Mancave Electrical Problem

[pushbutton]

First off have no real clue about electrical anything other than plug stuff in, as well as no diagnostic equipment. Just asking this really as a safety issue. Problem possibly could have started when using a vacuum cleaner....it suddenly went dead. Checked the circuit box, and saw a tripped breaker, but not realated to where the vaccum cleaner was plugged in. Flipped the breaker back on, it still does not work, and now apparently one other circuit is completely dead without a tripped breaker, and others are allowing running low draws, but not higher ones. Am sure there could be multiple possibilities, will be calling tomorrow, but any one have an ideas concerning if my hut could be in danger of fire if leaving stuff like the fridge/freezer plugged in overnight or possibly longer while I try to find someone to fix it.

[DTro]

Any other dead outlets? I would look for a tripped GFCI somewhere maybe.

[pushbutton]

Did that and got one reset with some more lights working, another is stuck in the pressed in position, dead, but not tripped.....is this a tell tale sign it is shot? could that make the rest of the circuits do funny things? This is starting to get serious, just lost my tv and computer

[highlife4me]

Sounds like you may have a loose connection in an outlet box. I would start testing outlets with a meter to help pinpoint the problem.

[pushbutton]

Ok, so replaced the other GFI....that outlet along with a whole other bunch are still shot. Also went out and picked up the meter thingy, that I reallly dont know how to use, but tested for volts and found some reading 123 ish and most others not really reading much...a bunch of single digit blips. I kind of already knew these were not working properly because earlier i used a space heater to check them. They barely ran the low setting and would not run the high. Most lights work, along with the fridge, microwave. A couple lights do not work, but suspect they are tied into the non working outlets. Well, stove, and water heater are also a no go.

If it were a loose connection from an outlet how do you go about testing for it other than, just start pulling them all out?

[CAMAN]

Bring in a pro. It could be a loose neutral, which are very dangerous and can start fires.

[Finns]

If you can, turn every breaker off and then back on. I had one that tripped but didn't show like it had. Some circuits may have more than one breaker per circuit.

Make sense?

[delcecchi]

More than one breaker per circuit? Not sure what you mean by that.

[Finns]

Old house/garage had 220 circuit with two 110 breakers. I know it doesn't really apply to this situation but just a thought for future problems.

[McGurk]

I am not an electrician, so take my advice with a grain of salt:

Is this mancave in the basement or garage? If so, look at every possible GFI outlet in the entire house and on every level, especially bathrooms and in the ENTIRE basement. It was acceptable (back in the 80's) to have your garage and other outdoor circuits on the load side of a GFI outlet in a required location, and mine is currently in an upstairs guest bathroom. My garage, master bathroom, and outdoor outlets will all stop working if the GFI in the guest bath gets tripped. This is not the breaker in the box, but the GFI outlet. Wiring this way isn't acceptable now, but it was back then (apparently).

There was a post here a while back where there was a GFI outlet in a garage was covered up with pegboard and forgotten about until it tripped, which cut power to all of the rest of the outlets which were on the load side of the GFI. It involved a lot of looking to find it, but just finding it and resetting it was all it took to fix.

[pushbutton]

Finns is actually kind of right, there are 3 different 220's piggy backed with singles, dont think it is part of the issue though. The mancave is 600 sqr ft stand alone building that is remnant of an old hippie commune where the construction methods would basically be considered advanced fort building. Am hoping the gfi is the issue, although I did replace one, it was one just laying around and might also be shot, but McGurk and Finns actually did get me thinking maybe the breaker that originally tripped might be shot even though it goes back in place without retripping. It is possible the other gfi in question in question is part of that curcuit.

[delcecchi]

Old house/garage had 220 circuit with two 110 breakers. I know it doesn't really apply to this situation but just a thought for future problems.

They didn't know to buy those dual breakers that are connected together?

Oh wow, man.

[Finns]

They didn't know to buy those dual breakers that are connected together?

Oh wow, man.

Look at what state I'm from!

[low277]

When you where testing voltage, did you check from hot to neutral, hot to ground, or both? You may be able to identify if the neutral is the problem by checking hot to ground. If you have 115 volts nominal from hot to ground but little to no voltage from hot to neutral it would indicate a neutral problem.

Also, check the incoming power into the garage. Check from each hot to neutral, each hot to ground and from hot to hot.

Confirm that you have 115 volts form hot to neutral or ground, and 230 volts from hot to hot.

good luck.

[jeffreyd]

Knowing a bit about electrical, here is my advise coming straight from a couple of your own posts. One you said you do not know much about electrical except to plug things in. Second the meter "thingy" is either a digital volt meter or some other type of meter. With this said, not knowing how to read it could cause you real problems. You have to understand that you are working with the correct voltage and amps. My suggestion is to have a professional electrician look into it. The last thing any of us want (speaking for the group here) is for you to grab a loose hot and hurt yourself, your family, or burn your house down. Some things should be left to the pro's. You may be able to switch out a bad receptacle, but when it comes to hard troubleshooting, shy away. The biggest thing you have to remember is LOTO, Lock out Tag out. Lock out the circuit you are working on so someone does not come in and light you up unexpectedly. Good luck

[hydro]

Good advice Jeffrey

[soldoncass]

Get a professional to look at it. You said a few things that make me think the problem may be the line coming in to your house...or a problem in your ckt breaker box. Either is a professional expert's area. NSP would probably check the line coming in for you (could be only 110 volts instead of 220), gophers have snacked on underground wires before. You mentioned two appliances that don't work(stove and waterheater), they both require 220 to work. I'd start with NSP.

[pushbutton]

Thanks for the concern, and practical advice, but sometimes I am a little thick headed and like a challenge .....plus this is a good way to learn Atfer doing some googling, youtubing, phone calling.....I learned how to use that "thingy" better and found a pattern forming on the good and bad circuits, and after taking some of the breakers out found that because the way the box was comfigured all the circuits that were bad were from the feed on one side of the box . So I am assuming one of the two hot wires or neutral coming into the house is wonky. Now as thick headed as I am, it is finally beyond my scope and did have to call, but at least I now know what the issue is and not concerned about it burning down, and will not be taken advantage of by an electrician I do not know......the two I do know are out working in Nodack. Should have my mancave back running mid next week!!!

[pushbutton]

Get a professional to look at it. You said a few things that make me think the problem may be the line coming in to your house...or a problem in your ckt breaker box. Either is a professional expert's area. NSP would probably check the line coming in for you (could be only 110 volts instead of 220), gophers have snacked on underground wires before. You mentioned two appliances that don't work(stove and waterheater), they both require 220 to work. I'd start with NSP.

Looks like we have a winner .....low277 was also on the money, just didn't know what he was talking about till now Thanks to everyone.....cool to see all the people trying to help others out on all the various threads on this site.

[jeffreyd]

Nothing worse than getting bit in the morning by something you cant see and ending up in the hospital. No matter how "thick headed" we all are, the most important thing is to lock out whatever you are working on. Bad deal to be playing with a circuit and have a kid come in cause it is dark and there you go all lit up. Probably an easy fix but sometimes the easy ones are the worse.

[pushbutton]

Again, thanks for your concern......for the record have shut off the individual circuits when looking at then, and the main board when playing with that........ and at no time did I have my kid helping with the diagnostics Just because I profess not to know much about electrical systems just means I am not that familiar with them.....it does not mean I have proceed with this with reckless abandoned. Just trying to have some fun and learn something here. We all can't know everything, and if you do not know....sure makes sense to me to ask. Yes, it is electricity; yes, it is dangerous, but it is not quantum physics either. I drove about 4 hours roundtrip today to go fishing, and in my opinion, the odds of harming my self on that trip was probably as much or greater as what I did playing with the "thingy" ....... and have no intentions of not fishing because of the risk of having to drive to do it.

Having said that, and since the electrician can't get there till wed, and since that It is an old hippie commune with a non traditional electrical configuration, and for the sake of learning more......I also have the ability to shut off the power on a private meter/junction about 50 ft from the house and do a little more digging So to Soldencass, low277, or anyone else........since I do have minimal power(4.5 amps) on the down circuits/ bad feed.....what would be your next best guess? The incoming lines are all above ground and accessible.

[soldoncass]

Since the wires are ABOVE GROUND, I believe it is a connection somewhere, that may be corroded(at least not a good connection). Every connection on that line could be suspect.

[delcecchi]

How about plugging something that draws a couple amps in the far end of the circuit, like a lamp or two, and measuring voltage as you go from segment to segment? It should be almost the same as you proceed, since the load is at the far end. That might point out a bad connection.

[low277]

Since the wires are ABOVE GROUND, I believe it is a connection somewhere, that may be corroded(at least not a good connection). Every connection on that line could be suspect.

I agree with soldoncass, I have seen overhead wire connections come loose and cause similar conditions.

[Whoaru99]

Several years back something similar happened at my parent's house. A loose connection developed where one wire of the service drop cable was crimped to one of the service entrance wires.

Mom called me one day asking if I could check the oven becuase it was making some of the lights dim a lot when she turned it on. Checked the panel and found that when the oven was on there was only ~60V L-N on one leg. Since that was right at the main lugs the problem had to be in the meter box, which is sealed/locked, or in the service drop.

Called the city utility and they found a bad splice up by the service entrance mast head where the two systems join. Once I actually looked at it in that detail you could see the insulation around that one connection was melted.

[pushbutton]

Hmmmm....think I found the problem....lol. Now off to the store to figure out how to connect these wires......thanks guys!