Ponder

[CaptainMusky]

You don't need any advanced metrics to understand that Ponder is not a franchise QB; you just need to watch him play.

Please define "franchise QB". Is he Brady, Rodgers, Manning? Hell no. If you define it solely off "elite" status, not a chance. If you define it as something where they start the majority of the games, is consistent and doesnt require you to go look for a replacement or wonder what you are going to do with that position, I think it is possible he could fit that. This will be the tipping point on whether this experiment worked out or not, this season. If he doesnt produce, then HE GONE.

[Big Dave2]

Well if you expect better than 10-6, then you better stick to The Tide

Who's predicting 10-6? Be lucky to go 8-8. AP is not likely to have another year like last year, thats the only way they come anywhere near 10-6. Ponder's not going to get them there.

[DTro]

You just can't make it up the guy was taking snaps for a 10-6 season yet he still needs to prove himself. Facts are not facts i guess. opinion is all that counts

[CaptainMusky]

You just can't make it up the guy was taking snaps for a 10-6 season yet he still needs to prove himself. Facts are not facts i guess. opinion is all that counts

But Dtro, he was also taking snaps in a 3-13 season. :-)

I know, haters will be haters. I think he has a chance to be more than serviceable for the Vikings. With him at the helm the Vikings have a better than 50/50 shot of being 10-6 this season considering the other pieces we have added on offense and including those we have returning.

Not predicting SuperBowl, but I have a feeling they will be playing meaningful games in December. LOL

[Scott K]

I dont foresee a record better then 8-8 this year, I will say anywhere from 7-9 to 9-7, more then likely 8-8.

[Big Dave2]

You just can't make it up the guy was taking snaps for a 10-6 season yet he still needs to prove himself. Facts are not facts i guess. opinion is all that counts

How much did Ponder have to do with the 10-6? You do realize that Adrian Peterson came within 9 yards of breaking the all-time rushing record don't you?

[LMITOUT]

You said you would take Ryan. I said he was on the list.

[DTro]

How much did Ponder have to do with the 10-6? You do realize that Adrian Peterson came within 9 yards of breaking the all-time rushing record don't you?

and look what happened when Webb got the snaps...

Pretty sure some HOF QB's had a 3 win season out of the gate...or maybe even worse.

Sure are a lot of grass is always greener folks here.

So if the team starts 5-3 and his QB rating is 50 then what do you do?

[CaptainMusky]

I mentioned Ryan because I was watching the game. I didn't even realize he was on the list until I went back and looked.

I did look at the list and each of those guys I referenced are on it. The rest I would agree are a bunch of retreads with the possible exception of wheeden.

But if you are putting so much stock in some stat you better own up to who is on the list. You provided lil blurbs of info making it seem as if ponder was on a list just full of guys like "him" when in fact there are some big name guys on there and some future hall of famers, well for sure one anyway. So that should put it in perspective. But in the end you won't get it because it doesn't feed into your agenda. So troll on...

[LMITOUT]

But if you are putting so much stock in some stat

[LMITOUT]

Quote:

Making comparisons with athletes past is a popular activity with both the sports media and fans. Following Sunday night's exhibition loss in San Francisco, the topic in Minnesota remained Christian Ponder and what he will bring as the Vikings quarterback in his third season.

There was an e-mail after the game from a long-time Vikings follower that said: "Ponder reminds me of Rich Gannon when he first played for the Vikings ... a good athlete who didn't have the strongest arm and was erratic with his throws.''

When I arrived at Hubbard headquarters early Monday afternnon and entered the hub of activity that is "prep room'' for 1500ESPN, Phil Mackey said: "I've come up with a comparsion for Ponder?''

"Rich Gannon?'' I said.

"Joey Harrington,'' Mackey replied.

I'm guessing that Vikings fans would prefer the e-mailed suggestion of Gannon over Harrington, the No. 3 overall pick in 2002, and the worst of all the selections made by Matt Millen in his horrendous run as the football boss of the Detroit Lions.

Trouble is, the Gannon comparsion is hard to make with Ponder, who enters his third season with 26 NFL starts and with a continued commitment from General Manager Rick Spielman that he is the Vikings' answer at quarterback.

Spielman is almost required to feel that way, since he used the No. 12 overall selection on Ponder in 2011.

The accusation at the time was Spielman had reached substantially to take a quarterback with an erratic history at Florida State. It looks even more like a reach today, when considering that the next two quarterbacks taken in that draft were Andy Dalton by Cincinnati and Colin Kaepernick by San Francisco with the third and fourth choices in the second round. (OUCH!)

Gannon was a fourth-rounder taken by New England in 1987. The Patriots wanted to convert the 6-foot-3, 210-pounder from Delaware to running back. Gannon wanted a shot at quarterback, Vikings CEO Mike Lynn had been talking him up (privately) before the draft, and Minnesota traded for him.

Gannon had to wait until 1990, his fourth season, to get a chance to play regularly. If Ponder doesn't pick it up in 2013, he might not make it to a fourth season in Minnesota.

Gannon wound up crossways with coach Dennis Green, was traded by the Vikings to Washington in August 1993, overcame shoulder surgery and wound up as the NFL's MVP for Oakland in 2002 at age 37.

Maybe that will be Ponder a dozen years from now. Right now, the Mackeyiism seems more realistic: Ponder = Harrington.

Harrington started 12 games as a rookie in 2002 and all 16 in 2003. Ponder started 10 in 2011 and the 16 regular-season games in 2012.

Ponder's ratio of 31 touchdown passes to 25 interceptions has been subpar. His quarterback ratings of 70.1 and 81.2 and his passing average of 177 yards per game also have been supbar by today's standards.

Then again, Harrington threw 29 touchdowns and 38 interceptions in his first two seasons, he had quarterback ratings of 59.9 and 63.9, and his passing average was 171 yards.

I don't see Ponder as a guy who spends 18 seasons in the NFL, throws for 4,689 yards as a 37-year-old and becomes the MVP. And, I don't think we can accuse him of being the second coming of Joey Harrington, either.

If you just go by the eyeball test, my comparison for Ponder is Tarvaris Jackson, but I don't have the numbers to prove it. Jackson started only 14 games his first two seasons. He then started two games to open the 2008, then was benched in favor of veteran Gus Frerotte.

Now, if we see Ponder on the sideline and veteran Matt Cassel starting the home opener vs. Cleveland on Sept. 22, then I win the comparison contest.

--PATRICK JAMES REUSSE

[CaptainMusky]

Are Ryan, Bradford, stafford, and favre garbage qbs? Since they comprise over 10 percent of the occurrences (some multiple times) on the referenced list and by most accounts many would consider these guys franchise qbs I think that in of itself makes the stat suspect.

How about flipping that scenario on its ear? Flynn set team single game records for tds, yards etc and had a tremendous qbr, I believe it was a perfect score.

Where is he now? Oh that's right he's third string on the Oakland raiders for crying out loud and he isn't even on the "list of garbage qbs". Its laughable.

[Big Dave2]

and look what happened when Webb got the snaps...

That's because he is the only QB in the league worse than Ponder.

Pretty sure some HOF QB's had a 3 win season out of the gate...or maybe even worse.

You're predicting Hall Of Fame status for Ponder? LOL!

Sure are a lot of grass is always greener folks here.

So if the team starts 5-3 and his QB rating is 50 then what do you do?

Get rid of him if there was an opportunity to upgrade. A QB with a 50 rating would be a liability and although there may be a chance to get lucky during the regular season and pull out a few wins with a solid defense and a great running game, you will NEVER get away with that in the play-offs.

[LMITOUT]

Are Ryan, Bradford, stafford, and favre garbage qbs? Since they comprise over 10 percent of the occurrences (some multiple times) on the referenced list and by most accounts many would consider these guys franchise qbs I think that in of itself makes the stat suspect.

How about flipping that scenario on its ear? Flynn set team single game records for tds, yards etc and had a tremendous qbr, I believe it was a perfect score.

Where is he now? Oh that's right he's third string on the Oakland raiders for crying out loud and he isn't even on the "list of garbage qbs". Its laughable.

At this point I'm seriously doubting you have seen Ponder play a down in the NFL.

Credibility = dead.

[CaptainMusky]

Should have known that would come from reusse. What a complete and utter blowhard that waste of space is. I would value someone's opinion if they actually played the game. Only thing I would value his opinion on is donuts.

[DTro]

....and then play the QB duck duck goose game for another decade.

and I NEVER compared him to a HOFer, but is obvious you cannot pass judgement on the first couple years of a career like most are doing here.

I don't see Ponder as a guy who spends 18 seasons in the NFL, throws for 4,689 yards as a 37-year-old and becomes the MVP. And, I don't think we can accuse him of being the second coming of Joey Harrington, either.

is what I'm trying to say

[LMITOUT]

Should have known that would come from reusse. What a complete and utter blowhard that waste of space is. I would value someone's opinion if they actually played the game. Only thing I would value his opinion on is donuts.

Yep. Paul Allen is MUCH better.

[CaptainMusky]

....and then play the QB duck duck goose game for another decade.

and I NEVER compared him to a HOFer, but is obvious you cannot pass judgement on the first couple years of a career like most are doing here.

I don't see Ponder as a guy who spends 18 seasons in the NFL, throws for 4,689 yards as a 37-year-old and becomes the MVP. And, I don't think we can accuse him of being the second coming of Joey Harrington, either.

is what I'm trying to say

I agree.

[LMITOUT]

Oh, so you agree with Reusse now?

[Scott K]

I would be all in for giving Ponder the benefit of the doubt, but his mechanics suck, his dancing feet, with no pocket awareness, when you have to wind up, and run forward, and put the ball 100 feet high, to get the ball 30 yards, then you dont hold on to the QB for very long. If the player had the basics of a good QB, and showed promise, give him a chance. By game 3, Cassel will be in. There is no way they keep him in for the home game, he will be boo'd off the field.

[CaptainMusky]

Oh, so you agree with Reusse now?

never said I disagreed with him just don't value his opinion at all.

I have a feeling the pack will start 0-3. Then the division will be wide open.

[JosMN]

Wide open? How do you figure? When the queens lose to the Lions and Bears the first two games......thought you had more knowledge and knew they were both in the NFC north....

Yep I'm trolling and loving it....popcorn please.

[Shack]

Seriously, Ponder will fail. Just watch. He will fail!

On another team who knows? But as a Viking he will flirt with the idea of a career in the Canadian league after he struggles here for a couple seasons. Ponder will not get us past what he shelled out last year. These are the QB's of the Vikings minus the Brett F ordeal.

Only reason he is still with us is because he bailed last year knowing if he blew the season he would be gone so why not let Webb take the fall/blame?

I could always win the Power Ball so yes the Vikes could win a championship this season but just like my odds/averages of winning the Power Ball any time soon the odds/averages would say the Vikes pooch it up again this year like they always have.

Hope is like dope when it comes to the Vikings.

[Big Dave2]

How many teams are in the league?

Quote:

Jaws QB rankings: Christian Ponder No. 27

July, 3, 2013

I've been playing catchup on Ron Jaworski's annual preseason quarterback rankings, which began last month on "SportsCenter" and "NFL Live," while looking for the corresponding video. That's not going to happen because of NFL digital video rights, but I can now bring to you the next-best thing.

Allie Stoneberg of ESPN's communications office is posting transcriptions of Jaworski's comments on ESPN's MediaZone page. As a result, you can see that Minnesota Vikings quarterback Christian Ponder received the No. 27 overall ranking (out of 32).

[+] EnlargeChristian Ponder

Bruce Kluckhohn/USA TODAY Sports

What the Vikings need from Christian Ponder this season is more consistent performance.

That's one spot higher than last season's rankings, but I don't think it represents material change in Jaworski's assessment. After all, the No. 26 quarterback this year is the Cleveland Browns' Brandon Weeden, who will be challenged for the starting job by Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer.

Here's a portion of Jaworski said about Ponder:

"The arrow is pointing upward as Ponder begins his third season as the Vikings starter.

"Ponder fits the profile so many are now talking about: the athletic movement quarterback who can beat you with his legs. Ponder is an opportunity runner, and he's shown the ability to burn some of the best defenses in the league.

"Ponder needs to make significant improvements as a pocket passer. Surprisingly, with Adrian Peterson in the backfield, he was not efficient off play-action. Ponder also had a tendency to be a beat late with his throws. At this point, he doesn't see the whole field with clarity and that led to too many throws into the teeth of the coverage.

"And he must execute versus the blitz much better than he did in 2012.

"You know what statistic really bothered me? Ponder had only 28 completions of 20 yards or more -- by far the fewest of any 16-game starter. I saw one in Week 17 that I really liked. It was a shot play, first-and-10 play-action out of base personnel.

"Overall, I like Ponder's skillset. He has plus arm strength with the ability to make every single throw. The Vikings have now provided Ponder with more weapons on the outside. [The 2013 season] is an important season for the third-year quarterback. It's time to play more consistently from the pocket. If Ponder does that, he could well be in my top 20 next year."

Wow! The top 20? Talk about being darned by faint praise….

Let's provide some specifics on what Jaworski referenced. Ponder threw the second-most play-action passes in the NFL last season (165), according to ESPN Stats & Information. He passed for half of his season total of touchdown passes (nine of 18) on such throws. But he also threw four interceptions and took eight sacks, finishing with an 88.2 passer rating and a 63.2 Total Quarterback Rating overall in play-action.

Both figures are above average, but to Jaworski's point, you would hope them to be sparkling considering Peterson's presence.

As we discussed last month, Ponder took a sharp turn last year that left an overall impression of a poor season. He was one of the NFL's 10 most efficient quarterbacks in the first four and final four games, but in between he was one of its worst. His most important goal for 2013, in my view, is to even out his play to give the Vikings a more reliable accounting of what he can do over the long term.

Look for the rest of the NFC North's rankings in the upcoming weeks.

[DTro]

Only reason he is still with us is because he bailed last year knowing if he blew the season he would be gone so why not let Webb take the fall/blame?

SMH