Electric breaker box question

[Pinusbanksiana]

Our house had an electric dryer and an electric stove when we purchased it. I have since switched to liquid propane. Now as I renovate the remainder of the house I find I need more electric runs. The breaker box has these slots just sitting there and not used. How do I go about replacing them with 4 separate 15 or 20 amp breakers? Do I need to shut the power off at the service first, then install the now breakers?

[BobT]

If you're asking this question my first impression is to say, Yes!!!!

[Bobby Bass]

If you don't feel comfortable working in a hot box by all means go ahead and turn off the main breaker. Pull your breakers and disconnect the wire. I would pull the wires out of the box, coil them and label them as to what they were used for, stove, dryer. I would do this because the next owner down the road may want to reinstall the 220 circuits. Go ahead and install your four replacement breakers or leave the slots open till you are ready. Depending on who installed the breakers in the panel I would look at moving breakers from the lower end of the panel up to fill in the spots where the 220 was. That would leave me a clean panel with no missing slots in the cover to the panel. Then you would just add on to the bottom as needed, unless you are using the 220 slots because you have no room for expansion?

[Pinusbanksiana]

Yes I need room for expansion. I built a dormer that will be a new bathroom and I am sure it needs it's own run. And a kitchen remodel is in the works. The current one has a micro wave in line, I think it needs it's own run. Another option is to just put in a new panel. I am new to wiring, but it seems pretty simple. All the new wire I am stretching is 12-2. I think I understand how to shut off at the meter, as I don't want to get zapped.

[frazwood]

When I do this, I shut off the main breaker at the top of my panel.

Let me strongly advise you to hire an electrician to do this work for you. If you are asking these questions, it suggests that you don't know what you are doing. This means: (1) you have a high likelihood that you will electrocute yourself while doing the work, and (2) you will do the work wrong, which could lead to disastrous results when it is in use (i.e., you'll burn down your house).

If you insist on doing this yourself, I recommend that you go to a big box store and get a really good manual on how to do wiring... and read it over and over again until you are ABSOLUTELY SURE that you know what you are doing.

[Pinusbanksiana]

So there is a main breaker on top? I'll look tonight. I can't see this being that difficult. Cut the power, pull out the two 220 amp breakers, put in 4 20 amp breakers, attach the run of pulled wires to the 20 amp breakers, through the main breaker. Test it out.

If I was going to put in a new breaker panel I would probably get some help because I am sure they can do it twice as fast and neater than I would. I still may.

[Bobby Bass]

After reading your reply it does sound like you are a complete novice to this and you should really at the very least find someone who has some experience. If you didn't know you had a main breaker to your panel you are in need of some help. Example: when you take the breakers out you really do take the breakers out, you disengage them from the panel and when they are out that is when you take the wires off the breaker, you don't take the wires off while the breaker is still connected to the box. Same goes for installing the new breakers, wires go on first then the breaker is snapped in. You also have grounds to install. Book reading is good but this is something that can seriously injure you if you don't know what you are doing and has the potential to do damage down the road if not done correctly. No bad rap on you just sounds like this is something you may need some help with not something that a question on a board someone can answer for you. As for main panel code might very well require you to have a Master do that.

[Whoaru99]

So there is a main breaker on top? I'll look tonight. I can't see this being that difficult. Cut the power, pull out the two 220 amp breakers, put in 4 20 amp breakers, attach the run of pulled wires to the 20 amp breakers, through the main breaker. Test it out.

If I was going to put in a new breaker panel I would probably get some help because I am sure they can do it twice as fast and neater than I would. I still may.

There are a lot of details to getting the wiring in correctly. Installing breakers and connecting the wires to them is the easy part.

Are you familiar with how the wires must be run, where they must be stapled/fastened, receptacle spacing/layout, whether or not you must use arc fault or gfi breakers, etc. etc. etc.?

[BobT]

I strongly agree with the sentiment expressed so far. Residential wiring is a lot more involved than I think you understand. There are specific rules that must be followed particularly with wiring bathrooms, kitchens, and small appliance circuits. Pull a permit, file the appropriate affidavit, and get inspected. Failure to do this could result in loss of fire protection liability by your insurance company in the event it is determined that your circuit was the cause of a fire. Additionally, if you don't get it done and the authority having jurisdiction finds out about it, you will be forced to expose the circuit for inspection or face power shut off, not to mention potential fines.

[Pinusbanksiana]

Thanks for your concern, I'll be fine. I didn't have any trouble when I ran the service line from the meter to the panel. It was overhead, I replaced it with underground. If I have questions, I'll read up on it.

[Down Deep]

This is how a true do-it your-selfer is born. What I know about electric is there is a white wire and a black wire---don't touch either one and let someone else do it. I'll nail the boards together.

[dillon]

You are aware that even when the main breaker is off, there are "hot" wires coming into the panel....right?

[NoWiser]

What you are looking at doing is completely legal, so long as you pull a permit and get the required inspections, and do it yourself without help from anyone. I was doing some work on my house and mentioned to the inspector that I may have a buddy come and help me pull some wires and he chewed me out. You aren't allowed any help whatsoever.

Make sure you get the permit and inspections. Just the piece of mind you will have after someone comes and looks over your work will be worth it. Not only that but if you get caught after it's covered up, you will have a real mess on your hands. The permit is pretty cheap.

As far as working on the panel, could you have your power company come and pull the meter for you while you are working in there? That would be the safest option if you are uneasy. I installed a main shutoff next to my meter so that I can cut all power to the house when I am working on the panel. Better safe than sorry.

[Pinusbanksiana]

I shut the power from my meter myself last time. No problems. I don't need a permit to replace breakers in my panel.

[NoWiser]

Sounds like you are good to go. I thought you were adding some circuits, in which case you would need a permit.

Good luck!

[rundrave]

I don't need a permit to replace breakers in my panel.

[BobT]

It were me I would get the permit, its just as much a benefit for you and your own safety to get it inspected as it is for anyone who may buy your house in the future.

rundrave makes a good point. If I were looking to buy a new home and was unable to locate the inspection stickers for what appeared to be new circuits, I might request inspection before purchasing just so I don't run into trouble somewhere down the road.

The OP also mentioned that he has pulled the meter himself before. I assume this was done with permission from the power supplier? If you cut the lock off the panel without permission, you could face accusations of theft.

[Whoaru99]

The OP also mentioned that he has pulled the meter himself before. I assume this was done with permission from the power supplier? If you cut the lock off the panel without permission, you could face accusations of theft.

Yeah, the Municipal electric guys here didn't like that too much when I did it some years back. Didn't think it was any big deal but they did.

One guy just kept on and on about it until I finally raised my voice and said, "LOOK, I got it...the FIRST time, OK?".

[low277]

Yes, you can wire pretty much anything in your primary dwelling. If you are adding a new circuit or extending a existing circuit it is required to file an electrical inspection request.

If you check with your local electrical inspector before you start the project they are usually pretty helpful and will probably give you some advise. If you fail to get a permit and the inspector happens to see an addition taking place he may just stop in to see what is happening, then it will go badly.

I was a electrical inspector for a few years and I dealt with homeowners every week that where doing their own work. Some where better than others but the key is to contact your local inspector early.

Also it is not a good idea to cut the seal on a meter socket without checking with the electric utility first. They usually take it pretty serious.

[efgh]

Also if you did rewire a few circuts without a permit and a fire developed and was traced back to your added circuts by a fire inspector your insurance company would probley balk on paying for fire damage. This happened to a person right around the corner from me.

[Pinusbanksiana]

I talked to the electric co. before I cliped the seal. They were pretty cool about it. I actually broke one of the plastic lugs in half as I was trying to remove it, so they had to come out and replace it for me on a weekend. I didn't even get billed for it, as it wasn't really my fault. The bolt was super tight and the thing just split. doesn't hurt I am good friends with the service boss.