loin's are losers just like the tigers.

[BackHerUp]

...and the Vikings can't beat Arizona when it counts!

The Super Bowl champ New England Patriots, ended their exhibition season with a three-game losing streak and a 31-0 loss to Jacksonville. They're still picked to go to the Super Bowl...none of New England's 22 first-stringers played (on Thursday night) when the Jaguars beat them with four touchdown passes in the fourth quarter...

None of that matters though...it's a new season and everyone is undefeated right now...

Hey guys...sorry, but I've gotta go on an extended road trip, so you may not hear from me for awhile (aren't you gonna miss me ), but I'll check in when I can...so you'll have someone to argue with!! GO LIONS!!-- AK

[This message has been edited by BackHerUp (edited 09-04-2004).]