Ice House Battery Charging?

[hunter292]

I have really been thinking about building a permanent ice house on a crank down system this summer and I was wondering if it is okay to charger a deep cycle battery while it is under load without wrecking the battery. I have one of the inverter generators so its quiet and was thinking I could bring that onto the ice on a weekend trip and get an on board charger to charge up the batteries. Thanks in advance!!

[Whoaru99]

The converter chargers like for campers are fine for supplying the load while charging the batteries.

However, something like an onboard charger you'd use in your boat typically isn't too happy to try to be a power supply while also trying to charge the battery. It may work for small loads but it's not the best choice and may cause the batteries to be improperly charged while simultaneously trying to supply the house load.

In other words, something like this is what you want: http://www.americanrvcompany.com/Progres...CFeg-MgodFl8Aow

Not something like this: http://sepbatteries.com/prosport-12?gclid=CIbv3bSlk7wCFdBcMgodOCkASQ

[MNfan]

Been using an on-board charger for two years same battery still going strong always bring a spare but have not needed.

Andy

[hunter292]

Thank for the input! I haven't decided if I want to build one or not yet but I've been looking into a lot of things trying to get an idea of how much it'll cost or if I should just buy one made. I think it would be fun to build one though!

[Big Dave2]

Been using an on-board charger for two years same battery still going strong always bring a spare but have not needed.

Andy

Which on-board charger are you using?

[cold one sd]

Been using an onboard charger with the same batteries since 2007 in my wheelhouse. I run an inverter generator at times while on the ice to give the batteries a charge.

[Redlineracer12]

I don't run a deep cycle for this reason, I just use a truck sized AGM battery because it's basically getting charged all the time like a vehicle would be. I use one of the inverter/converters that you find in RVs.

[BobT]

Don't forget one thing. If the batteries are not a full charge, you will risk freezing between uses.

If you charger is charging but the load is more than it can handle, you will be discharging your batteries to some degree while using them. Unless you allow the charger adequate time to return the batteries to full charge before you shut it down, your batteries will be left in a partial charge state. For example, let's say you are running sonar, lights, maybe a 12v. television and the total load is 30A but your charger can only deliver 20A. In this scenario you will be discharging your batteries as much as 10A per hour of use. It will take time to recharge the battery again after turning off the loads.

Here's a chart to help explain.

[Whoaru99]

Be sure you're asking the right question here folks...

Nothing wrong using an on-board charger to charge your wheelhouse batteries IF you are not asking the charger to power the house at the same time.

However, if you want house power and battery charging at the same time then get a RV/camper converter/charger.

One can pound nails with a Crescent wrench, but for the same/similar price you can get the right tool for the job.

[BobT]

Be sure you're asking the right question here folks...

Nothing wrong using an on-board charger to charge your wheelhouse batteries IF you are not asking the charger to power the house at the same time.

However, if you want house power and battery charging at the same time then get a RV/camper converter/charger.

One can pound nails with a Crescent wrench, but for the same/similar price you can get the right tool for the job.

I agree with this. On-board chargers are not designed to supply active loads. They have special electronic circuitry that determines what charging mode to use for recharging the batteries depending on the state of discharge. I can see how applying an active load could confuse the charger and potentially be damaging to the batteries or the charger using them this way.

[cold one sd]

The only thing that is 12V in my wheelhouse is 2 computer fans and 2 RV light fixtures with LED bulbs. Probably why I haven't had problems all those years. I also use AGM batteries.

[SM1]

I asked the same question a few weeks back on the best way to power the house. Instead of a on board charger, which I have in my boat and love, I went with a converter instead. I have two group 27's hooked in parrelell and will run the Honda 2000 to power the house and top off the batteries during the day. Then can turn off the generator and the system automatically switches to 12v from the batteries.

The converter charges the batteries, but likely at a slow rate. I just threw in a regular batt charger in the event I need a quicker charge.

In short, I went with a converter instead of an on board charger and am quite happy I did.

[aanderud]

The converter charges the batteries, but likely at a slow rate. I just threw in a regular batt charger in the event I need a quicker charge.

It may charge faster than you think, depending on the model you bought. The converter linked to way toward the top of this thread charges pretty fast.. The manual says a 125 amp battery will be charged to 90% capacity in 8 hours, or 100% in 11 hours. So, a bit more than 10 amps on average, which is as fast as you really want to charge a battery anyway. I guess you could go to 20 amps or something if you're in a hurry using another charger, but I think you normally don't want to go TOO high on the current.

[BobT]

It may charge faster than you think, depending on the model you bought. The converter linked to way toward the top of this thread charges pretty fast.. The manual says a 125 amp battery will be charged to 90% capacity in 8 hours, or 100% in 11 hours. So, a bit more than 10 amps on average, which is as fast as you really want to charge a battery anyway. I guess you could go to 20 amps or something if you're in a hurry using another charger, but I think you normally don't want to go TOO high on the current.

That depends on how the current is being controlled. My on-board charger in my boat uses multi-stage charging. Here's how it works.

1. Charging stage:

The charger will use all of its available charging amps (as controlled by temperature) until the output voltage is raised to 14.6VDC. Mine is a 20A charger. When a battery (load) has a low resistance, and amp draw is high, the charger will not be able to output the full voltage so it is only when the battery charge reaches a high enough resistance that the voltage will eventually climb to the 14.6 volt level. This is demonstrated by Ohm's law where volts = amps x resistance.

2. Conditioning stage:

The charger will hold the voltage at 14.6VDC to complete the charging process while limiting the current to safe levels.

3. Maintain stage:

Once the battery reaches full charge the charger goes into a maintenance phase where the voltage drops and is maintained at 13.4VDC.

[aanderud]

That depends on how the current is being controlled. My on-board charger in my boat uses multi-stage charging.

No kidding. Almost all battery chargers use some form of intelligent current limiting for various stages, so you can't just divide the amp hour reserve capacity of the battery by some constant number and get a charge time. Doesn't change the facts presented in my post, which you quoted. I said a bit more than 10 amps "on average" but notice I didn't say "constant". If you charged 125 amp hours in 11 hours, that is an accurate statement. It might be 20 amps for the first 3 hours, then 5 amps for the next 5 hours, than only 2 amps thereafter, for all I know.

Regardless, there are hardly any chargers that I know of which will provide more than 20 amps even on the initial 'bulk' stage or whatever they choose to call it. It's generally frowned upon to charge a deep cycle any faster than that. They will start around that 10 to 20 amp range, and decrease from there. The variability of the charge rate is known by most, which is why I looked in the manual to get the charging times I stated rather than dividing the amp-hour capacity by some constant.

[SM1]

I put in a WFCO 8725. This has a 3 stage charging component to it but the charging stages are described in volts. I'm not sure how each stage equates to amps.

[BLACKJACK]

I agree with this. On-board chargers are not designed to supply active loads. They have special electronic circuitry that determines what charging mode to use for recharging the batteries depending on the state of discharge. I can see how applying an active load could confuse the charger and potentially be damaging to the batteries or the charger using them this way.

I installed the Minnkota MK315 charger in my fish house, hooked up to three batteries, one runs the furnace, one runs the 12 volt lights and 12 volt TV, and the third battery is a spare. Works fine for one night trips, plug in when I get home, is charged when I go again.

According to this post, I will have problems if I plug into a generator while I'm on the ice, using the batteries AND charging at the same time - is that true?

[BobT]

I installed the Minnkota MK315 charger in my fish house, hooked up to three batteries, one runs the furnace, one runs the 12 volt lights and 12 volt TV, and the third battery is a spare. Works fine for one night trips, plug in when I get home, is charged when I go again.

According to this post, I will have problems if I plug into a generator while I'm on the ice, using the batteries AND charging at the same time - is that true?

I only stated that I could understand how this might not be a good thing. I can't honestly say with certainty but with the smart electronics that some of these chargers employ, I could see where it might confuse the charger into doing things "out of sync" with normal. These chargers are measuring current draw and voltage drop to determine what to do and in the case of my charger even tell me when a battery is defective. A battery that is also supplying a load could look to the charger like a shorted battery. I could be wrong and it won't make any difference but I personally wouldn't take the risk.

[BLACKJACK]

Bump - anybody else know whether it would cause problems charging a battery and using it at the same time?? Never considered that when I bought he Minnkota charger...

[clearwaterguy]

All good stuff but all I have done for years is to charge my batteries (2 in parallel) with jumper cables with a plug on one end. I have a receptacle on the exterior of the house. Depending on either ice or weather conditions, I charge off my truck, atv or snowmobile. Takes some fuel but beats lugging around a generator. I run a tv, dvr, lights and computer fans. I give the batteries a charge before I leave for the day. If I'm out for the day and running the tv and dvr I'll charge for 15 minutes or so every hour. Current batteries are about 5 years old and going strong. Have never had a problem with the truck, atv or sled equipment. Just seems like a simple solution to me.

[waligators]

Heres my situation- Just bought a house the other day that is wired for 12v and 110. The guy that owned it before me just used a car battery charger powered by a generator to charge his 12v battery while under load, powering the forced air furnace. House has 110 lights so i could use those while the generator is running. Is this alright to do or am i possibly risking frying my battery/furnace? If it could wreck something doing it this way, what should i buy to get it working correctly? Not a dummy when it comes to wiring, i just don't want any troubles out on the ice...

[JRB fishing]

I have 2 batteries in my house with a onboard charger like i have in my boat and have had no problems. I dont have a forced air furnace. My furnace does not need any power to run, that is what i wanted so i would not have to worry about having power and staying warm. I just have my charger plugged in to a outlet by the batteries and when i plug my generator in to the house it charges both batteries. I have both 12volt and 110 lights in my house and i us the 110 lights when i have generator running and switch to 12volt when i dont run it. I will have generator running during the day to watch tv and by the time i go to bed both batteries are charged. Has worked for 6 years.

[walleyewiz0212]

I just built a house. I have a converter that charges my house battery for all 12 volt. I also have a battery for my hydraulic frame which is charged by an on board charger whenever the generator is running. I run a generator 80% of the time. Haven't had an issue yet.

[waligators]

Heres my situation- Just bought a house the other day that is wired for 12v and 110. The guy that owned it before me just used a car battery charger powered by a generator to charge his 12v battery while under load, powering the forced air furnace. House has 110 lights so i could use those while the generator is running. Is this alright to do or am i possibly risking frying my battery/furnace? If it could wreck something doing it this way, what should i buy to get it working correctly? Not a dummy when it comes to wiring, i just don't want any troubles out on the ice...

Anybody have a answer for this?

[aczr2k]

I don't see why it would hurt anything, the furnace is still only seeing 12v. There is no connection between the 110 and 12v. Plus the guy that had it before you didn't seem to have any issues.