deer density

[smsmith]

While this is true, the people pushing MDDI are also seeking an awful lot of support from groups that ARE pushing APR and party hunting ban. Don't get me wrong, I think the idea behind MDDI is sound, I just don't know that it's being pushed in a positive way when things like "Push comes to shove on APR's you're gonna need folks to have your back" are posted by MDDI supporters.

As far as I'm concerned, APR and cross-tagging ban should either go statewide or be eliminated, regardless of deer populations. Why should those of us in Zone 3 be the only ones who get to enjoy such regulations?

MDDI was seeking support from EVERY deer group. We wanted this to be unified push. Yes, we wanted support from MWA....we also want support from MDHA, QDMA, and MBI. That was the point...if every major "player" in the state was giving the same message it would be more powerful.

Zone 3 is very different than zone 1 and 2. APRs and crosstagging are separate issues in my mind. While they were both implemented in the SE, they aren't necessarily mutually inclusive or exclusive. I'd also add that if (big if) zone 1 were to add APR units the rules there would likely have to be 3 on one side rather than 4. A "one size fits all" approach with APRs isn't going to work.

I'll shut up here. If anybody would like information on MDDI I can be contacted via email [email protected]

[SmellEsox]

While this is true, the people pushing MDDI are also seeking an awful lot of support from groups that ARE pushing APR and party hunting ban. Don't get me wrong, I think the idea behind MDDI is sound, I just don't know that it's being pushed in a positive way when things like "Push comes to shove on APR's you're gonna need folks to have your back" are posted by MDDI supporters.

As far as I'm concerned, APR and cross-tagging ban should either go statewide or be eliminated, regardless of deer populations. Why should those of us in Zone 3 be the only ones who get to enjoy such regulations?

It's a tough one eh? You can have more deer and the threat of future APR, or you can have way fewer deer and shoot whatever you want (which is nothing for a lot of hunters).

[jentz]

Myself I believe these citizen deer management groups are shooting for what the musky group has done.Which is take control with the few outweighing the many.get a foot in the door like lake associations,Push out the general public and have a louder voice with lobbying the DNR.Eventually being the go to group!

[SmellEsox]

Myself I believe these citizen deer management groups are shooting for what the musky group has done.Which is take control with the few outweighing the many.get a foot in the door like lake associations,Push out the general public and have a louder voice with lobbying the DNR.Eventually being the go to group!

Do you not want more deer? That's what they are pushing for.

[jentz]

Better hunters will find deer,They spend some time looking.They dont leave home 2 weekends a year and expect to fill tags.

[smsmith]

Better hunters will find deer,They spend some time looking.They dont leave home 2 weekends a year and expect to fill tags.

So that pretty much leaves out getting youngsters or new folks involved in the sport. Pretty much leaves out the vast majority of the average Joe deer hunters too.

Going out and shooting a doe shouldn't require a "dedicated" hunter. Going out and shooting a doe shouldn't require guys micro managing their parcels of land. Going out and shooting a doe should be relatively easy to do so that youngsters and new hunters get "hooked" on the activity. Pretty tough sell to a teenager to spend 10 hours in the woods and see nothing.

[mntatonka]

So that pretty much leaves out getting youngsters or new folks involved in the sport. Pretty much leaves out the vast majority of the average Joe deer hunters too.

Going out and shooting a doe shouldn't require a "dedicated" hunter. Going out and shooting a doe shouldn't require guys micro managing their parcels of land. Going out and shooting a doe should be relatively easy to do so that youngsters and new hunters get "hooked" on the activity. Pretty tough sell to a teenager to spend 10 hours in the woods and see nothing.

So get the kid out of the treestand and get walking. Go find the deer. Do a deer drive. Make the deer move.

I know as a kid I hated sitting and waiting for a deer to walk by, that's why I didn't bow hunt much. I loved doing drives, or if I was by myself doing a walk to find a deer to shoot.

[DaveT]

Stu,

You've got the message out there, you're just beating your head against the wall with some of these guys. Nothing you say will change their opinion. Don't take it personally, just go on about your mission.

McLovin

[certified jumbo]

DaveT is correct. To add to that I would say you are going to have lots of support for this initiative. You will get lots more as word grows.

[Getanet]

I think it's instructive for the MDDI to know how important it is to stay focused on their core mission. You'll get a lot of support if the only goal is to increase the deer population and provide more opportunity for hunter success. There aren't too many who wouldn't support that. Stray from that focus, and then you drive a wedge between hunters.

[smsmith]

So get the kid out of the treestand and get walking. Go find the deer. Do a deer drive. Make the deer move.

I know as a kid I hated sitting and waiting for a deer to walk by, that's why I didn't bow hunt much. I loved doing drives, or if I was by myself doing a walk to find a deer to shoot.

I said nothing about sitting in a treestand, I said spending 10 hours in the woods. That would obviously include using a stand, driving, whatever. If a kid has a 40 acre chunk to walk on and does so...and no deer...then what? Can't push a 40 all day every day in an attempt to see a deer. With the current deer densities where I am (10 dpsm) there is .016 adult deer per acre. 40 acres x .016 = .64 adult deer. Less than a deer every 40 acres. Obviously deer aren't distributed evenly over the landscape, but to think a guy needs to own almost 70 acres with at least some decent habitat/cover to have an adult deer around....kind of ridiculous.

[smsmith]

I think it's instructive for the MDDI to know how important it is to stay focused on their core mission. You'll get a lot of support if the only goal is to increase the deer population and provide more opportunity for hunter success. There aren't too many who wouldn't support that. Stray from that focus, and then you drive a wedge between hunters.

That IS the focus. That and improving the public stakeholder process so we don't end up in this situation again.

[hockeybc69]

Quote:

I think it's instructive for the MDDI to know how important it is to stay focused on their core mission. You'll get a lot of support if the only goal is to increase the deer population and provide more opportunity for hunter success. There aren't too many who wouldn't support that. Stray from that focus, and then you drive a wedge between hunters.

Right on.

[SmellEsox]

Better hunters will find deer,They spend some time looking.They dont leave home 2 weekends a year and expect to fill tags.

What happens when a lot of very good hunters aren't getting deer anymore?

[jentz]

I would think it would be low deer numbers.Why do some think deer are so easy to take and expect at least one a year.Then say, lets manage for large bucks so I can brag of a wall hanger.When they can hardly see does let alone take one?ego??

[smsmith]

Total deer kill 2003 - 290,525

2004 - 260,604

2005 - 255,736

2006 - 270,778

2007 - 260,434

2008 - 221,837

2009 - 194,186

2010 - 207,313

2011 - 192,331

2012 - 186,634

2013 - 164,550

[Getanet]

What happens when a lot of very good hunters aren't getting deer anymore?

Blame party hunting, hunting during the rut, or people shooting a 6 pointer before they could shoot it as an 8 pointer?

On a serious note, the people who complain about MN being one of the worst states in the nation for hunting typically cite Iowa, WI, or Missouri as meccas for deer hunting and the blue print for how a herd should be managed. But I've pasted some links to news articles from this year, and it seems hunters in those states don't like their hunting either. Perhaps we're just at the bottom of a natural cycle? Or perhaps hunters like to complain more than old women?

Missouri:

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/04/4729843/missouri-deer-hunting-reaches.html#storylink=cpy

Is there trouble in paradise? Missouri deer hunters certainly think so. They remember days when they could pick and choose the deer they wanted to shoot. Now, they’re lucky just to see deer. Any deer, let alone a big buck

Iowa:

http://amestrib.com/sports/outdoors/60-y...h.ZaQNZbFk.dpuf

It’s true: the state’s population appears to be shrinking, as evidenced by seven consecutive years of smaller harvests

Wisconsin

http://lacrossetribune.com/news/local/de...1a4bcf887a.html

Deer harvest down 7 percent in Wisconsin

[mntatonka]

Getanet has a point, and a good one if you think about it.

In the 70's there weren't many deer.

In the 80's there were lots of deer (relatively speaking).

In the 90's there weren't many deer.

In the 2000's there were lots of deer.

Now were in the 2010's, and what do you know, there's not many deer.

Given that much of deer biology (rut cycle especially) is driven by the sun and the moon, it's entirely possible that deer population swings follow the sun's own 11-year cycle. I'd be curious to see if there's any correlation between the two.

[smsmith]

[ Perhaps we're just at the bottom of a natural cycle? Or perhaps hunters like to complain more than old women?

Or...perhaps there is a disturbing trend going on with deer management?

[laker1]

There is some point with land constantly being sub divided,hunter numbers increasing even tho slowly. There will be diminishing returns. The average hunter is not going to get a deer every year. Even including some people shooting more than 1 deer,40% kill is good. We can and should increase the number of deer per square mile,but I see from some messages here and experience,some expect to see a deer the first 10 minutes and be done hunting.

Also ask the people how many deer or bucks they see on their game cam at night. Quite a few. But nothing in the day time.

[smsmith]

According to the MN DNR...31% of firearm hunters were "successful" in 2012. 52% of the deer killed were antlered bucks.

[Jameson]

...Not everyone thinks the hunting is bad now.If anything we are seeing the best hunting we have ever had in my 30 plus years of hunting. Next year should be better than this year. We "sacrificed" for decades by mandates that required us to use a shotgun and only have 2 days to fill a tag. How do you suppose the success rate of a bow hunter would look if they had to fill their tag in 2 days? At least it is 9 days now and that does give us a reason to be more selective which is good, but if Bow hunters had the same 9 day season my guess is they might hunt differently or not be quite as selective either. The same can be said for buying multiple licenses. If you were limited to hunting only one season then I would guess fewer guys would let deer pass. Not all, but some....

Answer my question first. Is it me that you were talking about in your other post?

[Getanet]

52% of the deer killed were antlered bucks.

Amazingly, 37% of those were shot by Little Johnny from Nonteepicals little story earlier.

But seriously, what percentage of the total harvest should be made up of antlered bucks according to the experts? Approximately 50% seems about what I would expect considering certain areas restrict doe tags.

[hockeybc69]

Why does this keep getting twisted to big bucks??

This is about population of deer. Nothing more.

[smsmith]

Amazingly, 37% of those were shot by Little Johnny from Nonteepicals little story earlier.

But seriously, what percentage of the total harvest should be made up of antlered bucks according to the experts? Approximately 50% seems about what I would expect considering certain areas restrict doe tags.

In a state with a well managed deer herd, most deer harvested annually are adult does with adult bucks being second in total percentage.