Foundation problem - can I go back after the builder?? Other options?

[BLACKJACK]

We built our walkout rambler 17 years ago, got bids from several builders and picked one that had a good reputation. When they did the basement, they used block on the north wall, and about 1/3 of the east and west walls, then they used treated 2x6's, with treated plywood on the outside, for the rest of the east and west walls, and the south wall. The dirt on the east and west sides slopes down gradually from north to south, on the north its one block down to on the south its about 3 foot deep, then slopes to a walkout on the south side.

My problem is that the east wall is starting to bow in right where the treated 2x6's start. At this point its about 4 inches. To complicate matters the basement is finished and we have a gas fireplace with rock going from floor to ceiling on the inside of that east wall. At this point I don't see any cracking on the inside wall or fireplace.

I know I'm going to have to hire a backhoe and block guy to fix this but what options do I have as far as going after the builder? Yes I know its been 17 years but a foundation should last longer than that!!!! I questioned the use of treated timbers vs. block back when we built the house but he just said something to the affect that "thats the way its done".

Any helpful ideas are welcome!!

[NoWiser]

I'm pretty sure you won't have any luck going after the builder. They need to warranty against any structural defects for 10 years and after that I'm pretty sure you are on your own.

[18 inch Crappie]

Insurance job maybe?

[BLACKJACK]

Yeah I've heard that 10 year figure tossed out elsewhere but a building error is a building error, I still would expect a foundation to last longer than 17 years!!!! My guess is that he was cutting costs, wood was cheaper than block.

[BLACKJACK]

Insurance job maybe?

What do you mean by insurance job??

I've already talked to my insurance guy and 'wear and tear' isn't covered. I said do I have to wait for a big rain storm to cave it in?? Then they'd have to cover it.

My next step is to go talk to the county building inspectors, see what code actually is and what it was back then.

I want to get my ducks in a row before I call the builder. He may blow me off and not even stop by or he may do the right thing and turn it into his insurance.

Any other ideas??

[delcecchi]

Some kinds of treated wood foundations had a 40 year warranty. You might try to identify who produced the "treated wood". Foundations used specially treated stuff.

[Archtek]

Some kinds of treated wood foundations had a 40 year warranty. You might try to identify who produced the "treated wood". Foundations used specially treated stuff.

I seem to remember that too. But, as I recall, it was warranted against decay, not a structural problem. Or at least all the warranty discussions I heard revolved around rot. So unless it could be shown that decay was causing the wall to bow, the OP's only option may be to go after the contractor.

Is this something that has occurred gradually over time or is it something that has started recently?

[BLACKJACK]

Is this something that has occurred gradually over time or is it something that has started recently?

Hard to say, we had the house resided this summer because of hail and once the siding was off its like 'what the heck is this bow in the wall'? So I just noticed it about a month ago.

[delcecchi]

So the bowing is in the block below grade? And the treated wood is above grade? So rather than the top of the block being level, it is different on different walls, or steps down?

Just trying to understand.

[Wensel]

Was it built to code, a call to your local building official may be a different thought.

[BLACKJACK]

So the bowing is in the block below grade? And the treated wood is above grade? So rather than the top of the block being level, it is different on different walls, or steps down?

Just trying to understand.

Block is fine, its the treated wood thats bowing.

Picture a rectangle in front of you, you're in the basement, looking at the east wall. The left 1/3 is all block from ceiling to cement floor. The right 2/3 is all treated wood, 2x6 studs with treated plywood on the outside from ceiling to cement floor.

Grade on the outside runs from up by the ceiling on the left upper corner down to about 2 foot from the cement floor on the right lower corner.

The bowed in part is closest to where the cement block and wooden part of the wall join, where the grade on the outside would be the deepest against the wood wall.

[LightningBG]

My problem is that the east wall is starting to bow in right where the treated 2x6's start. At this point its about 4 inches. To complicate matters the basement is finished and we have a gas fireplace with rock going from floor to ceiling on the inside of that east wall. At this point I don't see any cracking on the inside wall or fireplace.

I guess I'm a little confused as well. What is it that is bowing? The block is leaning in? The lumber portion is bowed in? Is it bowed in horizontally or vertically or from a central point? Is the wood portion above or below grade? I'm not sure how the wall can be bowing in 4 inches without it being visible from the inside as well. Was the gas fireplace put in by the builder 17 years ago? I'm wondering if any framing was altered or removed if it was put in after the fact. Or if the heat from the fireplace could be a factor at all.

Honestly, I don't think you'll be able to go after anyone for this one with the given information. There are too many factors that could have caused it which have nothing to do with the original construction. Unfortunately I think you're going to have to start tearing into the walls to figure out what is wrong before any remedies or fault can be established.

Have any pictures of the condition?

(I see you answered some of these while I was typing)

[LightningBG]

Unfortunately, I'd start saving. That's not going to be a cheap fix. My guess is the dirt outside will have to be excavated away. The upper levels of the house will have to be temporarily supported while that wall gets torn out and replaced. It's going to be a major construction zone.

Although I would never put wood below grade, there are plenty of houses out there that are built all wood and have no problems. Something isn't right, that's for sure. Maybe was caused from a drainage issue. Unfortunately, the interior of that wall will almost surely have to come down to see what's happening. Whether the original contractor could be liable, I'm not sure.

Or---- You could just keep an eye on it. Try to take some accurate measurements and see if its staying the same or getting worse. If it's static and isn't changing, and isn't leaking water, you could ride it out for a while. Who knows, maybe that happened within the first year or two and it's been like that all along. But I would make sure the dirt slopes well away from that wall so no more water is getting down there (as good as possible).

[BLACKJACK]

Unfortunately, I'd start saving. That's not going to be a cheap fix. My guess is the dirt outside will have to be excavated away. The upper levels of the house will have to be temporarily supported while that wall gets torn out and replaced. It's going to be a major construction zone.

[BLACKJACK]

Was the gas fireplace put in by the builder 17 years ago? I'm wondering if any framing was altered or removed if it was put in after the fact. Or if the heat from the fireplace could be a factor at all.

Original builder left the basement unfinished. Ten years later we had another builder finish the basement, put up interior wall, and sheetrock. His only touching of that wall was sheet rock. And probably drilling for electricity. Then as last touch on finishing basement we added the gas fireplace, which is surrounded by rock, actually looks pretty nice.

Its a gas fireplace, vented right thru the wall, I can't see where there would be enough heat to damage things.

[LightningBG]

I'm not sure the heat would do anything either, but I do know those pipes get pretty toasty. I'm assuming its double wall pipe, so that will lessen the heat transferred into the wall. I made the mistake of touching the exhaust piece on a buddies a few years back when the fireplace was on. That was a mistake. Leave it to a few beers to cloud the judgement.

[Tom7227]

Is the original contractor still around doing business with the same corporation? 17 years is a long time for someone to do that.

You likely do not have a remedy under the law based on faulty work as the statute of limitations ran a long time ago. Years ago when wood foundations were becoming popular there may have been manufacturers who issued warranties on the materials used. You may have something to go on there. If you can find the paperwork that would tell you what the warranty covers.

I was able to collect a small amount of money from a company that made the steel siding that was 20 years old and pealing. If you can find the name of the manufacturer of the wood or the process used to build do some research and see if there is some sort of case where they are doing refunds. May even be some sort of class action lawsuit. Do the Google.

[delcecchi]

If you search on "wood foundations" there is a lot of information.

I did see this

Quote:

Structurally strong (How do you make it strong enough?)

We all know wood walls can hold up several stories of height, but over time, soil acts like a thick liquid, and can exert lateral loads (sideways pressure) on the walls. If foundation walls sit 4 ft or less in the ground, structural designs can be determined from code-approved tables. But foundations deeper than 4 ft in the ground need to be engineered to withstand the lateral loads.

You might think that specifying the size and spacing of the studs to keep them from buckling is all there is, but keeping the walls in place, at the top and the bottom, especially during backfill, is more important. How the walls are fastened to the basement and main floors determine how long the system will last. Lateral loads need to be calculated, the size, type and spacing of fasteners need to be specified and conscientiously installed.

I’ve seen several wood foundation failures, and every single one happened not because of wood rot, but because the builder thought the specs were excessive, and must have said “I don’t need to do that!”

Also this

Quote:

If you plan to install a wood foundation, get help with the design and construction first by ordering a booklet from The Southern Pine Council called “Permanent Wood Foundations.” Search “Southern Pine Council” for more information.

[PurpleFloyd]

Post a few pictures please

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

A warranty for major structural defects on a residential home is 10 yrs. under the code. If the house is more then 10 yrs old you may be on your own. If it isn't you may be able to do something about it with the original builder

[YiGGiN4SLoBS]

I'm pretty sure you won't have any luck going after the builder. They need to warranty against any structural defects for 10 years and after that I'm pretty sure you are on your own.

Sorry, didn't see this post. NoWIser is dead on. After 10 yrs you are on your own.

[BLACKJACK]

A warranty for major structural defects on a residential home is 10 yrs. under the code. If the house is more then 10 yrs old you may be on your own. If it isn't you may be able to do something about it with the original builder

How about if the builder also drew up the plans for the house??

[BLACKJACK]

I'm not sure the heat would do anything either, but I do know those pipes get pretty toasty. I'm assuming its double wall pipe, so that will lessen the heat transferred into the wall. I made the mistake of touching the exhaust piece on a buddies a few years back when the fireplace was on. That was a mistake. Leave it to a few beers to cloud the judgement.

Its not the heat, I checked the west wall that was built the same and its bowed inward also. Took my 48 level an laid against the sheetrock on both sides and you can see visible bowing.

[BLACKJACK]

Sorry, didn't see this post. NoWIser is dead on. After 10 yrs you are on your own.

It doesn't seem right, you build your dream house and a supposedly reputable builder cuts a few corners and now I've got a mess. My thoughts at this point si that if I end up spending tens of thousands of dollars to fix this, I might as well talk to a lawyer.

[BLACKJACK]

Is the original contractor still around doing business with the same corporation? 17 years is a long time for someone to do that.