Manziel Debate

[ozzie]

When has a "hybrid" done anything? I would call Russel Wilson a "hybrid" and if I do recall he is the latest super bowl champ homeboy!!

[Getanet]

When is the last time a hybrid did anything semi-spectacular?

Russel Wilson. 2 time Pro-Bowler. Super Bowl Champion.

Does that count?

[thatoneguy]

Kaepernick is carving out a nice career for himself in SF as well. Pretty solid stuff for a guy just a few years in.

[DrJuice1980]

Russel Wilson is not a hybrid.

[Getanet]

He's not?

He ranked #3 in rushing yards for QB's both years he has been in the league.

[DrJuice1980]

He rushes on average for 32 yrds a game versus 202 yrds passing. Thats hybrid to you?

[DrJuice1980]

Russell Wilson:

Weaknesses

Wilson's height will be his biggest inhibitor at the next level and the largest reason for his late-round value. It remains to be seen if he can throw effectively from the pocket at the next level.

Johnny Manziel:

Weaknesses

Has an unorthodox body type with marginal height, rounded shoulders, an underdeveloped body and very big feet that almost look clumsy. Will need to learn to do a better job protecting his body and sliding. Feels pocket ghosts and often takes off running at the second flash of coverage. Undisciplined -- plays his own offense and presses to make plays. Cannot see over the pocket easily and almost never steps up into it, creating extra difficulties for OL coaches to coordinate blocking schemes and for offensive linemen to anticipate where the pocket will be. Dances around the pocket too much and creates needless sacks rolling into protection when the pocket is clean. Has not worked from under center, and footwork and set-up will require refinement. Often throws the ball up in the air and relies on big receivers to adjust to it and make plays, highly benefiting from the playmaking ability of Mike Evans. Tends to overshoot the deep ball and throw off his back foot, leading to some underthrows (too many dirtballs on the move) and diminished accuracy. Needlessly pats the ball when he scans the field. Could stand to do a better job carrying out play-action fakes. Has not developed a reputation as a worker or for doing the extras. Suspect intangibles -- not a leader by example or known to inspire by his words. Carries a sense of entitlement and prima-donna arrogance seeking out the bright lights of Hollywood. Is known to party too much and is drawn to all the trappings of the game. Lacks ideal starting experience (only two years), operated a non-traditional offense and has a lot to learn.

Maybe he all of a sudden corrected all that stuff because he showed off at his pro-day in a helmet and shoulder pads.

Rubes love the Rubes.

[Getanet]

He rushes on average for 32 yrds a game versus 202 yrds passing. Thats hybrid to you?

Yes. If that's not the case, who would you label a hybrid QB?

[DrJuice1980]

Mike Vick.

Hybrids do not come around often because their game cant transition, unless the athletic talent exceeds what they lack in being a prototypical QB. Mike Vick was an absolute freak, like him or not (I do not) he could do things that we had never seen and it will be a very long time until we see them again. Manziel couldnt carry Mike Vick's jock.

You cant just look at a stat line and draw a line from #5 and up for QB rushing leaders and say "These guys are hybrids" thats one of the dumbest excuses out there.

[Scott K]

So then where is the line drawn? Other then right under Vick, and Manziel?

I would think that his almost 70% pass completion over the past 2 years, 165 QB rating, or his almost 8000 yards passing in 2 years may qualify him as a passer. Or his 63/22 TD to INT rating, But I guess not by your book.

[DrJuice1980]

Will have a very similar career as Tebow. 2nd stringer with too much distraction to keep on board. Out in 2-3 years. Just you watch.

[DrJuice1980]

I would think that his almost 70% pass completion over the past 2 years, 165 QB rating, or his almost 8000 yards passing in 2 years may qualify him as a passer. Or his 63/22 TD to INT rating, But I guess not by your book.

Yup, and he'll be able to "get away" with playing that style in the NFL. Yeah right.

Rubes love Rubes

[Scott K]

You would think that since 3/4 of the scouts, and pro evaluators think he deserves a top 5 pick, there may be some truth to all the hype? But I guess Drj has a better analysis for NFL ready QB's then they do.

[thatoneguy]

Evaluating QBs is more voodoo than science, and the fact that there is such a wide range of opinions on Manziel sure is reason enough to have doubts. My gut tells me he will be a bust, but more because of the mental aspect than any physical deficits. He can make all the throws, he's plenty mobile, and he has succeeded against the best defenses he's faced.

But...the party boy attitude, eagerness to improvise when he doesn't need to, and shaky reading of defenses...those are not good in the NFL. I wouldn't be upset at all in MN took him at #8 (not that he'll still be there), but I would rather see them upgrade defense and draft a QB in round 2 or 3 since there's nothing resembling a sure thing this year.

[Juan Grande]

So who would you like to see them take Dr. Juice? Which defensive player specifically?

[CaptainMusky]

Yes. If that's not the case, who would you label a hybrid QB?

Tebow

[DrJuice1980]

Gilbert and Mack would be my most wanted. Im not so sure we'll take a CB though due to the recent additions to the backfield but I would love to see Mack in Purple. Donald would be my 3rd most wanted.

I will be massively disappointed if I hear Bridgewaters name called with our pick.

[Juan Grande]

Yeah, Mack is my #1. I would be surprised if he doesn't go in the top three though.

[Getanet]

Mike Vick.

Wow, really went out on a limb there didn't you, going with the example of a hybrid, not an example of a hybrid.

[Juan Grande]

The big difference between Manziel and Tebow is that Manziel can run AND

throw the forward pass.

I would consider Wilson and Kaep to both be hybrid quarterbacks as both of their teams have designed run plays for them. Wilson averaged 6 rushing attempts per game last year.

[DrJuice1980]

I wouldnt consider a guy who has to flush out of the pocket because of his size a hybrid. I would consider Kaepernick a hybrid. And heres my follow up to that:

If you think JM is remotely close to the athlete that Kaepernick is you are seriously fooled. He's shorter, less of an arm, and not as fast. So in summery he is a shorter, not as fast, less arm strength Kaepernick type QB. Now I think Kaepernick is a stud and all but take those things down a few notches and he is no longer stud status. But we should dish out multiple draft picks for him? We should burn a top 10 pick on him? With all the holes we have we attempt to fill one with this guy?

No thank you.

[Big Dave2]

Luck is the definition of an NFL QB, JM is a hybrid. When is the last time a hybrid did anything semi-spectacular? Mike Vick? He aint no Mike Vick. He's not as athletic as Steve Young either. He's a fad, just like the read option without any wrinkles. He will be eaten up. Big Dave you're just brainwashed into thinking these great SEC defenses are similar to the NFL. Not even close my friend, not even close. Not being big man on campus will also have an effect.

Vick's college stats are pale in comparison to Johnny Football's.

Here, let me educate you: http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/johnny-manziel-1.html

The guy is being mentioned as possibly the best college quarterback of all time, why would we want to take a chance on him?

http://mikebig.hubpages.com/hub/Why-Is-Johnny-Manziel-So-Good

[CaptainMusky]

Its funny how so many knuckleheads are arguing over why JM is or isn't worth drafting when he may not even be there. I am included in the knuckleheads.

[Big Dave2]

My gut tells me he will be a bust, but more because of the mental aspect than any physical deficits.

If anyone has the mental aspect down it's Johnny Football. I don't think there's anyone here who realizes Johnny Football is JUST A 21 YEAR OLD KID.

[Big Dave2]

With all the holes we have we attempt to fill one with this guy?

No thank you.

You don't think Quarterback is a glaring hole for the Vikings?