Real estate lawyer ?'s

[ClownColor]

If a piece of property you want to buy had an association with covenants and restrictions, but the document expired over ten years ago, can they hold you to the restrictions? Can the reinstate them? If so, does it need EVERY homeowners approval or majority? Do the documents automatically renew?

Now a curve ball...what if there is a "community" parcel? They also don't collect any fees. From what I'm told, the taxes on the community lot are split with all lots that have access to it and placed on their individual lots.

Like the property, hate the restrictions and covenants.

Thanks,

CC

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

I would highly recommend you just call a lawyer directly rather than post this on a internet forum. Free legal advice is worth way less than what you pay for it, and you are asking questions that will potentially have an impact on a property you may own for the rest of your life.

[Tom7227]

The covenants and restrictions expire. They can be renewed but only with the approval of all of the parcels involved. They do not automatically renew.

We had a deal where 30 properties were given an easement to some lake property. In addition there were a total of 65 properties subject to restrictive covenants and easements.

I facilitated the formation of a nonprofit corporation and 25 of the possible 30 properties became owners of the corporation. We bought the lake lots and the ownership of the covenants and easements. Within 5 years the covenants and easements expired and were not renewed.

The benefits of the nonprofit ownership are that there is a board of directors that decides what is going to be done at the beach, there is a way to collect dues to pay for taxes and improvements, and most importantly the corp. assumes the liability and can insure for anything that happens on the property.

It has worked smoothly for 25 years. We set up a schedule for grass cutting and have maintenance days where things like repairing the docks are done. Recently we spent about $10K on landscaping and were able to apply for a grant from the local soil and water conservation district to help pay for part of that.

In my view this is the only way to go.

[titelines]

We are in the same situation. The land company that sold the lots set up the covenants as a way to ensure that the land would be preserved as best as possible and kept as natural as possible. With that in place, there are some restrictions on what you can do with your property (can't clear cut it, can't hunt on it etc.). It also has some things on what you can build (minimum/maximum size of your structures, exterior colors etc.), and what you can have on the property (no livestock etc.).

It sounds restrictive, but when you really break it down it makes sense and really doesn't affect much at all. There are 20 properties in our development and all the property owners I have spoken to purchased their lots specifically because of the covenants. They wanted to keep the area as natural as possible and didn't want to be surrounded by a bunch of cabin mansions down the road.

There is also a 100 acre parcel that each property owner has a 1/20 stake in.

We're on a private road, so we formed a "road association", set up bank accounts for it and collect yearly dues from everyone to pay for the maintenance of the road.

I don't believe our covenants ever expire, but if it came up I'm sure that the vast majority of the owners would want to keep them in place.

We have had folks that were looking at lots to keep their horses on and decided against it when they found out the covenants wouldn't allow it. Someone also wanted to clear their entire lot and build a huge second home and went somewhere else when they found it it was against the covenants...no harm, no foul. On the other hand, if those folks had disregarded the covenants, purchased the land anyway and done those things, the current property owners would've been pretty upset.

If the property you're looking at has an association there must be someone in charge. Just talk to them and get a feel for how strict they would be with the covenants. Tell them what you like and what you don't, what you want to do and see what the feedback is. If you get the feeling that there would be a lot of push back or upset neighbors it would probably be best to look somewhere else. Just my $.02.

[Down Deep]

I've never dealt with an HOA or a owners group of any kind. I getting ready to retire and although I've have no particulars area or property in mind, I may purchase a property down south that is in a gated community managed by an HOA. Tightlines brings up a good point about someone buying property and disregarding the covenants. What is the recourse does the HOA have other than a protracted legal fight?

[Ufatz]

You might be surprised at the legal powers an HOA can assume, under laws of the state where HOA is located. They vary of course, but they CAN include the power to slap leins on a homeowner, powers to compell certain levels of maintenance and repair etc. If you are going to buy a property in a HOA managed development I'd be mighty sure what rules will apply.

When you have time on your hands read the AZ, CA and NM statutes on HOA's.

Personally I like 'em; keeps out the riff-raff.

[Tom7227]

The first answer to the OP is really the correct answer.

I'm a lawyer. Didn't practice real estate but did dabble in it a bit. I have spent at least an hour trying to find the statute that limits the length of time restrictive covenants can exist. In doing so I found about a half dozen statutes dealing with all sorts of variations on the limits of real estate. There are all sorts of classifications - ag land, environmental easements.......

If I was buying I would already be dealing with a lawyer, and I would make sure that lawyer knew what all these different statutes meant.

[ClownColor]

Thanks-

Will definitely be getting a lawyer when the offer is accepted, with a contingency of course, regarding the declaration of restrictions.

Just have never dealt with this before and want some opinions from people who may have dealt with this already. I don’t want to be “that neighbor” but I also don’t want restrictions and covenants telling me what color siding, how big my house can be, this and that…I just really love the lot and it’s within price range, wonder why right?

[delcecchi]

Personally, and I am not a lawyer, not even close, I would start by reading all the covenants and restrictions. If they really bothered me, I would ask the HOA or whatever what they thought about them, and whether they were still enforcing them. Also what does your broker say?

Then I would consider, based on the answers I had received, contacting a lawyer and then making an offer.

[Lip_Ripper Guy]

State statutes allow you 10 business days of a contingency period *from the receipt of association documents* to review them, and back out if you desire. Many sellers will not pay for association documents until you have a signed purchase agreement. Have your attorney lined up before your offer is accepted for maximum flexibility.

[ClownColor]

State statutes allow you 10 business days of a contingency period *from the receipt of association documents* to review them, and back out if you desire. Many sellers will not pay for association documents until you have a signed purchase agreement. Have your attorney lined up before your offer is accepted for maximum flexibility.

Good idea.

As for contacting the assiciation, there is nobody...no one in charge, no board of directors, no fee's collected, nothing and nobody. I did talk with someone who "belongs" to the HOA and they stated they just take turns mowing the community lot...thats it. They did say they had restrictions on what you can build and do so obvisously they think it still exists.

[jerkbait]

If the HOA doesn't exist why would the covnents still exist? My uderstanding is if the HOA is no longer the rules fall back to city, township or county rules. At least that is how it would for us up here. When I ask one of the original members of the HOA or enforces the covenents if the HOA is no more and his answer was God. So we just followed the county rules.