APR 2013?

[B. Amish]

surprised no one has said mn used to be #1 in the record book yet.

[MUSKY18]

So TruthWalleys....you are saying the only place that you are able to shoot large, mature bucks with big racks is if you pay for a high fence hunt? Seriously? That's just complete and utter nonsense.

[MUSKY18]

Purple....if you are going to quote the article, quote it all, not just the parts that you can get to work for your argument. How bout this:

protect immature bucks to give them a chance to reach physical maturity.

The article states that most bucks begin breeding as yearlings. So if you are blasting all the young deer, you are blasting your breeding stock. Yeah you want to see the big boys pass on their genetics, but while Mr Big Boy is locked down with one doe, and there are 15 other does that are in esterus, the yearlings and younger bucks are sneaking in the back door to breed those does. Shooting younger bucks doesn't do good for anyone. Let em grow.

[PurpleFloyd]

This is fun argument to read, great to see the differing view points!

I may be missing something, and am definitely no expert on the subject, but why are all the nay-sayers so convinced they won't be able to kill a deer if APR is put into their area?

[B. Amish]

The article states that most bucks begin breeding as yearlings. So if you are blasting all the young deer, you are blasting your breeding stock. Yeah you want to see the big boys pass on their genetics, but while Mr Big Boy is locked down with one doe, and there are 15 other does that are in esterus, the yearlings and younger bucks are sneaking in the back door to breed those does. Shooting younger bucks doesn't do good for anyone. Let em grow.

that makin a no sense.

genes don't change with age.

[PurpleFloyd]

Purple....if you are going to quote the article, quote it all, not just the parts that you can get to work for your argument. How bout this:

protect immature bucks to give them a chance to reach physical maturity.

The article states that most bucks begin breeding as yearlings. So if you are blasting all the young deer, you are blasting your breeding stock. Yeah you want to see the big boys pass on their genetics, but while Mr Big Boy is locked down with one doe, and there are 15 other does that are in esterus, the yearlings and younger bucks are sneaking in the back door to breed those does. Shooting younger bucks doesn't do good for anyone. Let em grow.

First off- the idea that every young buck gets blasted is just wrong. Show me one single data set that shows that there has ever been an entire or even a significant number of any particular year class taken out with the current regulations. If you look at the PDF from the DNR on the harvest for 2012, a significant amount of the state falls into the category of .1-1.6 deer harvested per square mile. Now, to take that statistic alone and understand that with an estimated population that over the years has been in the 1 million range and the annual harvest of all deer ranging in the 150-200 thousand range and that means there are generally 80% of the deer left after the season is over.

80%.

I have not been able to find the chart that shows the estimated breakdown of does to bucks but that means 20% of the total is harvested and for every yearling deer to get shot that means that pretty much no older bucks or does were taken and if that is the case the next year there would be a buttload of deer that are 2.5 years or older out there and that isn't the case.

And from that QDM article the guy clearly stated that the genetics are there whether it is a large mature buck or a yearling. You don't change the genetics by having the old deer breed. If that were the case then, as I said, let the big ones walk to do the breeding and take the middle sized 4-6 pointers or something rather than hanging them on the wall once they get to that point.

[Bear55]

surprised no one has said mn used to be #1 in the record book yet.

We use to be #1

And MN hunters don't like to shoot as many large bucks as hunters in other states.

[BLACKJACK]

so it took that simple sentence to convince you guys that we need to do different management to the deer herd we currently have? thats what we've been saying for the past 4 years and thats what that sentece is saying.

[Jameson]

...I've hunted lottery zones in Central MN and some years you're lucky to even see a deer in shooting range...

If in the low deer population areas of the state, particularly Southwest MN, where some years you're lucky to even see a deer, how cool would it be to see three or four small bucks during the duration of the hunt that would have been shot by someone else at the crack of dawn opener morning? Even if you couldn't shoot them, wouldn't it be better than what we have now, where you don't see any?

[Bear55]

so it took that simple sentence to convince you guys that we need to do different management to the deer herd we currently have? thats what we've been saying for the past 4 years and thats what that sentece is saying.

flipper

No, to me that sentence says: "Be happy with what you have and quit your constant whining about needing bigger horns".

Bingo, thats exactly the way I read it.

To me is says we are mistreating our herd, first by targeting too many young bucks for decades and then later on after qdm by targeting too many does and watching the population crash in some areas. A good balance is needed, shooting a pile of young bucks is just as dumb as shooting every doe you see in an area. A nice balance would be perfect but the DNR can't do a perfect job and most hunters are too dumb to monitor their own herds. So we are stuck with this nice little tug of war.

[TruthWalleyes]

So TruthWalleys....you are saying the only place that you are able to shoot large, mature bucks with big racks is if you pay for a high fence hunt? Seriously? That's just complete and utter nonsense.

Of course it is nonsense, because that is not what i meant.

Horn Porn (What you refer to as mature bucks with big racks, or commonly referred to as "Superior") is shot every year in MN. What you guys are asking for is an increased opportunity to achieve Horn Porn. So you can hang that Horn Porn on the wall.

The rest of us are quite happy hunting deer...Just Deer.

So, if you want to increase your odds and satisfy your horn porn needs, go do a fenced in hunt... Otherwise, realize how good we've got it. Deer hunting is great! I don't need big horns to make it better. I do my best each year to make my own hunts better.

[MUSKY18]

[quote=B. Amish

that makin a no sense.

genes don't change with age.

[B. Amish]

The article states that most bucks begin breeding as yearlings. So if you are blasting all the young deer, you are blasting your breeding stock. Yeah you want to see the big boys pass on their genetics, but while Mr Big Boy is locked down with one doe, and there are 15 other does that are in esterus, the yearlings and younger bucks are sneaking in the back door to breed those does. Shooting younger bucks doesn't do good for anyone. Let em grow.

[NoWiser]

I personally could care less about antler point restrictions. I, like Bear55, just want a few deer around to chase, and I'll do my best to find a big one.

But, I can't help but think all of those digging in their heels screaming about APRs have never had a chance to hunt in an area where QDM was practiced. I think if they did, they may not think it is such a terrible idea. For example I hunted all through middle and high school without seeing so much as a buck. I shot a few does, but that was about it. My freshman year of college found me in western Wisconsin with permission to hunt 120 acres surrounded for a few miles on each side with QDM signs. I never heard of it before then. My first evening in the stand I saw a little raghorn 8 pointer and almost crapped my pants. I never got a shot off at it, but I was so excited I had to call my dad to tell him all about it. I continued to hunt as often as I possibly could. I saw bucks fighting, single bucks chasing multiple does, multiple (up to 4) bucks chasing single does. I rattled in bucks on 3 seperate occasions. I was having so much fun I didn't even think about shooting the small bucks. Heck, I didn't want my season to end! Archery season culminated with me stalking a 180"+ buck absolutely demolishing a sapling. At 40 yards a basket 8 point that was bedded down out of sight busted me and took the big guy with him. I never took a deer that season, but when I looked back at my records I realized that not even a single time did I hunt and NOT see a buck of some kind that entire season. What a blast! After that the landowner's nephew started hunting and I lost permission. I couldn't get on anybody elses land in the area so had to hunt some public land about 1/2 hour away. While still fun, it was nothing compared to that land in the QDM area.

For me, QDM isn't necessarily just about bigger antlers, it's about having a better hunt as a whole, with more buck activity. But, like I said, I doubt anyone would believe me or understand if they haven't experienced it for themselves.

That said, I don't believe it's necessarily the government's job to to make laws to produce more big deer. I think the hunting community as a whole can slowly move this way, and I think it is. (I just hope people are doing it for the right reasons, and not just so they can shoot a big buck and scream "Big Buck Down Baby" while fist pumping, call all of their friends and so they can yell in their phones about how they "SMOKED HIM", and update their profile picture before they even have it field dressed.)

As for me, the enjoyment I get out of hunting in Minnesota now comes from finding areas where big public land bucks exist, and other hunters do not. This means hunting big woods areas where I'm lucky to see 2 or 3 deer in 10 hard days of hunting. But, I love it. APRs would not affect the areas I hunt, so I really could care less about it either way. I guess in conclusion I really am not pro or anti APR. And, I'm not really sure this long post of mine even has a point. I guess I'll hit submit anyways..... Good luck to everyone this fall! I hope you all find the buck (or doe) you are looking for.

[Bear55]

Good post NoWiser, hits home with me. Especially the bigwoods and finding locations you don't see other hunters.

[MOSSY]

You say 60 percent of zone three hunters are in favor of APR but only 4000 people were asked why doesn't the DNR ask everyone that purchases a license if they would be in favor of it. they do it with hip certification. then they would have an accurate percentage instead of just a chosen few to make it look good

[B. Amish]

But, I can't help but think all of those digging in their heels screaming about APRs have never had a chance to hunt in an area where QDM was practiced.

wrong.

[tfran123]

Agreed, nowiser has made some solid statements . . .

I'm pro-APR but anti government involvement (voluntary is ideal) but doesn't work - no different than fishing. And there to a few ruin it for all, pretty simple really so APR in it's current state is better than many alternatives.

If you're a meat hunter, more power to ya, got no issues w/that. I do love however the guys that say they just throw the racks away, that's going a bit far for most people. Did you enjoy the memory of shooting the buck? I would think so. When I catch an 8 lb walleye is all I see is two big fillets or is there more to it?

The TV shows have added a negative side to APR however and some of the heritage, family involvement, etc. are lost on these clowns.

[tfran123]

And you'd be the minority . . .but entitled to your opinion.

[TruthWalleyes]

You say 60 percent of zone three hunters are in favor of APR but only 4000 people were asked why doesn't the DNR ask everyone that purchases a license if they would be in favor of it. they do it with hip certification. then they would have an accurate percentage instead of just a chosen few to make it look good

Because the DNR somehow made these 4,000 surveys cost $30,000.00

Too much funding going to AIS wash stations and weed dumpsters to survey more apparently.

[MOSSY]

and I can't help but think those in favor of it have never sat all season and only saw one deer all season.

[TruthWalleyes]

I personally could care less about antler point restrictions. I, like Bear55, just want a few deer around to chase, and I'll do my best to find a big one.

But, I can't help but think all of those digging in their heels screaming about APRs have never had a chance to hunt in an area where QDM was practiced. I think if they did, they may not think it is such a terrible idea.

Seems you've changed your views a bit since last year, but looks to be because you are taking it upon yourself to go find your deer. Sounds very rewarding indeed.

I have hunted QDM - APR areas last several years as well as SC & SW MN Lottery zones, even Northern MN Intensive Harvest zones. In these SW MN areas where it is claimed to have low deer populations, one of them i hunt, i cannot believe the amount of deer i see...However i am getting sweaty and going deep into the many public lands and finding them.

I do love your statement about the facebook update...

[MOSSY]

it doesn't cost the DNR anything to have the license agency ask one simple question WOULD YOU BE IN FAVOR OF APR'S WHERE YOU HUNT?

[TruthWalleyes]

I would be in support of the DNR requiring all bucks that are registered to first have their antlers measured and points counted for data collection.

Put some facts on the table.

[TruthWalleyes]

it doesn't cost the DNR anything to have the license agency ask one simple question WOULD YOU BE IN FAVOR OF APR'S WHERE YOU HUNT?

They sent me the survey 3x...Honestly, I never filled it out. Pis*ed me off too much.