Using a .223 for deer

[BlackArrow1]

Looking for some input that maybe has been posted before beside recent. I'm gonna try and use my Rem .223 for deer this year. My R-15 VTR .223 is just pasting marks with the so called 64 gr deer loads. BDR Nikon. My shots will not exceed 120 yards. My question is, will this load effectively punch the vital region for a clean kill or should I target a head or neck shot? I have a Rem model 700 that will not pattern from a bench at 100yds with 180gr loads better than a 6 inch group.

[Ufatz]

We have walked down this discussion path before. There are thos of us who say "please, no" but others are convinced the .223 with that little bitty bullet is adequate.

I still say no, it probably CAN but if your shot placement is not perfect you may be subjecting the animal to a lot of misery before it dies.

Is that the way YOU want to die?

Use something heavier.

Okay, now for the next guy.

[Neighbor_guy]

If you shoot them in the lungs they will die. You will likely need to track them a little bit, but they will be at the end of it. A dropped in their tracks shot is not likely.

Of your stated options I would choose the .223. It is much more important to hit what you are aiming for than shoot a larger bullet you can't effectively hit a barn door with. Don't under estimate confidence in the equation.

[NoWiser]

My personal opinion is that if you need to question whether a round will effectively penetrate on a shot to the vitals of a deer, you probably shouldn't be hunting deer with it. And, as far as a head shot, when you see a deer coming through the woods blowing bubbles of blood where its snout used to be, you may reconsider it. It's not a pretty sight. But, lots of people have killed deer with a .223. I guess if you feel like it's the most ethical choice you have available to you, go for it. Good luck.

[Whoaru99]

If I was going to use 223 for deer I think I'd look into the 60gr Nosler Partition load.

Far as head or neck shots go they're too high risk for me. I stick to the boilerroom. The deer I've had to track the furthest was a .270 neck shot. The shortest, literally drop in the tracks, was a 7.62x39 (SKS) to the boilerroom. The point is not that I think the 7.62x39 is a better deer round than the .270, not at all, moreso the probability of hitting what counts shot placement aspect.

[harvey lee]

I do believe the .223 is too small of a gun unless you hit them very well in the vital's. One cannot count on a perfect shot placement every shot so I have not used it since.

One year, I did use my .223 to see what it could do. I hit it very well in the vitals and the deer maybe went 20 yards.

Only time I ever used it as I wanted to see what would happen.

Ethically I believe it is just to small of a caliber for a constant good shot. Yes, if you hit the boilerroom, you should be golden but anywhere else and you maywell end up with a long tracking job or the coyote's will get a easy meal.

Just cannot see using this caliber when there are others that will do a proper job

maybe even with a marginal hit.

You get a heavy crosswind and your hit could miss but inches and now you have a wounded deer. Yes, larger caliber's can also wound deer but if they are heavy enough, your chances for recovery are so much better.

So, can you do it, yes but the odds are as much that you will get a poor hit and have a deer that could suffer for sometime.

Back to my 7mm or my 300 for the deer.

[TruthWalleyes]

My muzzleloader is zero'd in at 200 yds and effective to 300. Why can't your high powered rifle rounds group at 100yds? Maybe try a 12 GA. Even if all you have is a bird barrel, buy a rifled slug and now you've got a bullet with some knock down.

[B-man715]

As mentioned shot placement is critical.......

I like the wiggle room a larger caliber provides When deer drop "right there", not "way over there".

A buddy of mine has shot a few deer in the past with one, but no longer does. His concern was if Mr. Big showed up it wouldn't pass through the shoulders, since it rarely did on an average doe.

[DTro]

I recently read an interview with a contracted sharpshooter and his gun of choice is a .223.      Now sure it’s a different scenario in city limits where deer are less skittish and probably shot over a bait pile, but the point is that he had dropped a very high percentage of a large number of deer in their tracks instantly with a well placed head shot and a .223    Time is money to these guys, so that says something, I think

[picksbigwagon]

have you tried a different load with your 700? try a different weight bullet, I suggest going with some Hornady ammo, they make some wicked rounds...... as far as a 223, not enough in my opinion, but they say the poachers have taken more deer with a 22lr than anything else.....

[LABS4ME]

Took my .223 to the late seaon doe hunt in WI. Last year. Figured my average shot would be under a 100 yards. Same rifle and scope as the OP... I too wanted to see just what it could do and wanted to have as much meat from said doe as possible... 60 grain soft point bullets.

Doe came out at 40 yards. Crosshairs settled just below where head and neck come together. Dropped in her tracks. Will I use it as my go to deer rifle? Nope... but the trend of hunters is to get larger and heavier and even magnum loads to hunt deer. Which is over kill vs. under kill. I have a buddy who uses a .300 magnum. You should see the mess he makes blowing shoulders out. A patient well placed shot from a .223 will kill a deer and preserve most of the meat. Lots of BIG healthy soldiers have been killed in foreign lands from .223s (5.56)

A well placed shot with any caliber will cleanly kill a deer. A poorly placed shot from any caliber can cripple off a deer and feed the predators. I've come across gut shot deer that I would imagine were hit by any number of traditional calibers... there is no room for error there. They die, but are not always recovered. A good hunter will have no problem using any gun... a sub-par hunter and shot will have problems with almost any form of weapon (bow, gun, muzzleloader) he chooses.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Gus]

I'd spend some time to find out what's up with the 700. Bad scope? Rings? Mount? Unless the rifle has been terribly abused or burned out, there is an answer somewhere. Might even be as easy as a new bullet choice.

Legal or not, personally I do not think .223 is ethical. If you do, that's your right and choice. God Bless America.

[Comit 2]

I believe if a bow and arrow is big enough, ,,, fire away. Just remember though, if you see that Buck of a life time at 200yrds you will have to let him walk. 300yds is point blank for most deer rifles with 3 1/2 high point of impact at 100yrds.

What is the minimum for deer now. I know when they changed the law a few year back so that the 30 carbine could be used the minimum was .224 cal. Which didn't let you use the .223 but you could use a .22 hornet which is a .224 cal. They didn't think that out.

[Whoaru99]

For big game per MN hunting regs...

It is at least .220 caliber and has center fire ignition;

The projectile used has a soft point or is an expanding bullet type;

[Comit 2]

I take it that your rem 700 is a 30 cal? Why would you want to shoot a 180gr load. Elk maybe, deer why?

[harvey lee]

Took my .223 to the late seaon doe hunt in WI. Last year. Figured my average shot would be under a 100 yards. Same rifle and scope as the OP... I too wanted to see just what it could do and wanted to have as much meat from said doe as possible... 60 grain soft point bullets.

Doe came out at 40 yards. Crosshairs settled just below where head and neck come together. Dropped in her tracks. Will I use it as my go to deer rifle? Nope... but the trend of hunters is to get larger and heavier and even magnum loads to hunt deer. Which is over kill vs. under kill. I have a buddy who uses a .300 magnum. You should see the mess he makes blowing shoulders out. A patient well placed shot from a .223 will kill a deer and preserve most of the meat. Lots of BIG healthy soldiers have been killed in foreign lands from .223s (5.56)

A well placed shot with any caliber will cleanly kill a deer. A poorly placed shot from any caliber can cripple off a deer and feed the predators. I've come across gut shot deer that I would imagine were hit by any number of traditional calibers... there is no room for error there. They die, but are not always recovered. A good hunter will have no problem using any gun... a sub-par hunter and shot will have problems with almost any form of weapon (bow, gun, muzzleloader) he chooses.

Good Luck!

Ken

I shoot a 7MM and a 300 mag. I have never blown anything apart as far as meat with my 300. No reason to shoot them in the shoulder.

[harvey lee]

I recently read an interview with a contracted sharpshooter and his gun of choice is a .223.      Now sure it’s a different scenario in city limits where deer are less skittish and probably shot over a bait pile, but the point is that he had dropped a very high percentage of a large number of deer in their tracks instantly with a well placed head shot and a .223    Time is money to these guys, so that says something, I think

Only issue with that Dtro is the majority of the hunters do not take the time to be a sharpshooter. Many do not even shoot thier gun before they go out and then wonder why they missed or made a poor shot.

[Whoaru99]

I shoot a 7MM and a 300 mag. I have never blown anything apart as far as meat with my 300. No reason to shoot them in the shoulder.

Well, ya...just the muzzle blast from a 300 mag is probably enough to kill a deer.

[LABS4ME]

Never impled you did Harvey... My buddy hit one on a quartering away shot a couple years ago... Far side shoulder was useless. Saw the same happen at bear camp a few years back... Gaping hole and shoulder blown away. Prob didn't help his rug.

I know any of the large calibers can destroy a shoulder, I did it with my .270 several years ago... It is not only magnums... But the larger shells and loads up the odds to wreck some meat...

Again, the .223 isn't my go to gun, and i may or may not use it again for deer, but far from unethical. You can kill a deer at 30 yards with a practice tip on an arrow if put into the lungs... If you are comfortable with the gun, keep the range down to compensate for the light load, you will kill your deer. Be patient and wait for a good clean shot.

Take the 700 to Bills gun shop and for $45 they will sight it in for you... If they can't gt it to group, they'll probably be able to tell you why. The gun smith in Their Hudson shop does the sight in.

[BlackArrow1]

My model 700 is a new gun. Factory Rem package synthetic model. I bought a bunch of core lokt 180gr rems for it. The factory scope is bad. My bud also said it could be in the scope and rings. Also the loads. It just puts em too far apart. I believe I need to downgrade gr and get a better scope. Find a load that maybe patterns better. I don't have the time or $ to figure that equation out now. Thanks for the replies and opinions. I'm not gonna be shooting brush or taking longer than a 100yd shot. I'll be able to easily put a boiler room shot with the .223. I'm gonna use it and see how it goes. Under 50yd I'll pin one in the head. Thanks again.

[harvey lee]

As I have said, yes the 223 can kill a deer. Some say, well I won't make a long shot but if you see a huge buck at 175 yards, my guess is, most all will take that shot and then the 223 may not be enough gun or one may not hit the spot needed for this smaller caliber.

Yes, you could kill a deer with a prac tip on a arrow but it would be unethical and against the law. If I had a big rock, I could throw it at the deer and may kill it also.

[Ufatz]

Oh PLEASE don't try any headshots yet. Wait until you have hunted and used your rifle more frequently. Remember: we have an obligation as sportsmen to make a quick clean kill.

[LABS4ME]

Yes, you could kill a deer with a prac tip on a arrow but it would be unethical and against the law

Of course it is... Sheesh. Using it as a comparison.

I hunt ethically, I take what I determine to be good, one shot kills. Gun, bow and ML. I'll pass on any questionable shot, have done so hundreds of time... Many will not. No caliber or magnum charge will make a poor shot a good one. It has as much to do with the person pulling the trigger and the accuracy of your weapon as the size of the bullet...

You choose your .300 mag. I'll use my 45-70, 270, or 6.8 sp forces (270 bullet on a 223 case) or .223. I'm confident in any of them to cleanly and humanely kill the deer I choose to pull the trigger on. I would not shoot at a buck at 175 yards when I hunted with my 223, know its well outside the parameters of the 223s performance... I wouldn't even had seen him where I was hunting, most shots were goingto be 60 yards or less and it was a doe only season...

In the end, it would not be a good choice for most inexperienced hunters, nor many experienced hunters without a familiarity with their gun. If you hunt close, know your gun and are patient and wait for a good clean shot, your 223 will suffice.

Good luck!

Ken

[tfran123]

20 years ago the 223 probably wasn't an acceptable deer cartridge, it is now. Why? Advancements in bullets. Try a 55 gr TSX out of one, if you haven't you'll be shocked at the results. I've seen youth shoot this round into 200lb plus deer and the results are always the same, 20 yard tracking job and a dead deer at the end of the trail - if they don't drop in their tracks from a shoulder blade shot. I prefer a larger round but the expansion and penetration from a bullet like a TSX is a game changer. H

[harvey lee]

You can kill a deer at 30 yards with a practice tip on an arrow if put into the lungs...

I was not trying to make a comparison, just saying that would be a very unethical shot using a field point at any range.

You or I may not ry to make a long shot or a running shot at a deer but many would.

I agree ken that an expierenced shooter with a 223 can get the job done, but, too many take a questionable shot and they also do not know what they can and cannot make for a shot, that is the concern I have.

As far as a poor shot not making a difference with a larger caliber, I would much rather make a poor hit with a large caliber than a 223.

All I would ask is that a person who is going to use a .223 would know thier gun and know it's limitations. Then, I have no issue with the caliber.

Yes, you can make that shot and I could also as I would choose what shot to make or not make. Many will not.