Copper bullets?

[BobT]

I was reading in this month's "Conservation Volunteer" an article about copper bullets. According to the article, based on research done the evidence does support the possibility that eagles consuming the remains of gutted out deer could be ingesting fragments of lead left behind by the bullets we use. Research also indicates that there is a pretty good chance that we could be ingesting small amounts of lead in the meat we process even though we may cut away damaged meat because the lead fragments found in X-Rays of test animals showed that these fragments scatter up to 15" from the actual wound.

The article talked about one possible solution would be to switch to copper bullets. The article indicated that copper bullets provide equivalent knock down power and controlled expansion but with less shattering. It also indicated that making the switch one should drop to a lower weight bullet because copper is less dense than lead and in order to get the same weight the bullet needs to be longer. So a bullet of the same length will be somewhat lighter. This would actually make it nicer to shoot.

Just wondering what your thoughts are about copper bullets for our rifles.

[fivebucks]

I saw the article also and my wife urged me to switch. I picked up some Barnes Vortex for my 30-06 and stayed at 150 grain bullets. I went to the range and got my best pattern ever. I did read that copper is a little more accurate than the Core-lok I was using. They are over double the price of Remington Core-Lok so it does keep pre-season shooting down to just a few bullets.

[NoWiser]

I've started using copper bullets and think they are the "cat's pajamas". I shot my moose two years ago with a 140 grain Barnes TSX out of my 270 WSM at right around 300 yards. I put two into the vitals, one was a pass through and one was just under the skin on the far side. The moose went about 40 yards. The recovered bullet was 139.8 grains. My dad shot his moose last year at about 90 yards with the same caliber and bullet with similar results. I also got a 240 lb dressed whitetail with the same 140 grain round and dropped it in its tracks with a shot to the vitals. I've never seen a deer go down like that! Entrance hole like a pencil, exit hole like a golfball. Perfect.

Last year I switched to 130 grain Barness TTSX because I worked up a load that was insanely accurate. Shot my wolf with them (size of a small deer) and dropped it in its tracks. I also got a muley buck last year right through vitals with that load and it would have gone about 30 yards if it wouldn't have fallen down a giant ravine. It had the same results.....pencil size entrance and golfball size exit.

I'm a believer for sure. I don't think I will ever shoot a lead bullet again.

I recently worked up some 110 grain Barnes loads with my cousin who also shoots a 270 WSM. He wanted something that wouldn't be too hard for his girlfriend to shoot. I can't wait to see what those do on a deer. I'm guessing he'll be very happy with the results!!

[fr0sty]

I switched to copper bullets last year. The deer I shot in 2011 using a 130 grain federal blue box round left no blood trail. The bullet went in and never exited. The deer didn't go far, but I didn't like the fact that there wasn't a blood trail.

I used a 130 federal tsx last year. I think that's what it was called. It was the all copper barnes bullet. Worked great.

Here's the hole it made on the near side.

[flipper]

I think there are more bald eagles killed by wind generators than by ingesting lead.

I make my own lead bullets for my muzzleloaders and at the speed I shoot them at there is very little if any fragmentation. I hope the greenies don't ruin this sport for me. Designing and casting my own bullets is a big part of the hunt for me. At the very least, if and when more lead restricting legislation comes, I would hope they differentiate between bullets shot at low muzzleloader velocities and those whiz bang fragmenting bullets shot out of higher power rifles.

[Jmnhunter]

the only drawback i've read about copper, back when they first came out, is the cleaning of the barrels, any big difference or has that been improved?

[TruthWalleyes]

Not really concerned with eagles and lead, but i switched away from powerbelts this year as well to a copper Barnes T-EZ and MZ 50cal. I wanted a lighter bullet with good balistics that also is said to expand and stay intact. I used to shoot the platinum powerbelts and i don't think i was getting any expansion at all.

[Gus]

Our group switched to copper after the big stink a few years ago. I wasn't crazy about the idea but went with the wishes of our majority since we process as a group.

I haven't noticed any difference in killing since the switch. We've been using Barnes.

I haven't had any tougher cleaning, maybe a few extra passes. Not really a big deal. Get a good solvent that goes after copper and it's not a big deal.

If lead is of concern to you, I wouldn't hesitate to switch to copper. I just hope they don't mandate it. I'd rather have it be a personal option.

[mrklean]

Im going to shoot copper this year only for the reason i got a few free boxes of 110 grain barnes for my 7mm. Personally i wouuld be more concerned about a million other things making me sick or killing me before lead from deer i kill.

[BobT]

I think there are more bald eagles killed by wind generators than by ingesting lead.

[BobT]

I have to be honest. I am a little surprised by the posts so far. We hunters and sportsmen do have a tendency to resist change. This was evident with steel shot and lead sinkers but so far, all but one post has been supportive of the switch to copper. I'm impressed.

[fr0sty]

I site my 270 in using the federal all coppers but then target shoot with the regular federal blue box (both in 130 grain). I detect no difference in where the bullets hit. That way it's cheaper to keep the skillz honed.

I saw the article also and my wife urged me to switch. I picked up some Barnes Vortex for my 30-06 and stayed at 150 grain bullets. I went to the range and got my best pattern ever. I did read that copper is a little more accurate than the Core-lok I was using. They are over double the price of Remington Core-Lok so it does keep pre-season shooting down to just a few bullets.

[flipper]

I have to be honest. I am a little surprised by the posts so far. We hunters and sportsmen do have a tendency to resist change. This was evident with steel shot and lead sinkers but so far, all but one post has been supportive of the switch to copper. I'm impressed.

Personally I don't care if you and many other hunters switch to copper. The point is a person should have the choice to shoot what they want. This lead hysteria is just another way for the anti's to try to take away hunting rights. Are we going to take the sport away from those who shoot cap and ball rifles designed to shoot a patched lead ball or other faster twist muzzleloaders that shoot full bore conicals? You might be ok with big brother taking away our hunting rights, I am not.

[fivebucks]

I don't think the copper/lead debate has anything to do with "anti's" wanting to take our guns away. It is a proven scientific fact that lead is poison toxin and that is why we no longer use lead for waterfowl. I do like the choice pheasant hunting to use lead but if they one day banned all lead products, it would probably be better for wildlife and the environment.

[fishhound2013]

You guys talking about switching to solid copper? Some of the bullets listed I thought were just copper jacketed and would think that would change the behavior inside the animal all the much except to control the expansion a little more.

[mrklean]

I don't think the copper/lead debate has anything to do with "anti's" wanting to take our guns away.

Do a little research on that the antis are pushing the lead ban hard in Cali and some of these other "enviormental groups" are backed by antis

[flipper]

The guy in North Dakota was an anti that got this lead arguement going in Minnesota. He was the one that caused Minnesota to throw away all the venison that was charitably donated to the foodshelf although there was no proof that any of it contained lead. I feel as safe or more safe eating venison shot with a lead projectile than I do beef bought at the market.

[flipper]

"Anti-Hunting Group’s Scare Tactics Claiming Lead Ammunition is a Human Health Risk Are Shameful Jul 26, 2013 Latest News

In a recent article, the Audubon Society (Audubon) continued its shameful use of scare tactics to push for a state-wide ban on the use of traditional lead ammunition in California (AB 711). Audubon is again claiming that hunters and their families put their own health at risk by consuming game harvested with lead ammunition. This advocacy tactic is not new. It is an often-used political tool used to gain public support, playing to the well-meaning desire of individuals to protect their health, and especially the health of their children. But it is a lie.

The Audubon article details the story of Dr. William Cornatzer, a North Dakota dermatologist and a Board of Director for The Peregrine Fund (TPF, is also a lead ammunition ban proponent) since 2007. According to the article, Cornatzer, who allegedly had no previous association with TPF at the time, was invited by a friend to attend a Board of Directors meeting in 2008. At the alleged meeting, a radiograph was presented that apparently showed numerous lead fragments in a deer shot with lead ammunition. Consequently, Cornatzer was so concerned for his health and the health of his family, he decided to conduct a study to assess the amount of lead in ground venison. His analysis supposedly revealed that over half of the 100 one pound venison samples contained one or more visible radio-dense fragments, and that some of those samples contained lead.

There are, however, a few issues that affect the credibility of the Audubon’s reporting and Cornatzer’s study. First, Audubon attempts to eloquently portray Cornatzer as an concerned hunter with no affiliation to TPF (allegedly unbiased) when he performed his study. If he was associated with this lead ban advocacy group, this could potentially taint his motives for performing the study as well as implicate a bias regarding the results. Cornatzer, however, has been a TPF Board of Director since 2007. The study clearly states that he examined venison packages in the fall of 2007. Yet the articles states that he attended the TPF meeting as a neutral in 2008?

So much for his credibility as an unbiased and sincerely concerned hunter!"

http://www.huntfortruth.org/wordpress/an...k-are-shameful/

If any of you want to get rid of all your poison lead bullets, sinkers, and jigs let me know and I will take them off your hands free of charge.

[spivak]

This is the article the original poster was referring to. I think it is worth reading:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/volunteer/sepoct13/copper.html

[flipper]

http://www.startribune.com/local/137803668.html

We, as users of electricity, must demand that none of our power comes from wind turbines.

[sportfish]

I use gmx copper bullets for elk and they worked great but I will stick with normal bullets for the thin skinned deer . I'm not worried about the lead that ends up in my septic system

[jay83196]

BARNS-X are a great bullet, awesome penetration and good expansion for all copper.