Outdated Laws

[fwp]

I have been pondering the many laws that seem to be outdated and meaningless. Here is one that irritates me somewhat and I would like to hear what others think. I have been hunting ducks for 46 consecutive years and have a deep passion for chasing bluebills around the Ontario side of Lake of the Woods. Question: Why do we still need a plug in our shotguns to limit our shotgun to only 3 shells. Granted I understand why the law was put in place back in the market hunting days but given todays ridged bag limits and the use of steel shot it seems unnecessary. Many times with steel shot you need to kill cripples immediately when they hit the water. With steel it seems to be a great deal more difficult that with lead. I am a fair wing shot and do not take long shots and mostly shoot close over decoys but on occassion I will have a cripple. It would seem plausable that by allowing additional shells in your shotgun it could help with reduction of cripples. No matter how many shells you have in your shotgun you still can't shoot over your limit. I don't believe that by allowing additional shells more people would harvest limits thereby increasing the number of ducks harvested legally. They did'nt stop the technology when it came to fishing and locaters that show everything except if they are hungry or not! Anyway I am interested in other duck hunters perspective on this issue. Thanks

[Guest]

I guess there would probably be an increase in cripples leading to higher mortality not included in bag limits. There would be those that empty their gun whether it be 3 shots or 5 or 8 on birds past theirs and their loads range. The odds of going over limit could quickly increase when 2 or 3 drop 100yds out after one of those big flocks of bills flies through. I would also guess limits aren't based on the fact that every hunter could take 6 birds every time out. I would also guess it is kind of like the reasoning that probably goes into amount of lines in the water for fishing versus impact on the fisheries. I shoot an over and under occasionally and I miss not having that third shot for cripples or on that one bird that hangs up there when goose hunting. Don't get me wrong I'd love to load 5 rounds into the SX2. With the 2 goose limit I've had days where after all the work of setting up an early pair comes in and bang bang done. Time to grab the camera and shoot pics!!

I would like to see layout hunting legalized but I suppose that too would add just that much more pressure.

How about some Swans and Sandhills? I see more of them than I do Doves!Perhaps work at having simpler waterfowl regs that aren't so open to interpretation. Get rid of the 4 pm closure to allow more opprotunity. Isn't it legal to shoot a deer 1/2 hour after sunset but you have to quit at sunset for waterfowl?

[This message has been edited by bemduckboy (edited 08-19-2004).]

[BLACKJACK]

So how long does it take you to reach in your pocket and get another shell and load it? Three seconds? It takes me that long to figure out whether that down duck needs another shot. And I don't hesitate to shoot cripples, it saves alot of dog work.

I think Bemduckboy hit it on the head, its the same with only one line in the water, I've also heard the argument 'a limit is a limit', well two lines will help you get there sooner, so will having more shells in your gun. Those times when you only see two flocks of ducks, if you shoot three out of each flock instead of two, you've increased you duck kill.

The only place where I could see unplugged shotguns would be during the early goose season, they want you to shoot more geese, so why not let you have 5 shells? They do it for the season on snow geese!

[TV BOY]

AMEN to the unpluged guns for early goose!

[Mark Christianson]

fwp
I believe you when you say you are a fair wing shot, and try to take shots close in over decoys.
If we let people load up with 5 shells in their guns, it isn't probably you that will cause problems.
Its the slob hunters and the inexperienced hunters that are going to cause greater problems.
Simply because they have a flock come in, and you know what is going to happen?
They are going to unload on that flock of birds in the air, and now what happens?
They have no shells in their gun to dispose of not just possibly 3 cripples on the water. Now they could have 5 cripples on the water. There are going to be a huge percentage of people unloading on the birds flying by. Very few will make a couple quality shots, and make the decision to save a shell or two to finish off a wounded bird on the water.

No way should we have 5 shells for the waterfowl season. Early goose, absolutely 5 would be fine with me.

As with so many rules, they don't fit what "I like", but the rules are there intended to cover holes outside of what you/I think is good or bad.
Its for the greater good in my eyes.

[snowgoose]

If you want to have more shells in your gun. Use two guns. That is legal. I do it for early goose. It is nice for cripples when you have to get out of your blind and chase them down. No loading your gun on the run.
No I don't have a dog.

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Hunt Snow Geese, Save the tundra

[wh1stler]

Always have a extra 10 gauge single shot in the blind to finish off cripples.

wh1stler

[Mark Christianson]

Snowgoose,
I am not so sure about having 2 loaded guns in your blind for one guy.
How positive are you that it is legal?

[Swamp Scooter]

Big lake ba$$,

We contacted the CO on that subject a few years ago and it is legal to do it. We were in WI at the time but it was confirmed. Sounds funny but you are not shooting 2 guns at once. The only time it would be a problem is if you had a person in the blind who did not have a license. Then it is up to interpretation if they were shooting or not.

[Evenflow]

Originally the law did have to do with market hunters and such. But I believe keeping the three shells law has more to do with duck selective harvest than anything else. The idea is that if a group of 5 ducks comes into range they are probably a family group. Since ducks (and especially geese) tend to go back to the same nesting areas year after year (as long as there is no habitat change or loss) there is a chance that if you shoot all the ducks from the group there would not be any ducks to return to that location.

So if the location happens to be a small pot hole that only had one family group on it and they are all taken during hunting season it could be several years before ducks nest back in what could be very good habitat.

I'm not saying I agree with the theory, but I believe that is the reason the law has been kept.

Evenflow

[bdavid1157]

For finishing off cripples I use low base 7-1/2's lots of pellets to hit them in the head. I have never found pellets in the meat and they are CHEAP.

[Lowe]

Low base 7.5's in steel? You pulling our chain or what?

[TV BOY]

yes you can get 7.5 steel. I just picked some up at sportsmans for cripples and doves.

[bdavid1157]

They also have them at Reed's, Fleet Farm, Gander Mountain, and Cabellas. Give them a try. They are the best thing for finishing off cripples.

[Farley]

5 shells? come on.

Not untill the birds start shooting back at us.

I don't buy the "cripples" theory because they arent going to get far before you can load another shell, they are crippled.

On the other hand, if you need 5 shells to kill one duck, you need to go to the range.

There was one time I wish I had more than 3 shells because I hit the dang bird with all 3 shots, the thing wouldnt go down. It was a BIG drake mallard about the size of a goose. But you learn from stuff like that and if that bird can take 3 shots to the a** and keep flyin, he deserved his right to live.

[Nitebiter]

The sunset shooting time shouldnt be changed at all, theres too many stupid people that cant identify ducks and shoot now and sort later, when you think that most of these people hunting the evening probably hunted that morning too its pretty easy to go over your limit on hen mallards or any other duck for that matter.
It wouldnt hurt my feelings if duck season closed at noon every day for the entire season- fact is there would me more ducks around, alot less pothole jumping pressure and nobody would be shootin the roosts in the evening when birds are trying to REST..
Everyone wants their slaughter but nobody stops to think about the bigger picture..
when birds cant find a place that they can rest they keep on moving.

3 shots is also all you need with steel.. by the time most people would be shooting #4 and #5 birds are exiting clean killing range. i think someone else said it and ill say it again- if you cant kill birds with 3 you better go to the range

[bigbucks]

I think it would be good to open it up for the early goose season, since the limit's high & the idea is to kill birds. There's not enough ducks as it is, so I wouldn't be in favor of going "unplugged" for those, although I agree there's not many times it would make a difference.

[snowgoose]

Hey Biglake Ba$$
I have been checked by the CO's while having two loaded guns and they did not say anything.
We should try to meet some time as I also live in Big Lake. I am just off of 43 south of 10.
It might have to wait till after hunting is over now.

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Hunt Snow Geese, Save the tundra