MDHA/MN DNR listening sessions

[PurpleFloyd]

Esox

Those are all good questions and I am glad you asked them.

Question...since we don't hunt hens, why don't we have hens all over the place? Shouldn't there be amazing populations of hens?

The answer is that we don't have the hen population we should have. Why? They are not making it through the winter. Why don't they make it through the winter? Because there isn't the thermal cover-food source relationship consistently across the landscape. As food sources run out or are farther away, the birds have to travel farther and farther to find the food...which increases their exposure to avian and ground predators as well as inclement weather.

Imagine your wife and you in your house and the fridge is empty...but across the road are some hamburgers...however there is a sniper in the tree ready to pick you off. But you gotta eat. You run across to get a hamburger and your wife gets taken out. What does that do to the population? Morbid example...but that is the reality of what is going on.

Properly designed thermal cover with adjacent food sources will allow birds to survive further north into the northern parts of the pheasant range or farther.

Grass WILL NOT get hens through the winter...so what good is nesting cover when there are no hens? "Dead hens don't lay eggs!"

Cattails are good winter cover if you have a mild winter. If you have a winter with blowing snow, which we usually do, then cattails become death traps. They get caught under the hard snow and can't get out or they get completely buried. There are many examples of rotting pheasants in the spring that were dead in cattails. Cattails that are protected by a well designed thermal woody cover planting are great...but cattails on their own can be death traps.

Trees are bad for birds if they are tall deciduous trees that provide perches for predators...such as maple, elm, cottonwood, etc. Spruce trees don't provide much for a perch. I hear that argument about trees all the time...but I have around 300 birds in my spruce planting right now? They are there because it protects them year after year after year...and I have food all around and within the spruce trees consisting of of food plots and feeders.

I don't agree that thermal cover with associated food sources won't reduce winter mortality of deer. Provide them thermal cover and food...they will survive...and actually often have higher body weights which provides many benefits. I have around 150 deer out at my place right now and they are all fat n fuzzy...I don't expect to see any dead deer.

Increasing deer populations and then hope for mild winters. If you get typical MN winters, then we can talk about carrying capacity again. You can look for your short term fix, but the long term fix is what takes care of the big problem that will continue to haunt us.

Perfect.

[PurpleFloyd]

I'm not a wildlife biologist, but do you think that you could prevent massive die-offs of pheasants by improving winter/thermal habitat?

[laker1]

Biggest thing for pheasants is ag land and good winter cover which is lacking in many areas. They also take a beating in snow storms. Just not quite adapted to the hard winters and blowing snow.

[brittman]

Where I pheasant hunt across much of Minnesota, the heavy winter cover takes over too much of the land area. Large woody swamps and cattail sloughs and not enough grass.

Agree there is a perception that woody cover (tree rows) is bad and it is if single row. Multi-row shelterbelts with a mix of food (plum, crab apple, apple) and heavy winter cover (evergreens) are a great idea and proven.

USF&WS can go all grass because their focus is ducks - but the DNR should be multi-specie focused. The DNR continues to acquire land or receive it via donation, but lacks the budget to maintain or improve. That is once great thing about the walk in land. It is fresh.

Where grass is key, single cedars are popping up as succession. Especially the DNR land in the prairie chicken areas NEED to be BURNED !!!!

There does need to be food plots too. December hunting can be somber at times when the land you are hunting is surrounded by black top soil.

Russian olive trees once a mainstay of western states habitat tree plots are now considered invasive and being removed at an alarming rate.

LandDr - you know exactly what I meant.

[brittman]

Western states carry more pheasants because

winters are slightly less severe (both total snow and total days below zero) and because large ranch yards carry 100s of bird through winter. Areas with larger number of working ranch yards have more pheasants, turkeys and deer.

spring/early summer is relatively drier.

and lots and lots of GRASS.

[laker1]

Pheasants have always done better in a drier climate.

[BLACKJACK]

USF&WS can go all grass because their focus is ducks - but the DNR should be multi-specie focused.

But but but - a lot of the land that the Fish and Wildlife Service now manages was donated to them by Pheasants Forever (and other wildlife groups like the MN Deer Hunters)!!!! PF is in bed with the F&W service and doesn't demand any accountability, any habitat for pheasants and other wildlife that hunters are looking for. Anything you do for pheasants is going to help deer.

They've all got prairie as their top priority - the F&W service, the DNR, even the Legacy funds - because thats "what the land used to be". But look around you, goto one of these big F&W areas and what do you see?? Black farm land and farmsteds, the prairie is gone.

When you have lots of grapes you make wine. Give the hunters what they want, put a 5 acre food plot and a 5 acre shelterbelt on every one of the F&W areas AND state DNR areas and we'd have twice as many pheasants (and more deer too). Instead our wildlife areas are getting turned into cow pastures.

Take a drive out in the country and ask yourself 'what is a pheasant going to eat'? Even if their is a big cattail or tree grove there is no food. The combines are so efficient nowadays that I challenge you to take and ice cream bucket and fill it up after they're done combining - and then they come along and till it!!! So as Landdr pointed out, any pheasant that is around has to travel farther and farther - and then gets eaten.

[LandDr]

I just noticed this last week when I came across a fundraiser to purchase a property that will then be donated to the USFW rather than the DNR. USFW will get it and then cut all of the brush down with their $750,000 brush cutter and there won't be any food plots or crop sharing.

Why are hunter dollars being used to purchase land to then donate it to an organization that manages for ONLY ONE recreational species? Why are pheasant and deer groups donating money and supporting this?

Those grazed WMAs and WPAs are a joke. They are selling it as "prairie management"...good luck with anything surviving out there. These groups are doing more harm than good...and unfortunately it is going to take a LONG TIME to recover from it.

[B. Amish]

managing the most endangered ecosystem in north america for the chineese chicken? that sounds like single species management.

[LandDr]

B. Amish...the buffalo are gone...face it. I would love to close my eyes and go back 200 years as well...or farther...but that is not reality.

But...no one said you can't have a piece of 30+ species prairie in the management plan. Seems like just about everyone on here is willing to compromise, except a few. Pheasant and Deer hunters just want a 5 acre well designed woody cover with a 5 acre food plot on each area...the rest can be a diversity of 30+ species "endangered ecosystem" stuff and maybe a few areas of thicker native prairie as well.

Deer and pheasant hunters are willing to compromise, so why aren't the prairie people willing to compromise? Their way or the highway? What is it?

[B. Amish]

is managing for prarie really managing against pheasants or deer? honestly?

[bowhunternw]

Now this is getting to be a good topic. This has been my one big complaint with the dnr or whatever organization is driving it, is the drive for natural prairie. Pheasants need some cover for winter and a good wind break with brush or evergreens are perfect. Yet they seem to be determined to tear down all brushy cover. That is what they are spending a lot of the legacy money on. A good mixture of cover would be beneficial to multiple species not just focusing on one. I hunt state land alot and the piece I hunt most, has a good mixture of grass land, woods, brush and swamp. For wildlife it holds good numbers of deer, sharptail grouse, ruffed grouse and bear. It would really stink if they come in and cleared all brush and woody cover.

They are doing the same thing with thier new rules for CRP is that they want all woody vegetation removed. I have seen a lot of native grass in the winter and it gets filled in with snow right away and provides zero winter cover. Sure have some natural prairie but a good mixture of cover would be better for wildlife.

[LandDr]

Seriously?

Put 50 pheasants out into a large chuck of diverse native prairie (mostly bunch grasses that fall versus a stand of switch grass that stays standing) with no conifers and no food.

How many of those birds would survive this winter or any typical MN winter?

Put 50 pheasants out into a large area with a well designed shelterbelt (shrub row to act as a living snow fence and conifers for thermal protection) and have food plots and feeders in and around it.

How many of those birds would survive this winter or any typical MN winter with this type of setup?

Do we really need to explain this any further B Amish?

[B. Amish]

pheasants aren't chained to the ground are they? can they move to find suitable cover?

bunch grasses don't fall over. do you need that explained further?

[LandDr]

Wouldn't it be nice to whistle a flute and have all of the pheasants follow up to the best winter cover and food. Pheasants unfortunately are "home bodies" and they don't move very far. Or when they finally figure out they need to move, it is often too late.

Instead of arguing about it, since we again had decreasing pheasant numbers and probably will again this year, just build the dang winter cover and food source if that is what the hunters want.

Bunch grasses fall...that is part of their seed distribution technique along with wind, animals, etc. Sure, there are a few sprigs that stay standing, but they start to lean over and will fall especially in a high diversity prairie that doesn't have any adjacent supporting plants to keep them erect.

We can agree to disagree

[B. Amish]

the pheasants decreased because everything got plowed up.

[hockeybc69]

At this point, who cares about pheasants. This is a topic about MDHA/DNR listening sessions.

DNR, MDHA Announce Deer Hunting Listening Session Dates

Deer hunters are invited to attend one of a series of listening sessions jointly hosted by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association (MDHA).

"We've been hearing that deer numbers are too low and this year's severe winter is exacerbating those concerns in many regions of the state," said Leslie McInenly, DNR big game program leader. "These listening sessions will give deer hunters and the general public an opportunity to communicate directly with DNR staff who make deer management decisions."

"Deer populations and health are important to MDHA members and all deer hunters," said Mark Johnson, MDHA executive director.

"We're pleased to be able to offer these meetings so people regardless of their affiliation or interest can express their opinions on deer populations."

All listening sessions will be from 7-9 p.m. Meetings are scheduled in:

* Brainerd - Wednesday, March 19, Central Lakes Community College, 501 West College Drive.

* Cambridge - Thursday, March 20, Anoka Ramsey Community College, 300 Spirit River Drive South, rooms G201 and G202.

* Bemidji - Monday, March 24, Bemidji High School, 2900 Division St. West, Lumberjack Room.

* Morris - Tuesday, March 25, University of Minnesota's West Central Research and Outreach Center, 46352 Minnesota Highway 329, Ag Country Auditorium.

* Nicollet - Thursday, March 2, Nicollet Conservation Club, 46045 471st Lane.

* Virginia - Tuesday, April 1, Mesabi Range College, 1001 Chestnut St. West, auditorium.

Online comments also will be accepted beginning Wednesday, March 19, atwww.mndnr.gov/deer.

[laker1]

I think we should be questioning their population modeling,well intended but it usually over estimates the fall population with to many variables. You can set your population goals,but if estimates are too high,your end result will be a lower population.

[Jameson]

Sure, the model itself should always be questioned and updated with new variables. The bigger problem at this time is that the model designers (Marret Grund primarily) has stated that the model is only good for 4-5 years and then it should be re-calibrated with areal surveys at that time, and that many of our deer permit areas haven't been re-calibrated for 10 years. Actually they never have been re-calibrated since the model was originally put into use in some areas, so we don't even really know how well the model works.

[mntatonka]

Sure, the model itself should always be questioned and updated with new variables. The bigger problem at this time is that the model designers (Marret Grund primarily) has stated that the model is only good for 4-5 years and then it should be re-calibrated with areal surveys at that time, and that many of our deer permit areas haven't been re-calibrated for 10 years. Actually they never have been re-calibrated since the model was originally put into use in some areas, so we don't even really know how well the model works.

That sounds like Marret's fault. Maybe he needs to be replaced with someone that will do their job (and for less money)

[BLACKJACK]

At this point, who cares about pheasants. This is a topic about MDHA/DNR listening sessions.

Because a big component of deer populations is habitat, and in the southern 2/3 of the state, the pheasant range, if you improve pheasant habitat, the deer will also be right there. And I would guess that there are 10 times as many PF chapters (and members) as there are deer chapters. Not that most hunters won't hunt both.

Improve pheasant habitat and it will help deer.

[Jameson]

That sounds like Marret's fault. Maybe he needs to be replaced with someone that will do their job (and for less money)

You likely know more about it than I, but I think it would be Marret's bosses fault, Leslie M. and Lou C. The scientist (Marret) only supplied the formula, it is up to the people using it to follow directions.

[laker1]

I only know that looking in hindsight 3-5 years after the original population estimate,it the estimate was always too high by the DNR on their own admission, at least in the northern half of the state where I looked at their update findings.

Not blaming anyone it is just time to change. Same formula used in much of the country and many states are modifying it or abandoning it.

[smsmith]

DNR, MDHA Announce Deer Hunting Listening Session Dates

Deer hunters are invited to attend one of a series of listening sessions jointly hosted by the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources and the Minnesota Deer Hunters Association (MDHA).

"We've been hearing that deer numbers are too low and this year's severe winter is exacerbating those concerns in many regions of the state," said Leslie McInenly, DNR big game program leader. "These listening sessions will give deer hunters and the general public an opportunity to communicate directly with DNR staff who make deer management decisions."

"Deer populations and health are important to MDHA members and all deer hunters," said Mark Johnson, MDHA executive director.

"We're pleased to be able to offer these meetings so people regardless of their affiliation or interest can express their opinions on deer populations."

All listening sessions will be from 7-9 p.m. Meetings are scheduled in:

* Brainerd - Wednesday, March 19, Central Lakes Community College, 501 West College Drive.

* Cambridge - Thursday, March 20, Anoka Ramsey Community College, 300 Spirit River Drive South, rooms G201 and G202.

* Bemidji - Monday, March 24, Bemidji High School, 2900 Division St. West, Lumberjack Room.

* Morris - Tuesday, March 25, University of Minnesota's West Central Research and Outreach Center, 46352 Minnesota Highway 329, Ag Country Auditorium.

* Nicollet - Thursday, March 27, Nicollet Conservation Club, 46045 471st Lane.

* Virginia - Tuesday, April 1, Mesabi Range College, 1001 Chestnut St. West, auditorium.

Online comments also will be accepted beginning Wednesday, March 19, atwww.mndnr.gov/deer.

Sure hope to see lots of butts in seats at Brainerd next Tuesday. You don't have to speak if you don't want to, but BEING THERE is important. No turnout = DNR saying "deer hunters must not be that upset, they didn't show up to express their concerns" Already happened with the SE meetings

[laker1]

I just hope the meetings is a discussion and not by a few a shouting match. Both sides really want to get it right. Nature is always changing as is are landscape with more and more people and framented ecosystems.

Estimates are for MINNESOTA human population to double in 30 some years.

A place to hunt is going to change and the land can produce only so many deer. As we get more hunters there will be years the success rate has to drop.