Grandpa's Boat (My Project)

[TylerS]

First, a little story:

So when I was just a squirt, grandpa bought a new boat. For years all he has was an aluminum row-boat, so a true boat with an outboard was a serious upgrade. She was a beaut, too: Alumacraft 16-footer console with a 60-horse Mercury outboard and a bow-mounted trolling motor. He absolutely loved that thing. We'd fish morning crappies and pike on the little Iron-Range lake he lived on, then as the sun came up, the cousins and I would jump into our swim trunks and get yanked around on a tube.

Fun times all around, whiplash and all.

Fast forward a few years, and my teenage cousins were up on some border waters for an extended camping trip. They brought two boats: Their dad's and grandpa's. They were having a grand old time, until grandpa's engine blew. Genius cousin had filled the gas tank with straight gasoline instead of mixing in oil. Luckily the second boat worked fine and they towed grandpa's to the landing.

Grandpa's boat was toast. And since grandpa was too nice to let cousin pay to fix it, the boat sat there for years. Grandpa kept it clean, but after bringing it in to get fixed and being told the engine needed to be scrapped, he never was able to afford to buy a new engine.

When I was in college, I learned grandpa, rather forlornly, decided he needed to sell the boat. Being as it was now a fixer-upper, I said I'd be happy to pay him what he thought it was worth. Even though I was absolutely dirt poor, I thought it would be great to keep the boat in the family and tinker with it in my spare time (and with whatever spare money I could scrape up). He was tickled I even wanted it, and said he'd take a couple hundred bucks. Perfect.

Or, at least I thought. Uncle (the one whose son blew the engine up in the first place) somehow found out and wouldn't let grandpa sell the boat. Said it was worth at least $1,000, even with a dead motor. So grandpa apologized and said he couldn't sell it to me. No worries! I wasn't going to cause trouble. Wished him luck and said I'd help out in any way I could to get the boat ready to sell.

For three more years the boat sat there with no takers (or at least no offers Uncle was willing to let grandpa take). Then last summer, grandpa and grandma had to sell their lake home and move to an assisted living place.

Out of the blue, I get a call: Do you still want grandpa's boat?

"Sure, but I can't afford $1,000."

"He said you can have it."

"Seriously?"

The deal was done. Dad went up to get the boat, and after a full day of making sure the trailer was highway-ready, it made it's way to me.

Where it has sat since last fall.

Now, I was TOLD that the motor was froze-up. Dead. Kaput. And that's what I've believed since I got it. But this weekend, upon inspection, I learned that it is NOT, in fact, froze up. The fly wheel actually TURNS. And the cylinders obviously have compression. Does it start??? Didn't know. So I threw a charge on the 10-year-old battery (hahaha, yea right) and I kid you not, the thing held a charge! Enough to shoot the starter up and start whirling. But it didn't engage, so I squirted a little WD-40 on it and, lo and behold, the sucker engages the fly wheel! And turns the motor over!!

Holy moly what have we got here! But does it run??? That's the question, and I'm honestly afraid to find out.

This thing has sat for a good decade (give or take a year or two) and I can't even begin to wonder where I should start. I know I need to dump the gas out of the tank, but beyond that I'm clueless. I tried getting the spark plugs out, but they're practically welded in place.

I'm not completely mechanically inept, but I'm not totally comfortable with ripping apart a motor to inspect and tune it. Leaning toward a good mechanic (if I can find a trustworthy individual). I mean, beyond the motor obviously not being frozen up, is there anything else that could be wrong with it from having straight gas run through an outboard without oil injection? Powerhead, perhaps? Like I said, this is kind of foreign territory for me. I cleaned a carburetor on my snowblower this winter and just about had a coronary when it started after I put it back together.

Beyond the motor, the boat seems in great condition. Trailer could use some work. Tail lights don't work that well because of all the rust (had to run the ground all the way to the front of the trailer).

I guess I'm open to suggestions. If this was your boat, and you were in my position (I do not have the financial freedom to drop $$$$ on a new/rebuilt outboard) what would you do?

[mwal]

I would think you need to get the plugs out to determine the compression. I would not turn it over since it was run without oil your are just damaging it further. Perhaps a local mechanic could advise you on how to soak a penetrating oil around spark plugs. They would also know how much tourque you need to safely break the plugs loose. Any Fuel in the lines or bowl or fuel filter have probable turned to varnish or evaporated and left gummy deposits probably requiring a carb rebuild and check fuel lines. I would think the first order is to get plugs out and some oil into it and hand cycle then do compression test to determine if piston rings are intact or cylinders scored. I would not spend any time doing anything else until you figure that out because if rings are shot and cylinders and pistons shot it may be cheaper to repower with a used motor.

Mwal

[Musky hunter 82]

I was in the same boat, a couple of years ago I was given my grandpa old boat, now I only fished out of it once when I was younger but knowing that he fished out of it was really cool. The one I was given the motor and boat had sat in a barn for 10 -15 years with out ever being started. All I did was hand turn the fly wheel before I cranked it over to make sure there was compression and sprayed a little carb/choke cleaner in the cylinders (it's a 50 hp) and connected a battery. Before I turned it over I told my wife that if it starts I'll fix it up if not I'll sell it (I already had a 14' boat). Well it fired right up, now i did bring it to a mechanic that put in a new water pump and impeller. I also put in a new engine block and power head this year since the compression was off enough in the cylinders to cause it to not idle right. But when the sun shines on you things have a way of working out, i didn't have a lot of money either to send on fixing the motor and finding out that it would be around $1500.00 to bore it out and over size it, I thought that was it can't afford that. But the mechanic thought a little and low and behold he had the same motor just one year older sitting behind his shop that had a bad lower unit but the engine block, power head and pistons where in great shape. So for $500 (parts and labor) he fixed it right up for me. Thing runs great now. So I'd say do a little digging around on what it would take to fix the motor if there is a problem, and keep a positive attitude, it'll all work out like it's suppose to. Here's a before and after picture of the boat I'm talking about. There's frost on the boat in the last picture.

[leechlake]

I couldn't tell you anything about fixing the boat since it's not in my skill arena.

I will tell you that it sounds exciting and a fun adventure fixing up Grandpas boat. My dad's 84 and I know he'd be excited to hear about me fixing up his old boat. Have fun doing it and good luck and keep grandpa posted in your successes and failures in the task.

[delcecchi]

I agree. A compression test will tell you a lot. If you have good compression, you are on a down hill pull. If you have much less than maybe 100 psi or the cylinders are significantly different, then you either need a different power head or some internal work. Good news is the motor is old enough that a new used power head might not be that expensive. Look on the bay or call twin cities outboard as a start.

There is a thread here that talks about measuring compression.

PM me, I can send you something that might help.

[TylerS]

Thanks for all the help so far, guys.

To be clear, I didn't crank excessively on the motor when I attempted to see if it would turn over. I literally (not figuratively, but literally) turned the key for maybe 1.65 seconds...long enough to hear the starter engage and the engine roll. If it was damaged from that, then there probably is more wrong with it than I imagine.

I drained the gas from the tank this morning. Lucky for me it's actually an exposed tank nestled in front of the motor but underneath a panel. A few screws/bolts and I should be able to remove it to give it a thorough cleaning.

Fuel lines and primer bulb seem in remarkably good shape. I figured sitting that long they'd for sure be cracked, but after bending it like a pipe cleaner, I can't see a single fissure. I even primed the bulb to see what would happen, and sure enough after a few squeezes it got almost rock hard. Looks like it's in working order.

I hooked up the wires to the battery to see if the accessories work. Internal lights: Check. Horn: check. Radio: Check. Depth finder: Check. Aerator: Check. Nav lights: Burnt bulb in rear light, but easy fix. Bilge pump: Nada. Not sure if I just can't hear it run because it's not in water, or if it's actually out. I could hear the aerator kick in, so I know that works, but when I flipped the bilge switch it was dead quiet. May need to investigate. Anyone a bilge expert?

My dad upgraded his trolling motor last year and gave me a MinnKota 55 Auto-Pilot with the built-in ducer. Grandpa had his trolling motor spliced to a wire under the bow. I'm assuming he just never had the time to get the right adaptor for the built-in trolling motor coupler. So I yanked that yesterday and will head to the sporting good store at some point to see if I can get the male/female connectors and re-rig it properly. That would be sweet. I also found a couple extra wires behind the control panel on the front (the one that houses the trim button for the outboard as well as the trolling motor jack). Funny enough, grandpa's boat came with an extra depth finder, so I may be able to rig that up to the extra cables and have a bow-mounted depth finder to run next to the trolling motor! That's down on my list of "must-do's," but it could be fun to try. I just need to see if Minn-Kota makes an appropriate adaptor for the old Eagle depth finder. Might be too old, but we'll see.

[jentz]

Tyler I used to rebuild boats,quit doing that and only do motors now.I have parts galore!! Need that minnkota wire connecter.You pay shipping and I'll send you the set.Lots of other stuff also.

Your bilge pump is siezed it may be taken down and cleaned and come out in working condition.If you need help ask.If you PM me your email we can set something up for some fre3e parts and some I'd have to charge a little for.

[TylerS]

Tyler I used to rebuild boats,quit doing that and only do motors now.I have parts galore!! Need that minnkota wire connecter.You pay shipping and I'll send you the set.Lots of other stuff also.

Your bilge pump is siezed it may be taken down and cleaned and come out in working condition.If you need help ask.If you PM me your email we can set something up for some fre3e parts and some I'd have to charge a little for.

Hey, thanks for that! PM sent.

Would the bilge be under the floorboards? That's how my dad's Lund is, and I don't think I see a bilge under the back panel where the hydraulics and gas can are.

[mwal]

TylerS

The Bilge pump is usually in the very back to the left or right of the drain plug. If it was a factory rigged bilge it would be on a bracket to hold away from the hull 1/4 inch or so . To keep from sucking up dirt and debris. Bilge pumps can usually be separated from the base to allow you to clean the impeller. See if you can separate and spin impeller sometimes the brushes get a little corrosion from just siting and moving the shaft will get it started. IF that doesn't work check your fuses they also can get a white fuzzy corrosion I use a pencil eraser to clean up then a small dab of dielectric grease to stop it from happening again. If you are lucky and do not crack the base removing the pump a replacement pump may snap onto the same base Its a bear to get at those base if you have to change it all the way out. I almost forgot your switch can also get corroded pull the blade connector off the back and inspect if the blades are dull shine up with the eraser or light use of an emory cloth and a dab of dielectric. Inline fuses are notorious for getting the white corrosion as well.

I hope you are able to get many years of enjoyment out of the boat.

Good Luck

[TylerS]

Awesome advice, mwal. I'll see what I find. Fuses are one aspect I hadn't considered. Probably would be wise to get a bunch of replacements. I know my dad's boat blows at least two fuzes a summer.

[TylerS]

Took mwal's advice and dug around for the bilge. Found it, but what a bear to get out! Because of the design of the "utility area," I had to remove the hydraulic unit, which I almost couldn't do because of it's tight proximity to the gas can. After trying with all I could muster to remove the gas can (could NOT get one of the hoses off), I finally managed to squeeze a ratcheting socket into a gap and remove one of the bolts holding down the hydraulics (I'm guessing it's hydraulics, I honestly have no idea). With that slid out of the way, I could reach back and feel the hose to the bilge and the aerator. The bilge was free-floating underneath the floorboards, so I just slipped it out and got it off the hose. I took it apart, dusted it off, put it back together and it ran! Squeeled like a sonofagun, but it worked. I'm guessing it won't be so noisy if it's actually in water.

Then I took a look at the aerator. Whoops. Problem. The hose was free from the unit. Closer inspecting revealed the outbound spot had broken off. Even though the aerator works, there's no way of connecting it back to the hose. So I guess I need to get a new aerator! At lest I figured out how to get the darn thing off.

[mwal]

They put those pumps and hoses in prior to installing the floor and splash well. They must think things never break. I always put the pink non toxic antifreeze into the livewell each fall that will prevent water from freezing and breaking the connection at the pump. Either that or blow it out with an air hose.

Mwal

[TylerS]

Blowing it out with an air hose is a great idea. I'll have to remember that this year (if she ever hits the water, that is).

I hope I never have a bilge problem on the water. It took me a good half hour to get everything detached, moved and investigated. By that time, the boat would be at the bottom of the lake!

I'm not 100 percent happy with the fact the bilge is free floating. It clearly has a bracket for attaching it to a side wall or something. I'm not sure if it slipped loose over the years, or was never attached in the first place. The stiffness of the hose should keep the bilge tight to the bottom, so hopefully there won't be an issue with its functionality at the moment of truth.

[mwal]

If its free floating it will eventually get damaged just from trailering. I learned to use the non toxic anti freeze made for rv water systems after have to remove the floor of my old Princecraft due to an elbow in the water line freezing as the water never fully drained. I have a different boat now but still do that to my livewells. Since it non toxic made for drinking water systems I figured it won't harm anything when I rinse it out in the driveway. Also if you use your boat in the winter get a plug for the water intake for the livewell on the outside of the boat then you won't have to worry about water coming in when using the boat when it's below freezing.

Mwal

[TylerS]

I agree that the free-floating bilge isn't a good idea, but the more I look at it the more I think it's actually how it's supposed to be. I can't for the life of me figure out where it would mount. There's no plate underneath the floor boards where it sits, and the only way would be to turn it 90 degrees and drill holes into the boat...and act that is impossible without removing a ton of rivets. I think the bilge might be OK simply because it's a pretty tight squeeze underneath the floor. Even though it can slide laterally, I don't think it will be doing much bouncing up and down.

Still, dumb design. Don't like it. But at this point I'm willing to live with it.

[delcecchi]

I used to have an Alumacraft classic 16, 1984 vintage, and now that you mention it that might be how my bilge pump was located, just sitting on the bottom of the boat. The hoses and wires would keep it from moving too much.

My boat used 6 gallon portable tanks, and as I recall the live well was under the seat, so if necessary to access the under floor area it shouldn't have been too hard. But it has been a long time since I had that boat and might not be recalling correctly.

[Ufatz]

If you allow a bilge pump to rattle around loose long enough it will have problems. Here's a trick I have used on a couple of small (14') boats. First I cut a 6"X6" square of good wood and then used JB Weld or Marine Tex to glue it to the boat bottom in the stern..low to the center line. Then mount the bilge pump to that block of wood. This will raise the pump a bit so you will not get every drop of water out but you'll get most of it. You can also take the pump unit free from it's base-depending on which model you have, rough it up with a file and use same adhesive to glue the base to the bottom.

We have a little Lund rigged with a bilge pump and an electric outboard with a large amp capacity battery in the bow. Works great as a little bass boat for short trips around the shoreline.

[TylerS]

If you allow a bilge pump to rattle around loose long enough it will have problems. Here's a trick I have used on a couple of small (14') boats. First I cut a 6"X6" square of good wood and then used JB Weld or Marine Tex to glue it to the boat bottom in the stern..low to the center line. Then mount the bilge pump to that block of wood. This will raise the pump a bit so you will not get every drop of water out but you'll get most of it. You can also take the pump unit free from it's base-depending on which model you have, rough it up with a file and use same adhesive to glue the base to the bottom.

We have a little Lund rigged with a bilge pump and an electric outboard with a large amp capacity battery in the bow. Works great as a little bass boat for short trips around the shoreline.

That's a great idea with the block of wood. I'll try that! I think I even have some plumber's epoxy in the basement.

[jentz]

On your bilge.glue a 1/2 inch 3inch by 3 inch or 4x4 piece of marine ply to the hull.then use SS screws to fis the bilge to the ply.I think permatex makes a marine glue (2 part epoxy) that works when wet.

[MNice]

A little dab of silicone on the feet of the pump, holds good enough so it won't bounce around and can be removed if needed.

[delcecchi]

3m 5200 is great for this kind of thing. But I am not as concerned as some. I had my alumacraft for 14 years with no problem. I didn't drive long distances on bad roads however.

[TylerS]

All good suggestions. Thanks again for the help.

Didn't work much on the boat yesterday. At the point now where I need to purchase material. Home with a sick kid today. If he's feeling up to it I may make a "man errand" run and pick up supplies. I also saw at the local sporting good's store that they make a three-slot rod holder that you can attach to boats. Would be great for mine considering there's virtually no storage, especially for rods.

I really need to take some pix for you guys...

[TylerS]

Well, it was my birthday today, so I'm hoping some of the money I got can be put toward the boat. First order of business is a new aerator, then if my buddy comes through I should have a mechanic shortly to look at the big motor. In the meanwhile, I'm going to rewire the trailer lights with new LEDs. I need to rip out all the old stuff first, and then grind down the rust spots so I have clean metal for grounds. Do I need to do the entire trailer this way, or just the spots ground wires will connect to?

[bobbymalone]

Just the spots the grounds connect to. Often one of the bolts that connects the light to the trailer serves as the ground.

Personally, I do not like using the frame as the ground and I run a separate wire. I have had bad luck with the connections getting rusty and the ground going bad.

Not sure how common it is, but a friend's trailer had the thing grounded through the connection of the trailer receiver to the ball on the towing vehicle's hitch. All sorts of problems with that set up that went away when I convinced him to use the white wire on the 4 pin plug for that purpose.

[TylerS]

That's the way it's rigged up now. The grounds were rusted solid, so before my dad towed it home he ran wires from the trailer lights all the way to the front of the trailer and connected them to the ground there. It works, but isn't a permanent solution (especially since he had to wrap them around the frame because he didn't have time to thread them through).