Bucks and antler genetic s??

[Z7EXTERME]

So I have question when I was looking at some trail camera picture s with a buddy one night. He says to me you know you have to get rid of of those srcub bucks. I asked him what he ment. He said if they are a fork jorn or spike buck they are scrub bucks they will never mature into a nice buck. I told him I belive age genetic s and the amout of mineral they have will produce a nice sized rack. He argued with me till he was blue in the face just wondering what other people think on this subject...

[nonteepical]

your buddy is wrong. spikes and forks are yearlings, theres no way to know what kind of rack they will grow in the future, unless you let them grow up.

[Stcloudangler]

If you see a deer that has an obvious 150-200 pound frame but is walking around with a small 6 on his head, yeah, its better to get him outta your area gene pool. However, shooting a young spike or fork is pretty dumb if you want to see a big one at some time.

[Wanderer]

I think your friend stopped learning about deer after his Grandpa taught him everything he knew...

[slimngrizzly]

Ya your buddy couldn't be more wrong. There called baby bucks, and if they lived to 3 or 4 or 5 years old, 98% of them would make youre buddy soil himself!

[archerystud]

I believe that nearly all bucks in MN can grow at least 140 inches of antler if they can get old enough. For most hunters that's a very nice deer, myself included. It takes great genetics to make a 170+ inch deer.

[Jameson]

So I have question when I was looking at some trail camera picture s with a buddy one night. He says to me you know you have to get rid of of those srcub bucks. I asked him what he ment. He said if they are a fork jorn or spike buck they are scrub bucks they will never mature into a nice buck. I told him I belive age genetic s and the amout of mineral they have will produce a nice sized rack. He argued with me till he was blue in the face just wondering what other people think on this subject...

My thinking is your buddy is right about 1-2% of the time, maybe even 5% of the time. Many of those scrub bucks will grow fine racks with a few years of age, and would have grown great racks if given the correct conditions. Not born late, not pressured by predators, good food to eat, a very healthy mom to produce a full-weight newborn, etc. There is no way for you to tell which scrub deer has bad genetics and which have had a tough life.

So, if you start shooting the scrub bucks and leave the nice bucks(and your neighbors do the same) you might see a change eventually, but it would take a long time. Are you really prepared to not shoot the nice bucks?

Conversely if you don't shoot any scrub bucks and only shoot the nice bucks......APR's.

Another way to look at it is to forget about trying to change herd genetics, and instead just think about the few deer that are going to be using your land. Rarely will a spike yearling surpass a 8 point yearling when they reach 4.5 years old. Only so many deer will call your land home. That spike could push the 8 point off of your land by just being a bully kind of deer. So, go ahead and shoot that spike if you think it will give you a better chance at a nicer deer in the future, but to think one person/property is having much effect on genetics is very questionable.

[96trigger]

You can go online and find pictures of farm raised deer that started out as forks and turned into some monsters. I know that many of them are getting fed nutrients and supplements for larger racks, but the main frame generally stays the same. Forks can most definitely become nice bucks given the time.

I would say of all the yearling deer I have on camera, 75% of them are forks and spikes, with a few nice 6 and 8 point baskets comprising the other 25%. If what your friend says is true, many of the adult deer should be scrub bucks with forks and baskets at 2.5 to 3.5 years old. That is absolutely not the case. I don't get pictures of older deer walking around with those kinds of racks. Most of the deer in my area become nice symmetrical 8's or 10's. Not a lot of scrub to them.

[TruthWalleyes]

There is so much uncontroled diluting of gene pools in nature that even APR can't grow SUPERIOR RACKS.

[sticknstring]

Quote:

I think your friend stopped learning about deer after his Grandpa taught him everything he knew...

Indeed. I think I'd limit him to does for the time being.

[Bear55]

Your friend is just wrong, send him to this thread if he wants to argue. With most buck you won't really know what you have until they are 3 and even then by the time they are 5 they could still blow up into a nice one.

[sticknstring]

Show him this and see what his response is.

[InTheNorthwoods]

In most wild, free ranging herds, it is impossible to control the genetics of a herd for antler characteristics. Even if you were able to weed out the bucks you wanted out, you have to remember, does supplied 1/2 the genetics of every buck alive.

Add on to the above dilemma, bucks don't all begin to show their potential until their 2nd or 3rd set of antlers (as some yearlings may have been late born, and most energy is going to body development at young ages). In fact, as it has been pointed out, a buck will not reach maximum antler growth under typical conditions until they are 5 or 6.

Based on all of these issues, my goal is simply to let deer go until they reach maturity (which, for me is a goal of 4.5+).

[Bear55]

Even in an enclosed pen you are likely talking about years of dna testing to weed out the bucks AND does you don't want. Culling only bucks isn't going to get the job done.

[nonteepical]

Natures plan by Mike Sieve

[Kyle]

I'm with you guys. Your buddy is wrong.

There are SO many people in MN that think their property doesn't have good genetics or big bucks. The problem is that many hunters haven't figured out that meat hunting and trophy hunting pair better together than they do apart. Take does to get the best meat in the woods. Let the bucks you have in your area grow old and you'll get big racks and more meat. Bucks grow racks for survival. The size of the rack is directly related to biological fitness. This basic need for survival requires that deer have a rack they can defend themselves with. AGE is what it takes to get there more than anything.

I hope you educate your friend, and everyone you know about the great response you are getting on this thread.

[muskiemanAD]

We had a deer on trail camera as a 1.5 year old that was a spike/mini 4 pointer. He was easy to identify as he had a double throat patch and a rip in his ear. My uncle led him last year as a 130 inch 12 pointer. On more year and he would have been a stud. So a small buck as a 1.5 year old can defiantly grow into something good..